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Topic:
Would Padme have died if Obi-Wan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:47pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Real love? Please. The possession was clear. Going crazy for a woman he met when he was 10 and hadn't seen in years? Thats the roots of a possessive love all over it.
another expert then? so, what is true love?
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:47pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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darth_frared posted:
what truth, 2cleva? your truth or my truth?
she died. that's what i know. nobody can give a conclusive explanation. we have a droid, herself. and we have anakin saying he checked on her and she was still alright. and that's about it. it's interpretation. it breaks him to be told he killed her. because he loved her, you know, heard of that?
A Sith knows nothing of love.
darth_frared posted:
i'm with sithrules here. she did mean to talk sense to him and telling him that her heart is broken is making him see that he did wrong.
Too many Saturday morning cartoons for you if you thought that would work at that time.
darth_frared posted:
now obi-wan is anakin's victim? and can you stop arguing in favour of monocausality? like we are all just driven by our internal workings and there's no outside to us? the devil gave anakin an opportunity to do what he did, no more, no less. without palps anakin would certainly not have wiped out the jedi order, unless you pull that theory now out of yout hat. he would certainly not have killed the seperatists. we aren't solely determined by our actions and ideas, we are also fed by other people. it's called interaction.
But its also about our own choices. Do you jump off a bridge because everyone else is? Anakin made his own choices and became Vader. Vader made his own choices and did what he did.
sithrules70 posted:
no i will not accept it,if she hadnt been taking a nap,wich was 50% obi wan's fault,she could have actually put some sense into anakin's thick skull.
 
That is so precious. I'm dying here.
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Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:49pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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laugh as much as you want,that only proves that you are just some fanboy without the maturity level to accept other people's opinion.just for the record im not gonna be unable to sleep in the night because i diagree with one fanboy.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:51pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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darth_frared posted:
well. let's not get lost in percentages.
i think you reduce it, 2cleva. fine. do so. i won't.
Didn't you bring percentages in the discussion in the first place?
darth_frared posted:
anakin is anakin and the one person who still believed in him was used as bait in this situation. and if not as bait then she was certainly put on the line, unknowingly by a vertain obi-wan kenobi. who, when she doesn't turn anakin around in 5 seconds, appears in the worst moment possible to have him think she betrayed him. congrats.
Anakin is gone at that point, don't you get it?
darth_frared posted:
i don't know what killed her. i know it kills anakin to know she's dead.
She dies of a broken heart and it surely doesn't kill Anakin. Anakin's thirst of power destroys him. And Vader seemed to get along quite OK as a Sith without Padme.
darth_frared posted:
another expert then? so, what is true love?
Anakin showed true love in ROTJ. He hadn't shown that kind of selfless love since TPM as a boy in his podracer.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:52pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
laugh as much as you want,that only proves that you are just some fanboy without the maturity level to accept other people's opinion. just for the record im not gonna be unable to sleep in the night because i diagree with one fanboy.
LOL. You're the one saying Padme needed more time to talk Vader back into Anakin after her nap and I'm the fanboy? That's rich.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:55pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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You guys collect your thoughts, huddle up, get backup or something, then come back with some new ideas on how to say "it's not Anakin's fault!"
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:55pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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2Cleva posted:
sithrules70 posted:
laugh as much as you want,that only proves that you are just some fanboy without the maturity level to accept other people's opinion. just for the record im not gonna be unable to sleep in the night because i diagree with one fanboy.
LOL. You're the one saying Padme needed more time to talk Vader back into Anakin and I'm the fanboy? That's rich.
of course i am.you have no evidence to prove that she couldnt convince him if that thight ass medler hadnt showed up in his cocky superman position.
sorry for insult you obi  you are my 4rd favorite character but you messed up big time in here.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 1:56pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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A Sith knows nothing of love.
anakin knows of love.
Too many Saturday morning cartoons for you if you thought that would work at that time.
i know it's an unpopular opinion, but i stick by it: talking to him is going to accomplish a lot more than just igniting saber and let combat talk. she means to calm him, obi-wan means to kill him. there's a discrepancy there, don't you think?
i don't know what saturday morning cartoons have to do with it.
But its also about our own choices. Do you jump off a bridge because everyone else is? Anakin made his own choices and became Vader. Vader made his own choices and did what he did.
yes, but a choice is also what is being presented to you at a given moment. the jedi council made awfully poor choices which everyone accepts because they are the bleeding council etc etc.
anakin makes the worst choices in the history etc etc and everyone is going on about how many times he could have refused. yeah, whatever. mass murder isn't something he wants to do, of course, but it's a mean to another end.
he doesn't mean to kill her. his heart breaks when he finds out he has. he isn't thinking straight. i know you won't have it because it's easier to believe he just turns with the flick of a switch, but this isn't how things work.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 2:02pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Didn't you bring percentages in the discussion in the first place?
no, i didn't. i find it amounts to comparing the size of penises.
