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Topic:
The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Jedi-Queen
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 7:22am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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They're dead, he killed them, just have to accept it.
By that time he is a bad guy. For all intention purposes he
is Vader without the suit. He slaughters children - that is as
far from the person we see as Ani in EPI/II as you can get.
He's aligned himself with the Sith, he committed atrocities
and he turned on his wife and mentor. He's lost for the
next 20 yrs at least 
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All_Powerful_Jedi
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 7:26am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Nope. It was a black hole and Anakin fell all the way down. He never fully rights the wrongs, either, but he does manage to save his son.
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PadwanKayla
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 7:40am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Although GL’s intention was for us to think that Anakin killed the younglings and perhaps GL believed also that he did, it could very well be that Anakin did not. I’m likin’ this idea as I am an Anakin defender.
Perhaps, Anakin’s character has decided to take his fate into his own hands. I’m going with the idea which is presented in the book “Sophie’s World” that once a character is released from an author’s mind, it becomes an independent entity and has some sense of free-will that the author cannot control and in fact may not be aware of.
As we only see Anakin killing older Padwans, it could very well be that he has whisked the younger ones away. He never did admit to Padme that he killed them and he couldn’t tell Obi-Wan at this point as the Emperor would have surely found out. Anakin was prepared to take the blame for this in order to preserve their lives.
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FRANKTHERABBIT
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 7:49am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Pity there is no substantial evidence to back up the topic of this thread.
Anakin killed younglings - period.
Anything else is wishful thinking not based in the plot of ROTS.
Move along, move along...
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 8:05am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Okay, okay I'm a little bored - how about this old chestnut:
---------
Yoda and Mace were holding out on the Jedi Order.
They knew more about the prophecy than they really wanted to.
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For them, the fight against the Sith was essential - it was their duty.
But by the same token defeat, and the coming of the dark times, was inevitable.
I always liked the following dialogue which was dropped from AOTC, and hoped that this aspect of the prophecy may be revisited in ROTS:
MACE: "Why couldn't we see this attack on the Senator?"
YODA: "Masking the future, is this disturbance in the force."
MACE: "The prophecy is coming true, the dark side is growing."
YODA: "And only those who have turned to the Dark Side can sense the possibilities of the future. Only going through the Dark Side can we see."
MACE: "It's been ten years and the Sith still have not shown themselves. Do you think they are behind this?"
YODA: "…Out there, they are. A certainty, that is."
Alas, the idea was dropped altogether.
Or is there something to be said for the idea that Yoda's retreat from the Sidious duel is his final acceptence of this inevitable truth - the future belongs to the Sith, because it is as much a part of the Prophecy as the fact that the Chosen One will eventually bring balance?
Then there was the quote from Frank Oz in Empire Magazine. He was asking Lucas for direction on how to play Yoda, and inquired how much of what is going on Yoda knows about. I forget the exact phrasing, but Lucas' answer was basically "yes, he knows everything."
Food for thought if nothing else...
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PadwanKayla
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 8:16am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Get_in_Gear posted:
Yoda and Mace were holding out on the Jedi Order.
They knew more about the prophecy than they really wanted to.
An interesting idea.
Yoda had made the comment that the prophecy might have been misread. Perhaps he was alluding to the fact that most Jedi were assuming that the Chosen One would have immediately destroyed the Sith. Obi-Wan virtually says this in his last speech to Anakin – you were meant to destroy the Sith not join them. Yoda could very well have known that patience (rather ironically) was needed before the Chosen One would fulfill the prophecy.
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D_Lowe
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 8:16am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Master_Shaitan posted:
I have a thought in my mind that suggests that Anakin Skywalker, a.k.a. Darth Vader, did not kill the younglings in the council chamber.
Then who was it that killed the younglings with a lightsaber as Yoda said to Obi-Wan?
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Master_Shaitan
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 8:37am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Nice one GiG!
I forgot about that little cookie.
Obviously the jedi stuck to their duty and that idea was dropped. But as you said, Yoda does realise that it is time to walk away and that links back to the discussion with mace that you posted.
