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Author	Topic: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
Sid_Vader Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 3:53am Subject: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	Anakin was conflicted with what the Jedi stood for and what HE thought they stood for, right? On Greivous's ship Anakin immediately sees the err of his ways after executing Dooku; mostly the method he used. This being the sole for his defense of Palpatine against Mace during the arrest scene. All Ben and Mace knew of Anakin's fight with Dooku was that it ended in the Sith Master's death. Do you suppose if Anakin had brought all the events to light then, while receiving Yoda's council,and also if Kenobi had seen the events leading up to Anakin giving himself to Palpatine, things might have played out differently? They only figured Anakin willfully gave himself to the Sith, knowing the evil they could carry out, they never saw that he was tricked into believing Palpatine was another defenseless old man. Hmmm I just realized another contradiction, Anakin was sold on the power Palpatine claimed he had, so what made him think Palpatine was defenseless in the first place? Of course it doesn't matter because he destroyed the Jedi Temple and everyone in it before Ben and Yoda could help him, but just another one of those monumental events that makes me go hmmm... -----signature----- "Try not. Do or do not, there is no try." Yoda "You WILL try...." Vader
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WAKKYBINKS Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 4:00am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	first off, my belief is that mace had some darkside tendencies of his own to say the least. I thimk he's the jedi most responsible for anakin turning. From day 1 mace treated anakin like a red headed step child. I've always hated that. Anakin always wanted to do the right thing. His heart was always in the right place. But after so much scolding and down right maliciousness from mace i'd do the same thing. Even after anakin told mace about sids, mace still didn't trust him. He told anakin he would trust him if it was true. He should of took anakin with him. I think mace is at fault for a large part of what happened. Like i said, i hate that.I always wanted it to be a choice anakin made on his own. He was practically pushed that way by mace. Blah.
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Sid_Vader Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 4:28am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	I agree it was if Mace went in their with the mentality "I'm gona get me a medal for this." Self servicing 'Jedi'? Ya and good point about the 'red-headed stepchild ' treatment. Mace just didn't want to let Anakin in on a piece of his action. -----signature----- "Try not. Do or do not, there is no try." Yoda "You WILL try...." Vader
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mjerome3 Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/11/05 4:40am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	Yoda did see the Mace, Palpatine, Anakin incident. If he could feel Ki-Mundi and the deaths of other Jedi, he could feel and see Mace's death. He definetly saw Anakin's turn exactly when it happened. Back to Mace. Mace had good reason to believe Anakin could not be trusted. First off, there was his close relationship with the Chancellor. Secondly, Anakin was unstable, even as a Jedi Knight. Mace knew this. Thirdly, Anakin was confused about his loyalites, and Mace sensed this. He even told Anakin this. Had Anakin gone to the Chancellor's office to arrest the Sith Lord, the scene would have ended the same exact way. Once Anakin saw Palpatine's lightsaber come to life he would have stepped aside and just watched Palps kill Jedi Masters or Anakin would have helped Palps. Mace was right in how he handled the situation with Anakin. -----signature----- May the Force be with you- Luke Skywalker May the Force be with you- Han Solo May the Force be with you- Qui-Gon Jinn May the Force be with you- Anakin Skywalker The Force will be with you...always- Obi-Wan Kenobi
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WAKKYBINKS Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 4:48am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	mjerome, i couldn't disagree with you more. At that point anakin was trying to do the right thing. Instead of killing palps himself when he had the chance, he went to mace. His general. Like a good soldier. And when anakin shows up what does he see? Mace about to execute an unarmed palpatine. So after all the bs mace has given him over the years, he sees mace doing a very unjedi like thing. If anakin were allowed to come along and see palps attack the jedi he would of helped them. He would of seen palps for what he really was, a lying evil sob.
