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Author	Topic: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
-maynard- Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 4:13pm Subject: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	i've found that a lot of debated issues are inter-connected, always pointing back to the Prophecy and worthy of a thread. i think i've solved them by supposing that the Prophecy in SW is infallible. i will try and be as simple and straight-forward as possible: I will first outline (having taken a few philosophy classes in college and having an old reference in front of me to refresh my memory) the relationships between prophecy and free will. In an infallible prophecy (like one the christian God would proclaim) involves no free will as God cannot be wrong. There can only be free will if the prophecy is fallible or may be fallible. I've arrived at choosing infallibility. heres a qoute i like from TheLightSide in another thread: TheLightSide posted: Stars Wars changed from the 1977-1983 era, from a story about randomness and people using the randomness of the Force to save or control the galaxy, to what it became in... 1999. It became a religious messianic figure story, about a man who would fulfill a Prophecy. i completely agree. whether Lucas originaly had the idea doesnt matter. we know there was a total change. its seems clear to me that there are some messiah paralells. the Force is god-like and seems to have a Will. Heres how it relates: Anakins premonitions. The Chosen One's dreams of future events all come true. thats clear to me that that there is a connection between his dreams and the truth of the prophecy. it lends indirect evidence that if the one Chosen by the Prophecy or Force has dreams that connot be wrong, then the prophecy itself cannot be wrong. i'll put that sentence in reverse and you'll get my meaning even more: if the prophecy itself cannot be wrong, then the [dreams of the] one Chosen by the Prophecy or Force (that) connot be wrong The Padme dream: Anakin's dream must come true of Padmes death. Its also him that causes her death by going to the dark side. the only way Anakin would ever kill her is unless he turned evel. so i say that it was necessary for him to turn Dark in order for him to fulfill his premonition of her death. The Windu/Sidious Duel: Some who think Sidious threw the duel say that the Prophecy prevented Sidious from being killed by anyone except Anakin. i have to say i changed my mind. They are right, but only half-right. Anakin must turn to the dark side(to satisfy the conditions above). so while Anakin is still a Jedi, Sidious cannot be killed. However, once Anakin becomes a Sith, no such restriction on Sidious exists. he can be killed by anyone. Why? Because even if Anakin slays Sidious, the Prophecy is not fulfilled because there is still 1 Sith left, himself. Its really his death that completes it (similar to Jesus). So as far as the duels are concerned, Windu could not kill Sidious, but Yoda could have. Just a matter of timing. In conclusion, i say that even if you disagree, my argument is consistent and of course, dependant on an infallible prophecy. keep in mind that free will and destiny cannot reside with one another. you cant have it both ways: one or the other. What do you think? -----signature----- "Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype (this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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Thulium Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/14/05 5:53pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	I disagree with your philosophy teacher, you can have both Predestination and Free-Will. Here are some thoughts to consider: Swami Nishchalananda Saraswati posted: Ever since they began to think and to question, the problem, or paradox, of freewill versus predestination has always bothered humankind. Research by neurophysiologists Benjamin Libet and Bertram Feinstein at Mount Zion Hospital in San Francisco has thrown interesting light on this subject and has tremendous Spiritual implications. They have shown that 1½ seconds before we decide to move a part of our body, such as a thumb or a finger, our brain has already initiated the signals necessary to accomplish the movement. That is, the muscle movement is already being put into action on an unconscious level before we consciously decide to move. This research seems to suggest that we are programmed to act and that we are all under the thrall of pre-destination. However, this applies only if the ‘I’ is taken to be the visible personality. From the point of view of Yoga, it is a question of identification. If ‘I’ also includes the unconscious mind, and even the Transpersonal Consciousness, as has always been asserted by Yoga and all other mystical sciences, then the ‘I’ actually follows the dictates of Free Will. What we see as a predetermined process, appears so, only because we are only seeing the tip of the ice-berg of the human being (that is, the physical body and the superficial levels of the mind). The purpose of Yoga is to allow us to realise that we are far more than we think we are and, certainly, that we are