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Topic:
Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 10:02am
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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His first scene in ROTJ cracks me up everytime and thats not GOOOD.
Good thing he never said "Baaaaaaaaaaaaad".
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"The Obama Car will be fueled by FISA amendments and emit civil liberties for exhaust." A-B
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Clone_Commander169
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 10:23am
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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i agree with you all
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 10:34am
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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Alfred Hitchcock was one of those directors who believe that it's better for the audience to know something bad is about to happen, than to surprise them out of the blue. That the anticipation is sweeter than the shock value of a plot point. Lucas, in his own way, was following that with Palpatine.
And yes, Dooku did know that Palpatine is Sidious. It's been well documented that he did know.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Somnambulist_ZZZ
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 10:53am
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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namnlos posted:
Some people thought the cute little kid in TPM was young Luke, so maybe George was playing safe 
Yes, that is the classic one. As far as not knowing Sidious = Palpatine, the Emperor back in 1983 was Emperor Palpatine. Coincidence?
However, if watching from Episode I, I could understand not knowing, and I think that was the point. In AOTC, Dooku tells Obi-Wan that 'hundreds of Senators are now under the control of a Sith lord...'. In politics, it's easy for one Senator to have a huge following and control a lot of sway, so to say that that statement immediately pointed the finger at the Supreme Chancellor is a bit of an assumption. He could be refering to anyone really, bureaucrats, senate members, etc. Besides all that, there are thousands of star systems, not hundreds in the Senate. If Dooku had told Kenobi, 'The thousands of star systems in the Senate are all now under the control of a Sith lord named...', then it might be a more corrupting decree.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 12:08pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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It was obvious to anyone that paid attention to Return of the Jedi. Look, in TPM, Senator Palpatine is played by Ian McDiarmid, the same actor that played the Emperor in Jedi. The very introduction to the Star Wars novelization tells us that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. So, that connection was made already. Then, the first time we ever see and hear Sidious, it is obvious that not only does he bear a SIGNIFICANT resemblence to the Emperor in Jedi, as soon as you hear him speak, you know its the same voice. Even though in TPM Darth Sidious is uncredited, its clearly Ian McDiarmid.
Senator/Supreme Chancellor Palpatine in TPM, AOTC, ROTS = Ian McDiarmid
Emperor Palpatine in ROTJ = Ian McDiarmid
Darth Sidious in TPM, AOTC, ROTS = Ian McDiarmid
Darth Sidious = Palpatine
What was so hard to figure out?
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What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon?
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide!
It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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-maynard-
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 1:03pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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just for the record, the part where he cheers happens after Obi-Wan slices up the battle droids.
two times he shows a concerened look: when they first engage dooku and then when obi-wan gets tossed
so his reactions were not only for anakin
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"Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype
(this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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COMMANDER76
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 1:08pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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palpatine had a definite interest in the dooku/kenobi/anakin duel....he cheered obi-wan slice the battle driods as a fellow lightsaber artist.....and showed concern for kenobi when dooku slamed him under that platform. he wanted to yell, "KILL HIM!!! I SAID TO KILL KENOBI!!!! dammit dooku you can't do ANYTHING right can you!!!"..........but he couldn't...lol
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Despised1
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 6:30pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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It was obvious to anyone that paid attention to Return of the Jedi. Look, in TPM, Senator Palpatine is played by Ian McDiarmid, the same actor that played the Emperor in Jedi. The very introduction to the Star Wars novelization tells us that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. So, that connection was made already. Then, the first time we ever see and hear Sidious, it is obvious that not only does he bear a SIGNIFICANT resemblence to the Emperor in Jedi, as soon as you hear him speak, you know its the same voice. Even though in TPM Darth Sidious is uncredited, its clearly Ian McDiarmid.
Dude I don't see that the fans are confused about that, everyone here seems to know that Palpatine=Sidious, as you said it is very clear by the end of AotC. Who it is not clear to is the actual Star Wars characters, that is why Palpatine had to keep up the ruse. Yes we know that Ian McDiarmid is the actor that plays the Emporer, but do the Jedi in the TPM/AotC/ and RotS know that, no they don't.
Try to keep your fan knowledge seperate from the SW characters knowledge, I am sure if Qui Gon Jinn had the benefit of seeing RotJ he would have quickly come to the same conclusionm and the PT could have ended with TPM.