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mjerome3 Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:01am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	Mace Windu cared about the Jedi Order and the Republic. Here's this slimy Sith Lord that has staged a war that has taken the lives of countless Jedi. Here's this slimy Sith Lord who has lied to the galaxy, lied to those in the senate, and the Jedi Order. This slimy Sith Lord has even lied to the Chosen One, making him believe that talent alone is what it takes to be a great Jedi. Here's this slimy Sith Lord who the Jedi have been looking for since the start of the Clone War, who's regulating the Senate, all in the name of the Sith. Then here's this poor confused boy with his attachments, his Padme, his fears, and his anxieties. And you mean to tell me that all the Jedi have to die because a woman has to live? Then here's this noble warrior who is on the Jedi High Council, who would have done what other Jedi would have done if they came face to face with a Sith. Palpatine could not be brought into custody. Palpatine had to die. -----signature----- May the Force be with you- Luke Skywalker May the Force be with you- Han Solo May the Force be with you- Qui-Gon Jinn May the Force be with you- Anakin Skywalker The Force will be with you...always- Obi-Wan Kenobi
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WAKKYBINKS Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:08am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	mjerome, have you ever lost everything dear to you? i have. So i can understand anakin's thought process here. I would do anything to keep that from ever happenning to me again. ANYTHING. sO YEAH HIS LOVE FOR "a woman" meant more to him than anything else. He would not lose her no matter what.
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Sid_Vader Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:10am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	I do not argue that Palpatine had to die at all, oh no. I just think that Mace's intensity at that moment with his saber in Palp's face made Anakin do a double take, that's the point of this thread. Mace was a noble Jedi but you have to admit the leanings toward the battlefield mentality. And wasn't it Yoda who said after all, "Wars not make one great."? -----signature----- "Try not. Do or do not, there is no try." Yoda "You WILL try...." Vader
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mjerome3 Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:18am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	Anakin appeared so full of folly that it was ridiculous. Had he listened to Master Yoda, he would have had Padme with him for the remainder of his days, raised Luke Skywalker and Leia, and destroyed the Sith and balanced the Force sooner rather than later and would have been promoted to Jedi Master because of it. The signs were all around Anakin for him to accomplish great things. He had listen to Yoda, had he trusted Obi-Wan's word that soon enough he would become a Master Jedi, he could have still had Padme by his side, had his children, balanced the Force, and been respected within the Jedi Order. In fact, he would have probably been the only Jedi in the Order who could have had children and been married and no one would have said anything, not even Mace. But he didn't trust Yoda's words. He didn't listen to Obi-Wan. Instead he listened to the voice of Satan and lost everything anyway. Lost Padme, lost the Jedi Order, lost his friendship with Obi-Wan, and lost a lot of his power. Sad. Very sad. And that is the irony of the situation. -----signature----- May the Force be with you- Luke Skywalker May the Force be with you- Han Solo May the Force be with you- Qui-Gon Jinn May the Force be with you- Anakin Skywalker The Force will be with you...always- Obi-Wan Kenobi
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WAKKYBINKS Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:25am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	uh, i seem to remember some dialogue about anakin being expelled from the order if the council ever found out .Um, they were hiding it for a reason. Did you forget about that? You sound confused.Maybe you should watch the movies again to get a clearer understanding of what was going on.
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mjerome3 Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:32am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	WAKKYBINKS posted: uh, i seem to remember some dialogue about anakin being expelled from the order if the council ever found out .Um, they were hiding it for a reason. Did you forget about that? You sound confused.Maybe you should watch the movies again to get a clearer understanding of what was going on. Young one, you are missing my point. Once he fulfilled his true destiny none of that would have mattered. He could have retired and went to Naboo and be with his wife and kids. Instead, he turned his back on his rightful destiny and paid dearly for it. Do you still err? Do you comprehend me now? -----signature----- May the Force be with you- Luke Skywalker May the Force be with you- Han Solo May the Force be with you- Qui-Gon Jinn May the Force be with you- Anakin Skywalker The Force will be with you...always- Obi-Wan Kenobi
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WAKKYBINKS Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:36am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	you miss the point of him already breaking the jedi code and getting married. You state they would of accepted him. The jedi have been around for over a thousand years. They have that rule for a reason. Had anakin followed it in the first place there would be no problem. Go back and read your post. See where you are confused? Not to mention you contrdict an earlier statement you made about mace not allowing anakin to go with him. Exactly how can anakin kill palpatine without being there? You're getting really close to baiting here. Keep it away from being personal.