more than we normally identify with. What is predestination at one level is nothing but freewill on a deeper level. This paradox of freewill versus pre-destination cannot be understood intellectually, but it can be understood in the depths of our Being. For this we need to practise Yoga, especially Meditation. I was just doing a bit of research on the documented views of Predestination vs. Free-Will and found the above quote and several others. There is a concept that you are neglecting by placing Predistination in direct conflict with Free-Will: Synergism. Synergism, I believe, is what Lucas is conveying with the Saga. Destiny and Choice are two seemingly opposed concepts, but Lucas refers to them both. The Will of the Force was that the Chosen One would fulfill his destiny (Predestination) and Return to the Jedi balance to the Force, but the Will of the Sith is that the Chosen One would choose the Revenge of the Sith. In the end, the seemingly opposing forces combined synergistically to fulfill both ends. As I mentioned in the "Did Darth Sidious allow Mace Windu to win the duel?" thread, Destiny and Free-Will are a matter of perspective; so each concept only makes sense from the appropriate point of view. While Free-Will deals exclusively in deciding amongst what you can do, Predestination describes what you will do. From the omniscient point of view we have as viewers of both the original trilogy as well as the prequel trilogy, we already know what Anakin will do. It's a logical fallacy to talk about what might have happened if Anakin had chosen to destroy the Sith in Revenge of the Sith because this would invalidate what we know will happen in the OT. Our "eternal perspective", however, has absolutely no bearing on Anakin's ability to make a decision in the same way that knowing your own past decisions gives you any ability to change those decisions or does it interfere with your ability to make that decision. From the linear point of view of Anakin Skywalker, he did have real choices. One explanation given for Free-Will vs. Destiny is that only certain things are Predestined: Death, for example. All of the choices you make to avoid death are legitimate, but in the end, death is certain. The choices you make in life may have the consequence for avoiding death for a time, but inevitably you will make the choice that ends in your death. This might be a reasonable explanation for the Star Wars saga. The choices that Anakin made had the consequence of avoiding his destiny for a time, but inevitably he would make the choice that fulfills this destiny. -----signature----- "Arent these jedi very good at stuff!?!?! We read that there very good, but they die stinky."
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yoshifett Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 7/14/05 5:55pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	Ah, but it's hard to have "destiny" without some for of determinism, which generally renders free will mute. Unless you bring "God" into it.
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General_Kenobi23 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:04pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	I believe that the force created Anakin to destroy the sith, but it did not take away his free will, it created him, put the paths before him and let him choose which he would take, in this case he took the wrong one, but regardless of what he would choose, it would eventually lead to the same thing, him destroying the sith. So it's kinda both, he had the free will to choose his path, but he was destined to bring balance to the force. -----signature----- Hello There!
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MARCBUIS Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:12pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	thulium posted: The choices that Anakin made had the consequence of avoiding his destiny for a time, but inevitably he would make the choice that fulfills this destiny. Well I think you are right! But I would like to make a comment about the prophecy! Strangely enough Darth Vader and Dart Sids are convinced that they will turn Luke to the dark side. By doing this they would render the prophecy useless for the time being. Also yoda knows after ROTS that the the balancing act needs to wait. As you point out..there is a certain inevitability to this all. And there are certain points in time where all the events lead to the final act of Ani. As long as all the requirements stated in the prophecy, are met it can be done. So what I am trying to say is; it is not only the free will of the person. Also the requirements need to be met for the prophecy to work. As far that I know only in one occasion Vader can actually bring balance to the force. In all the other episodes it isn't an effort of the man himself which could destroy ani and palps. There is one other point which is not really mentioned in the prophecy. This is ofcourse Luke. We should know a bit more about the prophecy to understand why Luke NEEDS to confront Vader. I like to think that one of the requirements of the prophecy is Luke tapping into the light side of Ani. THis is what yoda and ben are counting on, it seems.
