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Author	Topic: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
youwilldie23 Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 12/15/05 11:58pm Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	angelicusdiablos posted: Clearly you havent researched this in greater detail. I suggest you examine each deulist frame by frame to truly apreciate how distinct they are. Anybody with even the smallest knowledge of both western and eastern swordplay could see this. Even Christensen himself underwent a blatantly obvious fighting style change with the anakin/vader crossover. His lack of composure and vented aggresion are evident in how his fighting form, stance, footwork and gaurd . Even Windu's and Kenobi's are so completley distinguished from each other. Please do your homework before posting silliness like this. english please? -----signature----- palpatine:you will die!.luke:no,YOU will die!. palpatine:no,YOU WILL DIE!!,this goes on for hours,until... vader:SHADDUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Luke_SW Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 12/20/05 7:25pm Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	Unique or not, I thought the coreography of the saber duels, and all use of the lightsabers was best in ROTS. TPM was too pretty and elegant and showy AOTC was too dull, sloppy, and un-energetic but ROTS was just right masculine, aggressive, fierce, and precise without over-doing the unnecessary twirling and showing off as much as the other PT films I think I must like it best because out of the PT films, it's the closest to the saber action in the OT (only a lot faster lol)
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WitchKing66 Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 12/20/05 8:03pm Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	Luke_SW posted: Unique or not, I thought the coreography of the saber duels, and all use of the lightsabers was best in ROTS. TPM was too pretty and elegant and showy AOTC was too dull, sloppy, and un-energetic but ROTS was just right masculine, aggressive, fierce, and precise without over-doing the unnecessary twirling and showing off as much as the other PT films I think I must like it best because out of the PT films, it's the closest to the saber action in the OT (only a lot faster lol) i jsut watched AOTC agfter a long while and i have relevation to make: the effect of that movie (geonosis battle) is amazing the battle geonsis is much better than Utapau (Utapau was an abomination) the Dooku duel, man,,, i love dooku's style... so elegent and classy his duel with OB1 was good and realistic (although there are signs of things edited stuff), BUT his duel with anakin was crappy and badly edited and the light effects were bad and they way he cuts anakin arms was sooooo fake in slow motion; in ROTS, it was just small parts of anakin duel against dooku that was good the Dooku-yoda duel was at least 100 times better the sidious/yoda duel; man both yoda and dooku were spining like crazy; though i admit Yoda's model in ROTS is much improved than AOTC -----signature----- America will supposedly be the citadel of Freedom but in less than 200 years, the whole nation will be working for the divine World Government under the All seeing invisible Eye of Grand Architect of the Freemasons 1781 AD
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uwishuwereme Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 12/20/05 9:15pm Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	WitchKing66 posted: the Dooku-yoda duel was at least 100 times better the sidious/yoda duel I thought the duel in RotS was better because it was two contrasting styles instead of two styles that are alike,and I thought the fight in RotS had much better presentation with more dialogue before the duel,and the RotS duel was a lot more emotional and crucial to the fate of the galaxy. -----signature----- http://uwishuwereme.proboards76.com/index.cgi {Shadow Sith Army Apprentice to Moleman1138} Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat.