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mjerome3 Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:45am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	WAKKYBINKS posted: you miss the point of him already breaking the jedi code and getting married. You state they would of accepted him. The jedi have been around for over a thousand years. They have that rule for a reason. Had anakin followed it in the first place there would be no problem. Go back and read your post. See where you are confused? Young one, the fact of the matter is the prophecy itself. Not his allegiance to the Jedi Order. That's besides the point. The fact is he was the Chosen One which is what got him trained in the first place. That was his destiny. You are missing my point, young one. Why would he stay in the order once he achieved such greatness, knowing he had a wife and a child on the way? Anakin knew what his destiny was and didn't embrace it. -----signature----- May the Force be with you- Luke Skywalker May the Force be with you- Han Solo May the Force be with you- Qui-Gon Jinn May the Force be with you- Anakin Skywalker The Force will be with you...always- Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Lord_NoONE Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:45am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	I am going to premise my response on the content of the title alone. Had Yoda and Obi-Wan seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident in the Chancellor's office then they would have merely understood more clearly what had transpired. Afterall, once they arrived at the Jedi Temple and had viewed the security footage there was really nothing left to the mystery. It was clear that Anakin had pledged himself to the darkside and that the Emperor was the Sith Lord for whom they had been searching. Seeing the death of Mace Windu would have allowed the two to only more convincingly say, "Yep, the boy Obi-Wan trained, gone he is, consumed by Darth Vader." Additionally, I do not believe that Obi-Wan or Yoda was ever really confused as to why Anakin would have turned to the darkside. The boy had always sought more power and prestige than he was truly ready to receive. He always wanted more and when he did not receive then he acted out in violent and, quite frankly, brutal ways. Thus, seeing the temptation of Anakin by the power of the darkside would not have surprised Obi-Wan or Yoda. The connection of Padme, however, might have made both of them raise an eyebrow, but I don't think it would have surprised either of them in the least bit because I believe that Obi-Wan knew of Anakin and Padme's relationship.
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WAKKYBINKS Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:52am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	so explain to me exactly how anakin can kill palpatine if according to you mace did the right thing by leaving him behind? Me thinks you're contradicting yourself, uninformed one.
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Darth Kruel Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 10/11/05 5:55am Subject: RE: What if Yoda and Obi Wan had seen the Mace/Palpatine/Anakin incident?
	mjerome3 posted: WAKKYBINKS posted: you miss the point of him already breaking the jedi code and getting married. You state they would of accepted him. The jedi have been around for over a thousand years. They have that rule for a reason. Had anakin followed it in the first place there would be no problem. Go back and read your post. See where you are confused? Young one, the fact of the matter is the prophecy itself. Not his allegiance to the Jedi Order. That's besides the point. The fact is he was the Chosen One which is what got him trained in the first place. That was his destiny. You are missing my point, young one. Why would he stay in the order once he achieved such greatness, knowing he had a wife and a child on the way? Anakin knew what his destiny was and didn't embrace it. mjerome, you're right and you're wrong. I don't think the Jedi Council would have liked the fact that Anakin was secretly wed to Padme and the fact she was pregnant. But once he destroyed the Master Sith, I agree it wouldn't make a difference one way or the other. He could either become one of the Lost or be expelled. But for whatever reason given the situation with Palaptine-Sidious, and if Anakin managed to balance the Force, I don't see why the Jedi would need to suspend him from the order once he fulfilled his destiny though. As far as Yoda, he already knew Anakin turned. It didn;t make a bit of differnece there. -----signature----- I only pose as a Sith to bring them down from within. The Jedi are my brotherhood, my family, and the Living Force is my salvation.
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