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Thulium Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:22pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	MARCBUIS posted: thulium posted: The choices that Anakin made had the consequence of avoiding his destiny for a time, but inevitably he would make the choice that fulfills this destiny. Well I think you are right! But I would like to make a comment about the prophecy! Strangely enough Darth Vader and Dart Sids are convinced that they will turn Luke to the dark side. By doing this they would render the prophecy useless for the time being. Also yoda knows after ROTS that the the balancing act needs to wait. As you point out..there is a certain inevitability to this all. And there are certain points in time where all the events lead to the final act of Ani. As long as all the requirements stated in the prophecy, are met it can be done. So what I am trying to say is; it is not only the free will of the person. Also the requirements need to be met for the prophecy to work. As far that I know only in one occasion Vader can actually bring balance to the force. In all the other episodes it isn't an effort of the man himself which could destroy ani and palps. Anakin could have fulfilled the prophecy in RotS as well. He had already killed half the Sith aboard the Invisible Hand. All he needed to do to kill the other half was give a quick drop-kick to Darth Sidious while he was using the Sith Lightning against Mace Windu (the first time). Fulfilling the Prophecy at that point, however, would invalidate his vision of Padme's death and the alleged Sith prophecy of their Revenge (and insodoing, invalidate the entire Original Trilogy as well). The point is that nothing and noone is responsible for Anakin's fall to the darkside other than Anakin himself. He chose this path willingly. However, from the omniscient and predestined perspective of the 6 film saga, it wouldn't make sense any other way. -----signature----- "Arent these jedi very good at stuff!?!?! We read that there very good, but they die stinky."
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:29pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	Here is what Lucas says about destiny and the Prophecy. "I tried, in my going through mythology, to distill down into certain basic ideas things that seem to exist in a great deal of mythology. Again, to try to find the themes and ideas that continue over a great amount of time and across a wide spectrum of cultures. The Force is a result of that. The Force is the way that many people view the great mysteries of “Is there other realities at work other than the one we can perceive.” I think that the Force represents life—I mean another way to describe it is “life-force.” It’s the spirit of life rather than the physical manifestation of it." --George Lucas, Laserdisc Commentary, Star Wars Trilogy Definitive Collection, 1993 "Ultimately the Force is the larger mystery of the universe. And to trust your feelings is your way into that. It is an issue of quieting your mind so that you can listen to yourself, and as Joe [Campbell] would say, “Follow your bliss.” It’s to follow your talent, is one way to put it. That’s the way I see it. The hardest thing to do when you are young is to figure out what it is you’re going to do, and you’ll never know what it is you’re going to do. But if you follow the things you enjoy… I’m not sure anyone really enjoys making money; they may enjoy what they do after they’ve made it, but they don’t enjoy the process. If you can find something that you actually enjoy in the process, then you have found your bliss. They try to show us our place. Myths help you to have your own hero’s journey, find your individuality, find your place in the world, but hopefully remind you that you’re part of a whole and that you must also be part of the community and think of the welfare of the community above the welfare of yourself." --George Lucas, “The Mythology of Star Wars,” Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001 "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil. The Force itself breaks into two sides: the living Force and a greater, cosmic Force. The living Force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive, and allows you to read other people's minds, etc. But the greater Force has to do with destiny. In working with the Force, you can find your destiny and you can choose to either follow it or not." --George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999 "It's about a young boy leaving his world and going off into the unknown, to a great adventure. [...] Star Wars, carries that story on to what happens after you leave and in this particular case, there's a slightly more classic edge to it, in that the fates are there to kind of help Luke realize that, in certain cases you don't have choices. You know, if you choose not to fight evil, eventually it'll just push you up into the wall and you just don't have a choice. It's an inevitability that you can't escape from. And in this particular case, he torn between what he really wants to do; which is go off and join the academy and fight for the Rebellion and have excitement; but then he's also committed to helping his uncle, and to help his uncle build his farm, and his uncle's raised him, he's like his father, and he has his obligations to help put the homestead together. It's very clear from the beginning here, that Luke's fate, even when the aunt and uncle are talking, is not to stay on the farm. A future that's just not in him, his destiny lies in a grander scheme of things. Even they know that. I mean they know it for other reasons, that we don't know about yet." --George Lucas, ANH DVD Commentary. "What Luke is doing in the beginning of Star Wars is finding his own responsibility