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Author Topic: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
brook_33  4605 posts
Registered: Dec '03
6107_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 7/12/05 10:31am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
i don't believe the jedi knew the story or knowledge of plagueis. palpatine was just using that to make anakin upset that the jedi wouldn't share that knowledge. that's why he said "it's not a story the jedi would tell you." really, that also means the jedi might not know about it.

even if plagueis was around 1,000 years before tpm, if he learned to cheat death then he could have survived long enought to teach his knowledge to his apprentice, palpatine.

 

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Sauron_18  3594 posts
Registered: Apr '05
23547_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 7/12/05 10:53am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Well, as some of you said, there is EU that is very close to the movies, being the one of the novels and books directly related to it. In LOE and ROTS (novel) Plaguesi is mentioned, and in the TPM novel Darth Bane was basically made, so fit it together and this piece of "more official" EU is true.

Still, I dunno why people keep insisting the EU doesnt count, Lucas might have said its a "parallel Universe" but come on, people take time to explain a universe that fits with this movies, you dont just disregard it

 

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darth-sinister  43577 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
 Registered: Jun '01
24181_Palpatine Hologram
Date Posted: 7/12/05 11:07am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Because at one point Lucas said it didn't count. Another is that they don't want to read a book. Heaven forbid that they bury their nose in a book.

It's official, no matter how you slice it, Plaugies was Palaptine's Master.

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/12/05 11:39am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Well since we're on the subject of Bane, think about this for a minute...if Bane was the one that created the "rule of two" then that would mean that he WASNT the last known sith. (based on Yoda's comments about there being only two) So if Plagueis did have the secret to cheat death and the jedi knew about him (even if they didnt beleive he had this power) then it's very possible that HE was the last known sith lord.

And this scenario fits in better with the movies (remember the EU states that Bane remained hidden "in the shadows WITHOUT the jedi knowing about it" and trained an apprentice, who trained an apprentice, and so on....but this doesnt gel to good with the movies though, two facts (that were stated in the films) gives us just enough info to figure out exactly what the jedi know about the sith....one was that the jedi KNOW about the rule of two, so this just basically "invalidates" that EU story about Bane hiding out in the shadows and creating a rule of two, and the other fact was Ki-Adi's statement about the sith being extinct for a millenium, this lets us know that the "last known sith lord was beleived to have lived a millenia before TPM".

Take those two facts and try to put together this sith puzzle...Bane created the rule of two, so him or his apprentice probably wasnt the last known sith lords, the Plagueis story (IMO) was not a "sith only" story because there is no way that Sidious could have known for sure what Anakin was going to do with that information, I think Plagueis WAS known of by the jedi, and it's even possible that HE is the last known sith lord.(even if the jedi dont believe in his power). So from what I can take away from the story is that Bane created the "well known rule of two" BEFORE the sith were exterminated, the sith were not believed to be extinct, but they did hide in the shadows away from the jedi.....rumors of a sith power to "create/extend life" were floating around, but were basically forgotten or disregarded because they eventually believe the sith lord and master to be dead (either they thought they killed them or found evidence...who knows) but Plagueis (whether he was the apprentice or master doesnt matter) lived on during that "millenium of extinction".

Now the question that comes up is, was Darth Plagueis the ONLY sith master living through that exile time and took on ONE apprentice (who would be Sidious) OR was Sidious part of the Plagueis lineage?

 

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Sauron_18  3594 posts
Registered: Apr '05
23547_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 7/12/05 11:41am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Actually, I remember I read somewhere or heard in TPM, Yoda or Mace saying that they believed the Sith to follow the rule of two, they didnt know for sure, they just guessed that would be the only way for them to remain hidden. The Jedi thought the Sith were extinct, but they still contemplated their existance

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/12/05 11:45am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Sauron_18 posted:
Actually, I remember I read somewhere or heard in TPM, Yoda or Mace saying that they believed the Sith to follow the rule of two, they didnt know for sure, they just guessed that would be the only way for them to remain hidden. The Jedi thought the Sith were extinct, but they still contemplated their existance


talk_hand

No they didnt guess.