Perhaps the jedi should have allowed the Sith to take control without having to lose so many of their lives?
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Jedi-Queen
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 8:44am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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"Perhaps the jedi should have allowed the Sith to take control without having to lose so many of their lives?"
umm does someone forget what the Jedi are supposed to stand for?
"guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy".
They're selfless, they don't care as much about themselves
which is why they charged ahead trying to defend the republic
and in the end most of them lost their lives.
They're too noble to say **** this, let's save ourselves.
tsk tsk!
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Hapi-Wan
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 9:28am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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So if Yoda knew everything that was going on, did he know Palpatine was Sidious and chose not to reveal that information to the other Jedi's on the council? Remember the scene at the beginning of AOTC where Palpatine is feigning concern about Padme's welfare and Yoda turns and gives a discerning look as though he can see into Palpatine's motives.
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Master_Shaitan
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 9:36am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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umm does someone forget what the Jedi are supposed to stand for?
"guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy".
They're selfless, they don't care as much about themselves
which is why they charged ahead trying to defend the republic
and in the end most of them lost their lives.
They're too noble to say **** this, let's save ourselves.
tsk tsk!
Yes, which is what they do. however, the point I was making (and GiG) i believe is that concerning the larger prophecy - that the dark times would come.
So, should the jedi have cut their loses and give in to the sith to fight another day or do what they did?
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COMMANDER76
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 10:52am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Shaitan is right....the Jedi should have regrouped, refocused, all learned vaapad and saved the major battle for another time........
"there will be another time chewie........"
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 11:17am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Hapi-Wan posted:
So if Yoda knew everything that was going on, did he know Palpatine was Sidious and chose not to reveal that information to the other Jedi's on the council? Remember the scene at the beginning of AOTC where Palpatine is feigning concern about Padme's welfare and Yoda turns and gives a discerning look as though he can see into Palpatine's motives.
Hey, I'm not saying he did - just that Lucas told Oz that he should "act" as if he did, which is slightly different.
But I agree that there is a certain resignation in Yoda right from the start of the PT - almost as if he is already defeated.
Obviously, it is not a plot point per se - not as explicitly as it was originally intended to be at the time of AOTC, at least - but there are still things in there.
Basically it comes down to wondering exactly what the prophecy was - Was it written down? Was it just word of mouth? Was it in an archaic language which could literally be misinterpreted? What exactly did it say - what words did it use? Was it represented in words at all, or could it even have been some pictorial artefact - like the Sith frieze? Was it big, or was it concise and cryptic? Who got to know it all, did the Jedi know only what the Council taught them, or did every one have access to it?
I just find it all quite intriguing...
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Master_Shaitan
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 11:17am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Personally I think they should have put more focus on Anakin and trusted the prophecy more.
I dont believe it was about the Jedi coming back and fighting another war. Only Anakin can destroy the sith.
I just think that they could have spared all the loss of life.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/15/05 11:56am
Subject:
RE: The ROTS Conspiracy Theory Thread
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Anakin/Vader killed everyone in the Temple, that he encountered. Everyone the Clonetroopers didn't kill, he did. And yes, he could come back from the Dark Side, because there's still good in him.
"There's always this good in you. And the good part is saying 'what am I doing?'. Then the bad part kicks in and says 'I'm doing this for Padme, I'm doing this for the galaxy and so we can have a better life'. But the good part is always saying 'WHAT AM I DOING?!'"
--George Lucas to Hayden Christensen, Hyperspace webdoc.
"Anakin/Darth does what he does because he believes he's doing it for the good of the universe."
-- Hayden Christensen, GQ Magazine.
"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful—it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What Luke sees in Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ is something that I thought was worth understanding: the idea that Darth actually was a very good person. Except he's slightly more powerful than other people and when you get into that situation, your ability to do evil is much easier to come by."
--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.
Yoda knew about Anakin's feelings towards Padme, because they couldn't hide their feelings. But Palpatine could hide his feelings, which is why they couldn't tell that he was a Sith.
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