for his place in the world. He thinks that his responsibility is with his aunt and uncle, and to do his chores. His ultimate responsibility is much larger than that because it deals with a much larger base of humanity—larger more cosmic issues. He is unwilling to look up and see those as something that relate to him. He’s much more looking at the ground and plodding along in his everyday life. So it’s that awakening, first of all, that is the performed by the insider, the magic of Obi-Wan that sends him on the path to self-discovery." --George Lucas, Laserdisc Commentary, Star Wars Trilogy Definitive Collection, 1993. "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." --George Lucas, “The Mythology of Star Wars,” Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001 "If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is gray. In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces." --George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002 Anakin's vision of Padme's death is, in my opinion, directly related to his actions at the start of ROTS. The Force is telling Anakin that he is on a path to self destruction. He is seeing what will come at the end, but it doesn't show him the path to that end. It just shows him that he will lose everything. The future is always in motion. He fails to keep that in mind, because of what happened to Shmi. He takes it personally that he couldn't save his mother. And in seeing another vision, Anakin is once again propelled into the thick of things. He must try to prevent it, by fighting destiny. But you cannot fight destiny. You can only delay it or alter it. But when it comes to altering the future, it has to be based on the choices you make today. Anakin tries to keep moments frozen in time, but he is only making things worse by doing so. In the case of the Prophecy being right or wrong, it was right. But Anakin's actions throughout ROTS have the Jedi convinced that they could've misread it. That Anakin could become a danger afterall. That he might not even be the Chosen One. Or at best, a Jedi in order to fulfill his destiny. Obi-wan desperately believes that Anakin is the Chosen One and that he will not fail him. But he does. "I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The “phantom menace” refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader—also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct—Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." --George Lucas, Cut Magazine interview, 1999 Ultimately, Anakin does fulfill his destiny. But it comes out of reflection of the mistakes in his life. It comes because he loves his son and will do whatever it takes to stop him from dying. "It really has to do with learning," Lucas says, "Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can't be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he's caused. He doesn't right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the Saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I've grown to love- primarily the Emperor- and throw away my life, to save this person. And I'm doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I've done. I broke his mother's heart, but he still cares about me, and I can't let that die. Anakin is very different in the end. The thing of it is: The prophecy was right. Anakin was the chosen one, and he does bring balance to the Force. He takes the one ounce of good still left in him and destroys the Emperor out of compassion for his son." --George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221 Anakin ultimately accepts that the will of the Force and the way of all things. The way of the Force. Probably made no sense. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Thulium Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:41pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	yoshifett posted: Ah, but it's hard to have "destiny" without some for of determinism, which generally renders free will mute. Unless you bring "God" into it. Hard? Yes. Impossible? No. If "destiny" is simply the eternal point of view, no predetermination is necessary. A certain amount of determinism is conceivable even in a free-will/destiny synergy. Consider for a moment the concept of a "Self Fulfilling Prophecy". Padme's demise is a perfect example of this: Anakin saw a true vision of the future when dreamt of Padme's death. The choices he made, based on that foreknowledge, ironically are the cause of that end. If Anakin hadn't been so desperate to save Padme, he wouldn't have turned to the darkside and broken her heart causing her death. The prophecy itself was the determinate. I think Anakin's destiny to return balance to the Force was also a self-fulfilling Prophecy as well, from a certain point of view. In a nutshell, Skywalker was conceived by the midichlorians to be the only one with the opportunity to defeat the Sith because he was the person Darth Sidious put himself at risk to seduce. Darth Sidious put himself at risk to seduce Anakin because Anakin was conceived by the midichlorians. This is a beautiful example of exactly the type of Synergy I am talking about and the reason why I think that Anakin's conception was done in a synergistic accordance between BOTH the Will of the Sith (either Plagueis or Sidious) and the Will of the Force. P.S. The word is "moot" meaning irrelevant, "mute" means silent. ;-P -----signature----- "Arent these jedi very good at stuff!?!?! We read that there very good, but they die stinky."
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COMMANDER76 Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:44pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	Master Level post Thulium salute -----signature----- Master C76 of TheForce.Net http://boards.outerrimsieges.com <---- Utopia....even for Bashers!!!