Anakin is gone at that point, don't you get it?
no i don't get it. i've had enough of it anyway. since the rule here is always, if you are not with me you're my enemy, i take it you aren't interested in another view, or another interpretation.
good.
She dies of a broken heart and it surely doesn't kill Anakin. Anakin's thirst of power destroys him. And Vader seemed to get along quite OK as a Sith without Padme.
yeah, right. whatever. anakin never loved.
and my interpretation of it isn't worth sith. thank you for so patiently explaining my delusion.
Anakin showed true love in ROTJ. He hadn't shown that kind of selfless love since TPM as a boy in his podracer.
ah, i'm gonna miss that. thank you for categorizing it. true love is giving without reward. yes, i get it.
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 2:04pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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sithrules70 posted:
of course i am.you have no evidence to prove that she couldnt convince him if that thight ass medler hadnt showed up in his cocky superman position.
sorry for insult you obi you are my 4rd favorite character but you messed up big time in here.
This is too much. 
darth_frared posted:
anakin knows of love.
That isn't Anakin breaking Padme's heart.
darth_frared posted:
i know it's an unpopular opinion, but i stick by it: talking to him is going to accomplish a lot more than just igniting saber and let combat talk. she means to calm him, obi-wan means to kill him. there's a discrepancy there, don't you think?
You really think Vader was up for a chat about whats right and whats wrong?
darth_frared posted:
yes, but a choice is also what is being presented to you at a given moment. the jedi council made awfully poor choices which everyone accepts because they are the bleeding council etc etc.
anakin makes the worst choices in the history etc etc and everyone is going on about how many times he could have refused. yeah, whatever. mass murder isn't something he wants to do, of course, but it's a mean to another end.
we need a violin face.
he doesn't mean to kill her. his heart breaks when he finds out he has. he isn't thinking straight. i know you won't have it because it's easier to believe he just turns with the flick of a switch, but this isn't how things work.[/quote]Whether he intended to or not, his actions alone is what caused her to die. His turn starts in AOTC with the killing of the Tusken, don't you see? The seduction started from the moment TPM was over.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 2:04pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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you have no evidence to prove that she couldnt convince him if that thight ass medler hadnt showed up in his cocky superman position.
i'm with you, sithrules, just so you know.
off now, need to go to bed. 
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2Cleva
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 2:07pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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darth_frared posted:
Didn't you bring percentages in the discussion in the first place?
no, i didn't.
Anakin is gone at that point, don't you get it?
no i don't get it. i've had enough of it anyway. since the rule here is always, if you are not with me you're my enemy, i take it you aren't interested in another view, or another interpretation. good.
Ah, that was sithrules. I'm interested in plenty of POVs. But when they are wrong and obviously wrong, I'm not going to pretend they are valid.
darth_frared posted:
yeah, right. whatever. anakin never loved.
I said he loved - but in a selfish way. But that isn't Anakin on Mustafar.
darth_frared posted:
and my interpretation of it isn't worth sith. thank you for so patiently explaining my delusion.
You're welcome. Come again! 
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Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
Who's the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?
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RolandofGilead
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 2:11pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Let's try to refrain from posting about Users and argue the Topic.
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sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 2:21pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Ah, that was sithrules. I'm interested in plenty of POVs. But when they are wrong and obviously wrong, I'm not going to pretend they are valid.
thats exactly the point.you think we are wrong and you think you are right but you cant be 100% positive that you are right unless you are GL who i doubt you are.
as rolando said back to the topic.
i think she would have obviously died eventually,and thats what anakin failed to get,everything dies,even suns burn out.
i just dont think obi wan's presence in mustafar helped the situation and i dont see any other way around it.
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EwokThatCried
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
10/20/05 2:25pm
Subject:
RE: Would Padme have died if Obiwan hadn't snuck on board her ship?
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Obi-Wan didn't choke Padme, Anakin did. She was about to withdraw from Anakin and leave him anyway. Anakin would have stopped her.
I'm tired of this "devil made me do it" attitude regarding Anakin. He is responsible for his actions. Obi-Wan coming down the ramp did not require Anakin to chike Padme out. His own fear and paranoia drove him to do that heinous act.
At this point, Anakin is a horrible human being and deserved to catch on fire.
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