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Topic:
Would Padme have died if Obi-Wan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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anakin_luver
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:24pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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^^^^ Saying that it was 100% of his fault is over doing it. From the beginning, his intentions were pure, and good. He wanted to save his wife, the mother of his unborn child/children. So no one can argue with that. But where it changes is when he started doing things that had absolutely nothing to do with saving Padme [killing younglings, etc]. By then, he was already in this too far. He was doing this for selfish reasons, and by then, you could safely say that this was *not* Anakin. He wasn't himself. He was brain-washed, and promised things that would never happen. How can you blame this entirely on him? I'd day 50% his fault.
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Jedi-Queen
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:30pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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"He was brain-washed, "
I think that's a lil over doing it and a way of explaining away
Ani's responsilbility. He was manipulated, yes. He was tricked, yes.
He was promised things, yes. BUT, he could of at anytime thought about
what he was about to do and said no, 'Padme would not want me to kill
children no matter what the reason or motive.' 'No, I will not take your
word for this supposed ability to keep people from dying.' He finds
out Palps is a Sith who kept his true self hidden for years. Also if
Ani put 2+2 he'd know Maul was most likely Palps apprentice and he was
responsible for killing QGJ. None of that mattered, he just said ok,
I'll believe you 100% and to hell with where all the dots connect.
Talk about paying the price for your lack of vision lol.
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"Shoot for the moon.
Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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TheCRZA posted:
exactly. i don't believe for a second that Palpatine would let Padme live. she would be a bad influence on Anakin.
Truth. And Palpatine only needed her around long enough for Anakin to turn.
but you have to remember that palps was very lucky that vader got choped.if vader was suitless by the moment that padme dies palps would be in deep s***.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:33pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Jedi-Queen posted:
"He was brain-washed, "
I think that's a lil over doing it and a way of explaining away
Ani's responsilbility. He was manipulated, yes. He was tricked, yes.
He was promised things, yes. BUT, he could of at anytime thought about
what he was about to do and said no, 'Padme would not want me to kill
children no matter what the reason or motive.' 'No, I will not take your
word for this supposed ability to keep people from dying.' He finds
out Palps is a Sith who kept his true self hidden for years. Also if
Ani put 2+2 he'd know Maul was most likely Palps apprentice and he was
responsible for killing QGJ. None of that mattered, he just said ok,
I'll believe you 100% and to hell with where all the dots connect.
Talk about paying the price for your lack of vision lol.
what i took from the movie is that no one really took the time to think things through.
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illegalise stupidity.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:38pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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but you have to remember that palps was very lucky that vader got choped.if vader was suitless by the moment that padme dies palps would be in deep s***.
i'm thinking palps would definitely not have allowed to have him have padme and also palps probly had a plan in the event padme is still alive after anakin has turned.
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illegalise stupidity.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:38pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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darth_frared posted:
Jedi-Queen posted:
"He was brain-washed, "
I think that's a lil over doing it and a way of explaining away
Ani's responsilbility. He was manipulated, yes. He was tricked, yes.
He was promised things, yes. BUT, he could of at anytime thought about
what he was about to do and said no, 'Padme would not want me to kill
children no matter what the reason or motive.' 'No, I will not take your
word for this supposed ability to keep people from dying.' He finds
out Palps is a Sith who kept his true self hidden for years. Also if
Ani put 2+2 he'd know Maul was most likely Palps apprentice and he was
responsible for killing QGJ. None of that mattered, he just said ok,
I'll believe you 100% and to hell with where all the dots connect.
Talk about paying the price for your lack of vision lol.
what i took from the movie is that no one really took the time to think things through.
what really,really bugs me is that anakin believed all so easily.meaning: i dont care about his attitude,if he is arrogant so be it,if he is attached so be it,if he cant control his emotions so be it but how in the world could he believe that the dark side seeks to help others or save lifes !!!?!?!  when he actually believed that a sith lord responsible himself for everything,including attempts on padme's life,was gonna help him save a potential enemy is the moment that i realised that ani cant figure out that 1+1=2.
a sith caring about others ?!?!?!?!  not even a youngling would fall for that.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:42pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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darth_frared posted:
but you have to remember that palps was very lucky that vader got choped.if vader was suitless by the moment that padme dies palps would be in deep s***.
i'm thinking palps would definitely not have allowed to have him have padme and also palps probly had a plan in the event padme is still alive after anakin has turned.
within a few years unsuited vader would probably be stronger than palpatine so what can he do ?? kill her inmediately after ROTS ?? that would only put him in a fight vs vader.
