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Topic:
Would Padme have died if Obi-Wan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:14pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
1- i dont think vader was stronger than palps in ROTS,if he was even stronger than palps then he would have crushed obi wan in mustafar,angry overconfident and reckless or not.
Strength does not equate to victory.
sithrules70 posted:
2- were we disagree,vader would have never bring himself to willingly kill her,never.
You do know that Vader is a Sith don't you? Padme is a prized posession to him but if she didn't act right - she too had to face the consequences. Padme wasn't going to fall in line with Vader's pursuit of power. He would have got rid of her too. All men who put power first end up doing the same thing.
The boy who is in love with Padme more than anything else is gone once he becomes a Sith. Its not about love - its about power. Vader made it clear.
ANAKIN: I don't want to hear any more about Obi-Wan. The Jedi turned against me. Don't you turn against me.
Vader killed the Jedi because he felt they were against. Padme would have faced the same fate.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:14pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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2Cleva posted:
darth_frared posted:
i know we are all delusional about anakin and we don't understand one bit about him. thank you for showing me the light on that one. so, how about the person who came out all challenging and actiually made it look like he betrayed his best with his wife?
why would she have died anyway? how do you know?
The mercy me route I see.
How do I know Padme would have died? The answer is simple once you know what she died of. Just a hint - Force Choke is not the right answer.
thats were we disagree utterly.the force choke happened because of obi wan,and you have no evidence to back up the theory that he would have still choked her if obi wan wasnt there.
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Master_Shaitan
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:15pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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I agree with Darth Frared.
Anakin wasnt thinking properly. He lashed out and then tried to explain his actions away, once again pushing the blame on to Kenobi. He wouldnt ever have knowingly killed Padme. Her death crushed him.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:19pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Strength does not equate to victory.
90% of the times does.
You do know that Vader is a Sith don't you? Padme is a prized posession to him but if she didn't act right - she too had to face the consequences. Padme wasn't going to fall in line with Vader's pursuit of power. He would have got rid of her too. All men who put power first end up doing the same thing.
that prized possetion thing is a theory,when he knows she is dead he is truly broken ,if she was just some possesion like his starship i dont think he would have reacted that way,no way an evil sith is gonna scream like a baby for a "possesion".
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:20pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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2Cleva posted:
How do I know Padme would have died? The answer is simple once you know what she died of. Just a hint - Force Choke is not the right answer.
i think there's still a possibility of a droid saying it who knows nothing about anything...
i don't know what she dies off. she lost the will to live. and the force choke contributed to that, that's what i say. and obi-wan contributed to the force choke.
i know he's all virtuous and righteous, fine, but his presence does contribute to the force choke and henceforth to padme's death.
now mercy me. or whatever you'd like to do.
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illegalise stupidity.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:20pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
thats were we disagree utterly.the force choke happened because of obi wan,and you have no evidence to back up the theory that he would have still choked her if obi wan wasnt there.
I see you're ducking the question.
How did Padme die?
You're focusing on the choke. Vader may have waited until another time to do so, or killed her another way, but she was dead anyway. Why?
Again, how did Padme die?
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:24pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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2Cleva posted:
sithrules70 posted:
thats were we disagree utterly.the force choke happened because of obi wan,and you have no evidence to back up the theory that he would have still choked her if obi wan wasnt there.
I see you're ducking the question.
How did Padme die?
You're focusing on the choke. Vader may have waited until another time to do so, or killed her another way, but she was dead anyway. Why?
Again, how did Padme die?
i hate when people turn a complex question into a black or white answer.she died because ani was evil but if he hadnt choked her and knocker her out unconcious then she could have tried to convince him any further but guess what?? she was taking a nap and thanks to who ?? obi wan.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:27pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Master_Shaitan posted:
Anakin wasnt thinking properly. He lashed out and then tried to explain his actions away, once again pushing the blame on to Kenobi. He wouldnt ever have knowingly killed Padme. Her death crushed him.
Anakin was thinking like a Sith. Thats what he is. He wasn't mad at her death - he was made he lost his prized possession. Again - how did Padme die?
sithrules70 posted:
90% of the times does.
That's nice. But its clear that 10% happens often in the SW galaxy. Obi over Maul. Obi over Vader. Rebels over Empire. Ewoks over stormtroopers. On and on and on and on...
sithrules70 posted:
that prized possetion thing is a theory,when he knows she is dead he is truly broken ,if she was just some possesion like his starship i dont think he would have reacted that way,no way an evil sith is gonna scream like a baby for a "possesion".
Theory? Lucas himself says that Anakin's love for Padme is posessive. He was obsessed over her from the start of AOTC. Vader was screaming because he lost it.
darth_frared posted:
i think there's still a possibility of a droid saying it who knows nothing about anything...
darth_frared posted:
i don't know what she dies off. she lost the will to live. and the force choke contributed to that, that's what i say. and obi-wan contributed to the force choke.
She died of a broken heart and that was breaking before the choke ever happen.
darth_frared posted:
i know he's all virtuous and righteous, fine, but his presence does contribute to the force choke and henceforth to padme's death.
Is this the "devil made me do it" excuse. Obi has no control over Vader's actions. Quit blaming the victims.
darth_frared posted:
now mercy me. or whatever you'd like to do.