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inkswamp Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 12/20/05 11:10pm Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	Alexander_DeLarge posted: Supposedly Nick Gillard had put in this Herculian effort into making sure each Jedi/Sith had his/her own unique fighting style in ROTS. This "effort" however is conspicously absent (like Anakin's scar on the cover of the DVD) in the film. They all look identical, save Palpatine (chuckling) and Yoda. Your thoughts? The styles looked distinct to me. Don't so much pay attention to the heat-of-battle moves which seem less distinct to me, but watch how each fighter handles, holds and swings the saber around when not engaged directly with his opponent. The differences are more obvious then. -----signature----- LAME COMEBACK #1 - Lucas should have done it my way or it's wrong LAME COMEBACK #2 - I can't think metaphorically so it's a PLOT HOLE LAME COMEBACK #3 - Complex interpretations confuse me LAME COMEBACK #4 - Lucas must spoon-feed me every detail
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 12/20/05 11:26pm Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	youwilldie23 posted: angelicusdiablos posted: Clearly you havent researched this in greater detail. I suggest you examine each deulist frame by frame to truly apreciate how distinct they are. Anybody with even the smallest knowledge of both western and eastern swordplay could see this. Even Christensen himself underwent a blatantly obvious fighting style change with the anakin/vader crossover. His lack of composure and vented aggresion are evident in how his fighting form, stance, footwork and gaurd . Even Windu's and Kenobi's are so completley distinguished from each other. Please do your homework before posting silliness like this. english please? In TESB, Bob Anderson as Vader, switched to a two-handed style just before leaving the carbonite chamber. When the fight moves to the catwalk, Anderson starts fighting rather agressively. He's striking the walls and consoles and railings. He's trying to overwhelm Hamill as Luke. In ROTS, Hayden as Anakin switches to an agressive style on Mustafar. He's swinging fast and hard, not only connecting with Ewan's blade, but also hitting the walls and control panels. According to Gillard, one of the tough things about the Mustafar duel was having Hayden fight like Vader in the OT. It had to be done right, without limiting Hayden's skills since he's not wearing a forty pound suit and helmet. Lee's sword style is different. He uses a lot of back and forth movements, whereas most of the other actors use circular motions. Lee, being a fencer, could fight one handed as well as he could with both hands. Ewan and Hayden employ Asian styles, namely in their stances. Ewan used a stance similar in both Chinese and Japanese fighting, when he goes to fight the Magnadroids. Though Ewan's stance is a bit more like the Chinese style, namely as he uses a flashy twirl to move into the stance. And he has two left fingers up, which I've noted as being common in Chinese sword fighting films. The Japanese style doesn't require a flashy twirl and the left hand is usually palm open. Hayden uses a stance that I've seen in Japanese styles, where he holds his blade up high with the handgrip near the side of his head. This is when he calls his saber to his hand on the bridge of the Hand. Mark Hamill employed a similar stance before swinging at Palpatine in ROTJ. Liam Neeson used a variation where instead of holding it high, he holds the saber closer to his waist. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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sithrules70 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 12/21/05 4:31am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	maybe we dont see the styles in the mvoie because this whole fighting styles nonsense is stover's and EU material
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DarthJiangWei Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 12/21/05 5:47am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	yoshifett posted: Tachikoma-Kun posted: Whatta shilling is a Vappaaad anyway? Does it look different than normal lightsaber swinging? Click the link I provided and you can geek out on all the lightsaber styles, such as the much debated "vaapad," which apparently only has one practioner, Mace Windu. There's some stuff in the novel and the visual dictionaries where it mentions that it's a form that dances closely to the dark side, and allows the Jedi to "enjoy" the battle. Or something like that. Actually, nevermind, Duggy's right. Actually, Sora Bulq also used Vaapad. -----signature----- "All who have power are afraid to lose it!"-Palpatine/Sidious "You turned her against me!"-Darth Vader "Rejoice for those who transform into the Force. Mourn them Do not, miss them do not." Yoda