kill her a few years pòst ROTS and beg that vader doesnt decapitate him ?? not likely.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:46pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
what really,really bugs me is that anakin believed all so easily.meaning: i dont care about his attitude,if he is arrogant so be it,if he is attached so be it,if he cant control his emotions so be it but how in the world could he believe that the dark side seeks to help others or save lifes !!!?!?! when he actually believed that a sith lord responsible himself for everything,including attempts on padme's life,was gonna help him save a potential enemy is the moment that i realised that ani cant figure out that 1+1=2.
a sith caring about others ?!?!?!?! not even a youngling would fall for that.
yeah, that's a bugger.
i'm thinking he is in a state and since he assumes that it's nothing medical he can do for padme, he just turns to a force explanation, first to the jedi, then to the sith...
i don't think he *buys* it all, he just assumes that he can play along for a while, uncover the secret etc and then leave. and he underestimates his own ability to cope with unleashing the dark side. that's the biggest thing for me.
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illegalise stupidity.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:48pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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anakin_luver posted:
Hmmmmmm....hard to decide, this question is....
Here are two of my POVs
1.) Anakin would of Force choked her anyway becuase she refused to join him
2.) He would not be as angry because Obi-Wan was the main reaosn he got all "crazy"
"LIAR! You're with him! You brought him here to kill me!"
"No!"
So, it's hard to decide...
You are obviously too much in love with the character that you're blind to his actions. What does Padme die from? A broken heart. Why is her heart broken? Because Anakin has became evil. Obi has nothing to do with it, and whether it was Force Choke or other methods, she would have died.
Its only tough to decide because so many can't handle the truth. Anakin is no more at that point. That is the actions of Vader.
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Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:50pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
within a few years unsuited vader would probably be stronger than palpatine so what can he do ?? kill her inmediately after ROTS ?? that would only put him in a fight vs vader.
kill her a few years pòst ROTS and beg that vader doesnt decapitate him ?? not likely.
Vader was probably stronger than Palpatine in ROTS without the suit. It wouldn't have taken years. Vader likely would have killed Padme anyway before too long, because she would have rejected the power he offered.
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Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
Who's the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 12:53pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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within a few years unsuited vader would probably be stronger than palpatine so what can he do ?? kill her inmediately after ROTS ?? that would only put him in a fight vs vader.
kill her a few years pòst ROTS and beg that vader doesnt decapitate him ?? not likely.
nono, i'm thinking along other lines.
remember how he breaks him by lying to him in the end?
from cut scenes i gather he tried to make anakin jealous already. so, he would just sow mistrust between them. palps can pull that off. and then anakin would lash out against her. he does so on mustafar, he might as well do so later on.
as long as anakin *believes* palps chances are palps can make him do pretty much anakin.
anyway, i'm pretty sure palps had already made a plan to take care of padme. first because of anakin (he, too, cannot have him divide his loyalties) and then for political reasons.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:02pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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You are obviously too much in love with the character that you're blind to his actions. What does Padme die from? A broken heart. Why is her heart broken? Because Anakin has became evil. Obi has nothing to do with it, and whether it was Force Choke or other methods, she would have died.
i know we are all delusional about anakin and we don't understand one bit about him.
thank you for showing me the light on that one.
so, how about the person who came out all challenging and actiually made it look like he betrayed his best with his wife?
why would she have died anyway? how do you know?
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:04pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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2Cleva posted:
sithrules70 posted:
within a few years unsuited vader would probably be stronger than palpatine so what can he do ?? kill her inmediately after ROTS ?? that would only put him in a fight vs vader.
kill her a few years pòst ROTS and beg that vader doesnt decapitate him ?? not likely.
Vader was probably stronger than Palpatine in ROTS without the suit. It wouldn't have taken years. Vader likely would have killed Padme anyway before too long, because she would have rejected the power he offered.
1- i dont think vader was stronger than palps in ROTS,if he was even stronger than palps then he would have crushed obi wan in mustafar,angry overconfident and reckless or not.
2- were we disagree,vader would have never bring himself to willingly kill her,never.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:06pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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darth_frared posted:
i know we are all delusional about anakin and we don't understand one bit about him. thank you for showing me the light on that one. so, how about the person who came out all challenging and actiually made it look like he betrayed his best with his wife?
why would she have died anyway? how do you know?
The mercy me route I see.
How do I know Padme would have died? The answer is simple once you know what she died of. Just a hint - Force Choke is not the right answer.
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Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
Who's the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:09pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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were we disagree,vader would have never bring himself to willingly kill her,never.
i think that's a great point. anakin would not have wanted to kill her. i think it breaks him that she's dead and that he is told he did it. and of course, his actions are far from being inconsequential in it.
i just happen to think that we are not only determined by our inner workings, but also by outward circumstances. i strongly believe that anakin was pretty paranoid and that seeing obi-ewan drove him over the edge.
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