Jedi Council Forums - During ROTS, did anyone else feel as if they were being manipulated by Palpatine as well?

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Author	Topic: During ROTS, did anyone else feel as if they were being manipulated by Palpatine as well?
FallenKnight88 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 4:54pm Subject: During ROTS, did anyone else feel as if they were being manipulated by Palpatine as well?
	Did anyone else feel as if they were being manipulated by Palpatine as well? Personally during that entire sequence in the opera house when Palpatine was dicussing the Jedi ways etc. I felt weird because not only was I listening to his POV, but part of me was thinking "he's right" and mind you i'm a hardcore supporter of the good guys (the Jedi)! It's just, that little scene (along w/ the reveal to Anakin that he's a Sith Lord) convinced me maybe for a minute or two, that the Jedi may in fact be the "evil" ones. (Luckily, the death of Mace quickly made me wise up again.) Lines like: "Dogmatic practices of the Jedi" (paraphrasing) "All who achieve power are afraid to lose it, including the Jedi." "The Sith rely on thier passion...they think inward only for themselves."--Anakin "and the Jedi don't?" And I understand that their have been many threads about how Sidious has a point, "it's all about POV" etc. but this thread isn't about that, it's about whether or not at any time during your ROTS Palpatine had you buying into his B/S even if for a moment. Be honest...
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IBO-NAW-NAYAS Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 4:59pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	Ya not most of the time but just like one or two lines got me thinking are the jedi realy as good as i thought they were. the line that made me realy think was the line "The Sith rely on thier passion...they think inward only for themselves."--Anakin "and the Jedi don't?".That was realy good. Palpatine is awsome with his words, if i was in Anakins shoes and wasn't seeing the whole picture I would have also joined palps. -----signature----- Proud member of the Official Yoda Fan Club "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"-Obi-Wan Proud member of the Official Obi-Wan Kenobi Fan club May the force be with you
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Revenge_of_SW3 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 4:59pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	The line about power had me thinking, but I wasn't fooled. Of course, I couldn't take my eyes off the film when I first saw it in theaters, but I figured out everything eventually. -----signature----- Feel free to call me SW3 Username on the G4 forums: Order_66 Username on the KMC forums: SW3HP4IJ4 help me get my forums off the ground andJoin Gameplanet.com: http://sw3hp4ij4.proboards2.com/index.cgi
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RebelScum77 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 9/21/05 5:24pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	Palpatine never fooled me, though I was impressed by how clever his words to Anakin were. I could certainly understand how he was swayed. It was the perfect set 'em up to knock 'em down. -----signature----- Your smile is worth a thousand pennies.
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simon-the-ewok Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 5:28pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	That's just how good an actor Ian Mcdiarmid is. -----signature----- Anakin: You turned her against me! Obi-Wan: You have done that yourself!
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LordRevan19 Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 5:30pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	Nice observation. No, I didn't. But I can understand how people can get confused about the Jedi being traitors and stuff like that. Good stuff -----signature----- ~BEARDED PROJECTIONIST~ Xbox Live Gamertag: xWOOKIEE KINGx Original Deadman 17-0
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RebelScum77 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 9/21/05 5:31pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	Oh, and I guess I should preface that this thread is acceptable as long as it doesn't turn into an McDiarmid basher/gusher fest. Let's keep it on the character and his words/actions in the film. -----signature----- Your smile is worth a thousand pennies.
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yoshifett Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 9/21/05 5:55pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	I'll keep that in mind RS. That being said, Ian did an amazing job of subtly making the Jedi look like a plague on the Galaxy, and Anakin ate it up by the spoonful. And, yeah, I could identify with Anakin because of how well Sidious set everything up.