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WitchKing66 Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 12/21/05 7:17am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	darth-sinister posted: youwilldie23 posted: angelicusdiablos posted: Clearly you havent researched this in greater detail. I suggest you examine each deulist frame by frame to truly apreciate how distinct they are. Anybody with even the smallest knowledge of both western and eastern swordplay could see this. Even Christensen himself underwent a blatantly obvious fighting style change with the anakin/vader crossover. His lack of composure and vented aggresion are evident in how his fighting form, stance, footwork and gaurd . Even Windu's and Kenobi's are so completley distinguished from each other. Please do your homework before posting silliness like this. english please? In TESB, Bob Anderson as Vader, switched to a two-handed style just before leaving the carbonite chamber. When the fight moves to the catwalk, Anderson starts fighting rather agressively. He's striking the walls and consoles and railings. He's trying to overwhelm Hamill as Luke. In ROTS, Hayden as Anakin switches to an agressive style on Mustafar. He's swinging fast and hard, not only connecting with Ewan's blade, but also hitting the walls and control panels. According to Gillard, one of the tough things about the Mustafar duel was having Hayden fight like Vader in the OT. It had to be done right, without limiting Hayden's skills since he's not wearing a forty pound suit and helmet. Lee's sword style is different. He uses a lot of back and forth movements, whereas most of the other actors use circular motions. Lee, being a fencer, could fight one handed as well as he could with both hands. Ewan and Hayden employ Asian styles, namely in their stances. Ewan used a stance similar in both Chinese and Japanese fighting, when he goes to fight the Magnadroids. Though Ewan's stance is a bit more like the Chinese style, namely as he uses a flashy twirl to move into the stance. And he has two left fingers up, which I've noted as being common in Chinese sword fighting films. The Japanese style doesn't require a flashy twirl and the left hand is usually palm open. Hayden uses a stance that I've seen in Japanese styles, where he holds his blade up high with the handgrip near the side of his head. This is when he calls his saber to his hand on the bridge of the Hand. Mark Hamill employed a similar stance before swinging at Palpatine in ROTJ. Liam Neeson used a variation where instead of holding it high, he holds the saber closer to his waist. very nice, could you also go over AOTC; is there a website that covers all this iam no expert in swordfighting but really interested. im dont give a ** about in-universe Form VII etc, but more intrested in real-world connection. many thanks i guess we can also say that Yoda's stance before Sidious, was the same as Ewan's stance before Grevious, therefore of Chinese origin -----signature----- America will supposedly be the citadel of Freedom but in less than 200 years, the whole nation will be working for the divine World Government under the All seeing invisible Eye of Grand Architect of the Freemasons 1781 AD
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General_Kayman Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 12/21/05 7:22am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	That's not true! Dooku has his own very unique fighting style,very elegant Obi Wan's style is controlled always fighting with two hands Anakins style is very brutal, because he always has his shoulders foreward while fighting, you could say anakin uses his own style combinded with elements of obi wans and dooku's styles , Anakin also has more turns in his combat. Anakin and dooku lay more risk in their combat I would rather say Palpatine and mace have no style! -----signature----- Think of yourselves as a hand. Each of you is a finger, and without the others youre useless Alone, a finger cant grasp, or control, or form a fist You are Nothing on your own, and everything together Gra'tua cuun hett su dralshy'a
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vadersmyfather Registered: Dec '05	Date Posted: 12/21/05 7:34am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	I would rather say Palpatine and mace have no style! Everyone has to have 'a style'
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SithStarSlayer Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 12/21/05 9:03am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	Hey Yoshi, this look familiar? Heh Hehh Hehhh... After you read this post, when you go back and watch the duels in ROTS, you WILL SEE the subtle differences in each combatant's style. Especially at the beginning of the Anakin/Obi vs. Dooku duel. They Bait him... *** SithStarSlayer Registered: Oct '03 Date Posted: 7/21 2:23pm Subject: RE: Sidious' fighting style - Date Edited: 7/21 2:47pm (4 edits total) Edited By: SithStarSlayer Here you go folks... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The seven forms of lightsaber combat Each Jedi chooses the style of lightsaber combat that best suits him or her. For example, Master Yoda uses the Ataru form to compensate for his lack of reach and height; Mace Windu uses Vaapad to tap into his anger and employ it constructively (albeit without giving himself over to the Dark Side); Count Dooku's practice of the Makashi form fits first of all his intention to frequently engage in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat and second his emphasis on class and elegance as well as precision. Form I: Shii-Cho As the weapons technology of the lightsaber was developed, the need for a form of combat arose. Thus Form I was born. Ancient sword-fighting traditions held key principles of blade combat that were implemented by early Jedi Masters in the rather basic technical tactics of Form I. Form I, like its succeeding forms, includes the following basic techniques and concepts: attack, a set of attacks aimed at different body zones parry, a set of blocks to thwart any attack in the specified body zones body target zones (1, head, 2, left arm, 3, right arm, 4, back, 5, left leg, 6, right leg) training drills called velocities Younglings, the Jedi initiate rank, first learn Form I before they begin a Padawan apprenticeship with a Jedi Master. In Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, the Younglings can be seen being taught by Yoda to deflect light plasma shots. There were two known masters of Form I in the Star Wars Universe: Kit Fisto and Stass Allie. Though Kit Fisto was a master of Shii-Cho, he could not defeat Darth Sidious with it in Revenge of the Sith. Based on KOTOR 2 and the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, the Shii-Cho form is good versus many enemies wielding conventional blaster weaponry but weak versus a single lightsaber-wielding enemy and Force powers. Its simplicity is its strength, making it a very good style to use if all else fails. Form II: Makashi After Form I's proliferation as a saber combat technique, Form II came about as a means of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. It is described as being very elegant, powerful, and requiring extreme precision, allowing the user to attack and defend with minimal effort, while his opponent tires himself out. The form relies on parries, thrusts, and small, precise cuts—as opposed to the blocking and slashing of the other forms. The blade manipulation required for this form is very refined and requires much focus, but the results are extremely potent. However, as ranged weapons such as blasters come into play, or more than one opponent is present, the advantages of this form become obsolete. In the time near the Clone Wars, the Jedi Order seldom practices this technique. There is, if at all, so little lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat involved in a Jedi's life that Jedi Masters have found it impractical. However, Makashi was very common during the older years, before the advent of blasters, when melee weapons were abundant. Darth Tyranus (also known as Count Dooku), from Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, has mastered Form II to the highest degree, fighting with the precision built into the ancient technique. When he wields this form, it devastates the Jedi; the system of Jedi training at the time of confrontation between Darth Tyranus and other Jedi does not prepare the Jedi for the precise movements of a form bred for lightsaber dueling. This style is based on the Spanish style of fencing, "La Destreza Verdadera," which is often called the dance of sabres or the swords of truth; this style is fluid yet very rigid. Former separatist general Sev'rance Tann was also a practitioner of Form II. It is also possible that General Grievous was also a practitioner of this form since he was trained by Count Dooku. Form III: Soresu After Darth Maul's defeat on Naboo, Obi-Wan Kenobi decided to perfect his practice of Form III lightsaber combat, the most defensive of all of the forms, since Qui-Gon Jinn, Kenobi's mentor and Form IV (Ataru) master, fell against Darth Maul. Form III was originally developed to counteract the advancing blaster technology throughout the galaxy. Those to whom the Jedi were mainly opposed usually wielded blasters now; the Jedi needed to find a method to defend that could not be replicated or be counteracted by the Jedi's blaster-wielding enemies. Inspired by the need to parry blaster-fire, the form utilizes motions occurring very close to the body to achieve near-total protection, efficiently expending as little energy as possible to execute these moves. This technique exposes as little body target zone open areas as is possible, making a well-trained practitioner nearly invincible. Practitioners of Soresu comfortably remain on the defensive until their opponents tire or make a mistake, only then do they strike offensively. Luminara Unduli and Barriss Offee are also proficient in this form. By the time of the events in Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan Kenobi is acknowledged as "the master" of Soresu, often referred to as the classic form. Form IV: Ataru The master practitioners of Form IV make extensive use of acrobatic maneuvers often thought not physically possible. This form was created during the last centuries of the Old Republic. Qui-Gon Jinn and Yoda were both masters of Form IV, as shown in their duels against Darth Maul and Count Dooku, respectively. Obi-Wan Kenobi, though already very advanced, abandoned his Ataru training in favor of Form III because he felt that his master's death demonstrated a fatal flaw in the defensive capabilities of this form, nevertheless Kenobi applied Ataru acrobatics to face the Sith Lords Darth Tyranus and Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith. Aayla