They sounded like they were 100% sure that the sith only ran in groups of two.

"Always two there are....no more....no less"

 

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Sauron_18  3594 posts
Registered: Apr '05
23547_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 7/12/05 11:48am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
I'll try to find the exact quote I heard, the last statement you put was in the end.

Still, the rule of two was not completely invented by Bane, in Ruusan he with a female sith were contemplating it, the jedi and sith were still arrive, since the comic is an adaptation its probably shortened, the Jedi could have been informed of Banes intentions there, or figured it out like he did

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/15/05 11:20pm Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
^^You ever find that quote??

 

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darth-sinister  43577 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
 Registered: Jun '01
24181_Palpatine Hologram
Date Posted: 7/15/05 11:41pm Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Darth Bane is the one who invented the rule, as specificed in the novelization for TPM and the TPM visual directory.

 

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JediCouncilMaster  13895 posts
Registered: Jun '05
41983_Sith Symbol
Date Posted: 7/16/05 12:41am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Darth Plagueis was a Sith Lord. However, his apprentice, Darth Sidious, betrayed Plagueis (a common practice among the Sith) and killed him in his sleep, thus becoming the Sith Master himself. Plagueis is sometimes referred to as "Darth Plagueis the Wise", as he found a way to manipulate midi-chlorians to prevent death and create life. Although it is never stated in the movie that Sidious was Plagueis' apprentice, it is included in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith and implied in the film. Palpatine says in the novel that "Darth Plagueis was my master...before I killed him." However, this line was never in the shooting script for the film, and is found purely in the novel.
In Revenge of the Sith, Darth Sidious reveals that the reason Plagueis taught his apprentice was because he was afraid of losing his power. Interestingly, since Plagueis had to spend much time in meditation and self-examination, it is thought by some that he may have been something of a pacifist, or that his power of averting death took a great deal of his strength.
Yes Sidious was really Darth Plagueis' apprentice...

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 10/6/05 3:27pm Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Can somebody post what he's^^^ talking about from the novelization concerning Plagueis and Sidious?

 

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Starwars_1977-1983  1217 posts
Registered: Sep '04
14875_Star Destroyer
Date Posted: 10/6/05 3:41pm Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
For r8hitman :

Rots novelization, pp.281-282 :

"Darth Plagueis was real"

Anakin could force out only a strangled whisper. "Real ...?"

"Darth Plagueis was my Master. He taught me the key to his power," the shadow said, dryly matter-of-fact, "before I killed him."


p.339 :

"I want your power. I want the power to stop death"

"That power only my Master truly achieved but together we will find it. The force is strong with you, my boy. You can do anything."

 

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sithrules70  4618 posts
Registered: May '05
16259_Vader
Date Posted: 10/6/05 3:59pm Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
r8hitman

Well like I said before, in order for the jedi to even know of the "legend of Plagueis" that would mean Plagueis was around "at least" a millenia before TPM.




hey r8hitman i dont want to sound offensive but why do u keep bringing this up ?? where the hell did you get from that the jedi knew about the legend of plagueis ?? as far as im concerned palpatine could be the only one who knew it (for being a sith of course).what makes you think that the jedi order even knew that there was a sith lord named Darth Plagueis,they didnt even know of sidious who existed in their timeline....

 
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obi1andreasen79  2200 posts
Registered: Feb '05
19927_Duel
Date Posted: 10/6/05 4:19pm Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Is it at all plausible to think that the line"It's not a story the Jedi would tell you" means that the Jedi don't know about it?

 

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severian28  5693 posts
Registered: Apr '04
24205_Anakin
Date Posted: 10/6/05 5:08pm Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
I think perhaps the most telling thing is that McDiarmid in the film certainly plays the role like Plagueis WAS his master. Im sure the opera scene has been dissected ad nausea in here but I will remind you that when Palpatine is speaking of the irony of Plagueis death, his voice lowers a notch and he smirks. He's speaking to himself more than he's speaking to Anakin.

 

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