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Juggernaut86 Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 5:58pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	I think people dont want to agree with Sidious In all actuality....all of his comments weren't lies This man was clearly the smartest character in the sage The man had been planning this for over 20 years and didnt slip once He was making difficult decisions as a Chancellor and Seperatist leader lol stuff is crazy
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Jedimaster_Prowl Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 9/21/05 5:58pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	I remember seeing it in the theater for the first time and it actually made me doubt the Jedi... -----signature----- "Everytime I close my eyes... In the dark I see her." - Capt. Benjamin Sisko Lego Mass Murderer Playset: http://boards.theforce.net/Attack_of_the_Clones/b10001/7658583 Picard n Riker 2008 "For a Safer Federation"
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JEDY Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 6:43pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	Ian was amazing in manipulation. To be honest though , I didn't feel that way at all, I have too much Jedi in me. . Anakin though, I can understand what his situation was like . -----signature----- Jedi Knight in the SWC trials ~/Proud President of the Yoda fanclub\~ Master to Padawan Clone_Commander169 "Use the for...." "The force?" "No, the fork. Use the fork." - Mark Hamill
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albertperk Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 9/21/05 11:09pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	No I don't think...I remember Palpatine saying all those statements to Anakin and I just kept thinking thats not all true...when anakin mentioned that the sith rely on power I nodded my head thinking yes anakin thats right good answer...but then Palps went on to talk about Darth Plaugus and when he did this I knew that he got Anakin thinking becuase he couldn't get the thought of losing Padme' out of his mind...hence part of the reason for his downfall... -----signature----- "There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the Force." - The Jedi Code
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 9/21/05 11:14pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	It all goes back to what Lucas wanted for much of ROTS. He wanted the black and white world to become mixed and gray. Thus you couldn't tell the good guys from the bad guys. Thus making us understand why Anakin would choose to listen to the devil himself. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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inkswamp Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 9/21/05 11:36pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	Yes, definitely felt manipulated by Palpatine, caught myself a couple of times thinking that what he had to say made sense. I thought that was one of the most brilliant parts of ROTS, the fact that Palpatine spends half of the film coming off like some trustworthy, honest grandfather type. I knew he was the villain (of course) but the fact that he was delivering his point of view with such a gentleman's demeanor made me accept some of what he was saying. People accuse Lucas of not being able to write dialogue or direct actors, but they ignore this kind of stuff. Lucas has a hard time with romantic scenes and love stories to the point where they stick out inordinately and overshadows the better moments. The way he wrote and directed McDiarmid in ROTS is pure genius as far as I'm concerned. -----signature----- LAME COMEBACK #1 - Lucas should have done it my way or it's wrong LAME COMEBACK #2 - I can't think metaphorically so it's a PLOT HOLE LAME COMEBACK #3 - Complex interpretations confuse me LAME COMEBACK #4 - Lucas must spoon-feed me every detail
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-maynard- Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 9/21/05 11:45pm Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	Revenge_of_SW3 posted: The line about power had me thinking, but I wasn't fooled. Of course, I couldn't take my eyes off the film when I first saw it in theaters, but I figured out everything eventually. i didnt bite on the power argument as palpatine himself is in power and is rather obviously speaking about losing his power i spent most of the time waiting for anakin to convincingly tell him he was wrong (at least once) instead of replying with rhetoric -----signature----- "Sand rough. You soft." Anakin portraying the 'cave man' archetype (this is only funny if you think the archetype excuse for bad acting is lame)
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zombie Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 9/22/05 12:30am Subject: RE: During ROTS...
	I dont know if "fooled" is a good way of putting it. Because, although his overall outlook is evil, much of what he had to say was true. Even though i knew he was actually Sidious, even though i knew he was the evil sith lord, he still made a compelling argument. I found myself agreeing with him many times, as did Anakin and I'm sure much of the audience--because the fact is that he was right about many things. So agreeing with his truths is not being fooled, i think. Anakin was fooled because he thought the Empire/jedi purge would be in the name of peace--that was the only real deception of Palpatine, and i dont think anyone was fooled by that, save for Anakin. Palpatine's manipulations were the best part of the PT and ROTS was his moment to shine. Like Dooku, its almost a shame that he is revealed as a cardboard Evil-with-a-capital-E villain in the end, because his character as Palpatine really brings forth the moral grey zones and elevates the film to a much deeper and thought provoking level. Then its blown away in favor of lightning attacks, maniacal cackling and lightsaber acrobatics. Alas, that is Star Wars, a space serial, and not a character study. But i loved the first half of ROTS. The distrust--you really get this claustrophic sense of paranoia--who the hell DO you trust?? The jedi are ignoring and fearing Anakin, Anakin is at odds with the jedi, Palpatine is paranoid that the jedi will try to overthrow him, the jedi are paranoid that Palpatine will try and overthrow them, the jedi are using Anakin to spy on Palpatine, meanwhile Palpatine and Anakin are the only two people who trust each other and are being forced to try and betray one another. Even Padme and Obi Wan get caught up in acts of deception, and Anakin in turn begins decieving them. Everything is falling apart!! Finally in the midst of all this chaos, Palpatine's words become like a beacon of light through a shroud of mist, the only thing that actually makes any sense. Yeah, Palpatine was an evil genius underneath the gentle grandfather exterior, but he had a point. The black and white view of good and evil seen so clearly in the OT is a muddied mess of grey, and even in hindsight it is difficult to sort it all out. "The jedi and the sith are similar in almost every way...including their lust for greater power." The Opera scene is one of the best moments in the entire saga--two great characters sharing a real moment, with an utterly convincing actor keeping the audience mesmerised with his words. Its the Obi Wan's Hovel scene of the PT. -----signature----- The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available in print http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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