I'd like you to embrace the truth.
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Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
Who's the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:27pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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You do know that Vader is a Sith don't you? Padme is a prized posession to him but if she didn't act right - she too had to face the consequences. Padme wasn't going to fall in line with Vader's pursuit of power. He would have got rid of her too. All men who put power first end up doing the same thing.
The boy who is in love with Padme more than anything else is gone once he becomes a Sith. Its not about love - its about power. Vader made it clear.
ANAKIN: I don't want to hear any more about Obi-Wan. The Jedi turned against me. Don't you turn against me.
Vader killed the Jedi because he felt they were against. Padme would have faced the same fate.
vader isn't always the same vader. there are twenty years between the vader we have known and the psychotic killer we meet in ROTS. there is a progression. anakin would *not* have killed her.
master shaitan, do what you have to do, don't hesitate, show no mercy. 
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illegalise stupidity.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:32pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
i hate when people turn a complex question into a black or white answer.she died because ani was evil but if he hadnt choked her and knocker her out unconcious then she could have tried to convince him any further but guess what?? she was taking a nap and thanks to who ?? obi wan.
I hate when people make the simple, complicated. In the movie, it said she didn't die from any injury. Therefore the choke did not affect her health. She died because the one she loved took the path of all she was against. Of a broken heart. Accept it. It's really that simple.
darth_frared posted:
vader isn't always the same vader. there are twenty years between the vader we have known and the psychotic killer we meet in ROTS. there is a progression. anakin would *not* have killed her.
My god man. The progression does not start at ROTS. It clearly starts in AOTC, years before. There was a time when Anakin would joke about someone powerful being in charge. Now, he doesn't have to play around - he has the power.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:33pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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I'd like you to embrace the truth
the truth from your POV ??  .never. 
1- who says maul is stronger than obi wan ???
2- where did you get that AOTC anakin saw padme as a possesion ?? that idea is plain stupid.if you say ROTS vader i say maybe and a big maybe at that but AOTC anakin ??!?!  sorry but no,in episode II he really loved her,it had nothing to do with power or possesion or anything besides real love.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:36pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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what truth, 2cleva? your truth or my truth?
Anakin was thinking like a Sith. Thats what he is. He wasn't mad at her death - he was made he lost his prized possession. Again - how did Padme die?
she died. that's what i know. nobody can give a conclusive explanation. we have a droid, herself. and we have anakin saying he checked on her and she was still alright. and that's about it.
it's interpretation.
it breaks him to be told he killed her. because he loved her, you know, heard of that?
She died of a broken heart and that was breaking before the choke ever happen.
i'm with sithrules here. she did mean to talk sense to him and telling him that her heart is broken is making him see that he did wrong.
Is this the "devil made me do it" excuse. Obi has no control over Vader's actions. Quit blaming the victims.
now obi-wan is anakin's victim? and can you stop arguing in favour of monocausality? like we are all just driven by our internal workings and there's no outside to us?
the devil gave anakin an opportunity to do what he did, no more, no less. without palps anakin would certainly not have wiped out the jedi order, unless you pull that theory now out of yout hat. he would certainly not have killed the seperatists.
we aren't solely determined by our actions and ideas, we are also fed by other people. it's called interaction.
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illegalise stupidity.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:37pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i hate when people turn a complex question into a black or white answer.she died because ani was evil but if he hadnt choked her and knocker her out unconcious then she could have tried to convince him any further but guess what?? she was taking a nap and thanks to who ?? obi wan.
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I hate when people make the simple, complicated. In the movie, it said she didn't die from any injury. Therefore the choke did not affect her health. She died because the one she loved took the path of all she was against. Of a broken heart. Accept it. It's really that simple.
no i will not accept it,if she hadnt been taking a nap,wich was 50% obi wan's fault,she could have actually put some sense into anakin's thick skull.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:42pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
I'd like you to embrace the truth
the truth from your POV??
Oh brother. I'm sure the DVD will fill in the blanks for you and GL has made comments as well but the movie was enough for me.
sithrules70 posted:
1- who says maul is stronger than obi wan
The movies made it so. Maul was handling two Jedi with ease, killing a master and had Obi hanging by a string. Check out this movie called The Phantom Menace if you want to learn more.
sithrules70 posted:
2- where did you get that AOTC anakin saw padme as a possesion ?? that idea is plain stupid.if you say ROTS vader i say maybe and a big maybe at that but AOTC anakin ??!?! sorry but no,in episode II he really loved her,it had nothing to do with power or possesion or anything besides real love.
Real love? Please. The possession was clear. Going crazy for a woman he met when he was 10 and hadn't seen in years? Thats the roots of a possessive love all over it.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:43pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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well. let's not get lost in percentages.
i think you reduce it, 2cleva. fine. do so. i won't.
anakin is anakin and the one person who still believed in him was used as bait in this situation. and if not as bait then she was certainly put on the line, unknowingly by a vertain obi-wan kenobi. who, when she doesn't turn anakin around in 5 seconds, appears in the worst moment possible to have him think she betrayed him. congrats.
i don't know what killed her. i know it kills anakin to know she's dead.
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