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 ~Sith Loyalist~ "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap"  "Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today and it won't be you."  "Eventus stultorum magister!" 
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MiaTiska
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 7:38pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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-maynard- posted:
i dont get it. in anakin/obi-wan vs. dooku, the camera cuts to palpatine cheering the Jedi like he's at a baseball game
dooku obviously knows who he is-the whole thing was staged.
who in the audience doesnt know who palpatine is? excluding the OT, the guy under the hood is clearly Palpatine. why else would this palpatine guy be plastered all over the movies if he was completely innocent?
its painfully obvious who he was, that his cheering was an insult to anyone's intelligence
It's not an insult to the audience's intelligence. Palpatine was playing the part of the innocent, helpless kidnap victim for the sake of Obi-Wan and Anakin in the room. To them, that's who he was. A nice guy, if a bit incompetent, and would be cheering on the Jedi who have come to "rescue" him. Dooku knew that Palpatine was Sidious, knew that Palp/Sidious would be "cheering" on the Jedi as part of the charade, but clearly was not expecting Sidious to tell Anakin to kill him.
Someone said that the opening held a bit of humor, and it did that for me. A bit of disbelief mixed in with the humor as well, that Palps was able to pull off his acting jobs so well. We (well, most of us) in the audience know Palpatine is Sidious -- but the characters of Obi-Wan and Anakin do not. His cheering them on was to keep up the charade of the helpless Chancellor a little bit longer, nothing more, because:
Darth_Fruit_Fly posted:
If Palpatine would have revealed himself at THIS juncture, Anakin and Obi-Wan would have killed him. It's as simple as that.
It wasn't in Palpatine's plan yet to reveal himself as Darth Sidious yet.  Hence, he had to be Palpatine and "cheer" on the Jedi.
-Mia
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MiaTieska's sock http://www.ltue.org - KJA & Rebecca Moesta @ LTUE 24, Feb. 16-18, 2006 http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17863328 - Mischief & Mistletoe, co-writer Abby
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 8:13pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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I still think the cheer is just Sidious watching the fight and enjoying it. He cheers just as Obi-Wan cuts the battle droid down.
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-maynard-
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 8:24pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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yoshifett posted:
I still think the cheer is just Sidious watching the fight and enjoying it. He cheers just as Obi-Wan cuts the battle droid down.
i guess so. it was your thread about this deul that reminded me of how much that part annoyed me.
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"Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype
(this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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DARTH_BELO
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 9:05pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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I don't think he really meant all of it-it was only for Anakin (and in parts, Obi-Wan) to be decieved-I mean look at how Palpatine takes all the physical stuff they had to do! especially like hanging from the lift shaft!! Not too bad of physical ability for a pampered politician, eh?????
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JustinPeeler
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 9:16pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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He wanted Dooku to kill Obi Wan, not some super-battle droid. The cheer was real.
-----signature-----
1.Power Couplings? No, superheated sand is the answer.
2.OT Palpatine is Sidious. So is PT Palpatine because there is only ONE Palpatine.
3. Sifo Dyas is as dead as a doornail. He is not Grievous
4. Vader's ID isn't a surprise to anyone.
5. Duh!
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
8/17/05 9:28pm
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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I don't think there's compelling evidence either way, so I'll just believe that he's an evil man who likes seeing his own droid get cut in half by his mortal enemies.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/18/05 12:10am
Subject:
RE: Why does ROTS' opening pretend Palpatine is not Sidious?
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Some people didn't make the connection of the Emperor to Palpatine. The reason being is that in the OT, he is never called Palpatine or Sidious. And not everyone knew who Ian McDiarmid was. Some still don't. Also, there were people who thought that Ian really was an old guy, with some makeup enhancements. They didn't know that he was only 39 in 1982. In TPM, they made the connection of Sidious to the Emperor. But not to Palpatine. Some missed the clues that were staring them in the face. A few got it in AOTC, but still not many did. ROTS was the capper that cleared it up, especially when he started talking like the Emperor and even looking like him. There were those who had figured it out long ago and were waiting for the big payoff.
Anyway, I think Palpatine was cheering Anakin on to kill Dooku, but also for Dooku to kill Obi-wan first. It's just designed to look ambigious until Palpatine tells Anakin to kill Dooku.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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