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-maynard- Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:53pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	Thulium posted: yoshifett posted: Ah, but it's hard to have "destiny" without some for of determinism, which generally renders free will mute. Unless you bring "God" into it. Hard? Yes. Impossible? No. If "destiny" is simply the eternal point of view, no predetermination is necessary. A certain amount of determinism is conceivable even in a free-will/destiny synergy. Consider for a moment the concept of a "Self Fulfilling Prophecy". Padme's demise is a perfect example of this: Anakin saw a true vision of the future when dreamt of Padme's death. The choices he made, based on that foreknowledge, ironically are the cause of that end. If Anakin hadn't been so desperate to save Padme, he wouldn't have turned to the darkside and broken her heart causing her death. The prophecy itself was the determinate. in my eyes hes compelled to do the things he does, as they are necessary conditions to fulfill the prophecy. I also believe that the Prophecy and his premonitions are both connected and infallible. Thats why i say he had to turn dark to validate his dream -----signature----- "Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype (this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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-maynard- Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 6:57pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	Thalium: From a philosophical standpoint, free will and infallible prophecy cannot coexist. i dont see how your qoute of the neuroscientist bears relevance to my previous sentence. The only argument you can make is that the Prophecy is fallible. thats it. i personally dont feel that is as consistent as the infallibility argument -----signature----- "Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype (this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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-maynard- Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 7:00pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	darth-sinister posted: In the case of the Prophecy being right or wrong, it was right. But Anakin's actions throughout ROTS have the Jedi convinced that they could've misread it. That Anakin could become a danger afterall. That he might not even be the Chosen One. Or at best, a Jedi in order to fulfill his destiny very true, but i could give you dozens of Biblical examples where the Isrealites didnt not beleive prophecied events or acknowledge their signs -----signature----- "Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype (this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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biggd Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 7:15pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	There are many ways for Ani to fullfill the prophacy, he just hasta chose which way to do it -----signature----- Plo Koon: "There they are. Land on the nearest platform." Plo Koon page: http://www.geocities.com/kwenn3/plokoon "I loved you SuperShadow. You were the chosen one!" http://www.angelfire.com/crazy3/realsupershadow/ lil Ani/Vader =Slaves
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-maynard- Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/14/05 7:32pm Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	biggd posted: There are many ways for Ani to fullfill the prophacy, he just hasta chose which way to do it agree with you, as i offered a variety of ways he could destroy the Sith, to a point. i think there are certain things that he must do to satisfy his dreams and the prophecy, though -----signature----- "Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype (this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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Thulium Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/15/05 8:48am Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	Maynard, I'm sorry but Predestination and Free-Will are not contradictory. Most views of predestination include, as Master Yoshifett points out, at least a certain amount of determinism, but this isn't absolutely implicit in predestination. Determinism, obviously, conflicts with Free-Will thus explaining the supposed paradox, but not predestination itself. Take for example, the view of predestiny given in The Matrix trilogy: The Oracle explains that the future is determined by your choices and this future can be known if you have already made the choice. The trick is understanding why you made those choices. Neo is the Chosen One who will bring Peace because of choices he makes. He sees true visions of the future, according to the Oracle, because he's already made the choice--he just doesn't understand the choice. These visions of the future are infallible because they are the result of choices that have already been made, the passage of time and the fulfillment of these infallible prophecies occurs as Neo begins to understand his choices. -----signature----- "Arent these jedi very good at stuff!?!?! We read that there very good, but they die stinky."
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TheLightSide Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 7/15/05 9:37am Subject: RE: Nature of the Prophecy the key to understanding ROTS and the Saga in general
	The Force has a Will. It is no longer just a collection of energy from living creatures. It has enough of a Will to create someone out of nothing, or at least just an ovum of Shmi. This individual has the highest amount of midi-chlorians ever. It led Shmi and her son to Tatooine, so that Anakin could grow up in a binary system, and fulfill the "Son of the Suns" aspect of the prophecy. He's a self-taught robotic engineer. A self-taught alien-race podracer. This is before he meets anyone who is a Jedi. This person who was created is to bring "Balance" to the Force, which Lucas has identified as the final extinction of the Sith. Not just the preliminary extinction which happened a thousands years earlier. This person single-handedly brings down a Trade Federation Battleship. That is what Star Wars is about. Let's cast off our old shackles of how we have observed Star Wars. Everyopne else is just a supporting character. Supporting character: Some scoundrel/smuggler named Han Solo. Supporting character: Some over-the-top evil Sith named Sidious/Palpatine. Supporting character: The twins. Supporting character: A 2-ft high individual named Yoda etc, etc
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