Secura is also a master of Ataru, according to Jan Duursema, who co-created the Twi'lek Jedi; Quinlan Vos had taught Aayla Form IV. Palpatine used a Sith variant of this form, which included stabs and wide swings. Cin Drallig might have used this form against Anakin in the Revenge of the Sith. In dire situations, Form IV practitioners use the Force to aid in their acrobatics. Spinning, jumping and running very fast and very high, masters of Form IV are sometimes only seen as a blur. In order to achieve the acrobatic prowess, amazing reflexes and physical punch of this form, a Jedi Master would focus on the Force, letting it flow deeply throughout his entire physicality, even allowing him to overcome the limitations of old age. Due to its aggressive nature, it is an effective form to use against single enemies; however, it leaves the user open to attacks from multiple opponents; therefore, it is wise to use Ataru in a duel, but not in open warfare. Form V: Shien / Djem So Form V is a powerful style developed by Form III practitioners that preferred a more offensive angle. The defensive nature of Form III often leads to dangerously prolonged combat. This style came about from combining Forms II and III. Anakin, both as himself and as Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, and Jedi Master Plo Koon are all practitioners of Form V. Jedi Master Agen Kolar may possibly have been a Form V practitioner since he favored aggressive negotiations. Form V maintains its existence through having sufficient defensive skills, as derived from Form III, but channeling defense into offense. The example is commonly used that while Form III combatants effortlessly deflect laser bolts, Form V practitioners excel at redirecting the laser bolt toward the opponent. This simultaneously defends the user and efficiently injures the opponent. As well, it employs a basic form of Form II's parries, allowing the user to parry the attempted attack, and counter it. It is different from Form III in the fact that practictioners of Form V will press the assault, using wide, sweeping blows in an attempt to overwhelm the opponent with brute strength. The aggressive philosophy of Form V is the source of many a Jedi's disapproval. Vader also created his own variant of Form V, where he would use only one hand to strike and defend, and have the other held casually by his side. This can be seen at the start of the duel in The Empire Strikes Back. With the aggressive but yet refined movements of Form II and the highly defensive postures of Form III, Shien / Djem So has been proven to be an effective style. Form VI: Niman The Form VI was the standard style at and around the time period of the Clone Wars and the Great Jedi Purge. This combat discipline is often called the "Diplomat's Form." One can see this in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones when many of the saber-wielders on Geonosis are killed. In fact, all of the Jedi using Form VI were killed at the Battle of Geonosis, including the Form VI practitioner Coleman Trebor, whose technique could not defend against most of Jango Fett's masterfully placed blaster shots. Form VI attempts to balance all elements of lightsaber combat, combining the Forms that came before into a less intensely demanding combat style. The result is that the users' skill in each individual areas of lightsaber combat is only moderate, making Form VI well suited for diplomats, as they can spend their time training in the areas of politics and negotiation instead of combat training. Form VII: Juyo Form VII was an incomplete form for millennia. It was further developed by Jedi Master Mace Windu, who could complete it with his Vaapad fighting style. The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms. Only three Jedi have ever mastered Vaapad fully: Mace Windu, Depa Billaba, and Sora Bulq, who instructed Quinlan Vos in a few of its basics. Sora Bulq helped Windu develop Vaapad, but Bulq and Mace's Padawan, Billaba, proved too weak to master the flow of the light and dark sides, and fell to the dark side. In this way, Vaapad mastered them. Sometimes used as another name for Form VII itself, Vaapad is in fact a "sub" form of Juyo. Standard Juyo contains sleek, fast movements with strong strikes, whereas Mace Windu's specialized Vaapad focuses the use of the Force and emotion to fuel attacks (which explains why Sora and Depa both fell to the dark side in using it, and explains why Mace Windu decided to attempt to kill Darth Sidious without letting him stand trial) normally used in Juyo. Regular Juyo can be mastered (or at least "sub-mastered") much more easily than Vaapad, but Juyo can never truly be used to its full extent unless training in Vaapad is taken. Standard Juyo is not as powerful as Vaapad, but lessens the risk of falling to the dark side. Intrepid, somewhat direct movements are used in combination with very advanced techniques involving Force-powered jumps and motions. Form VII does not appear as fancy as Form IV, but the technical details of it use very open movements resulting in a very unpredictable battle style. The staccato swings and flow of the form make it seem as if the attacks are not linked—but in reality, it is merely confusing the opponent. Form VII demands the emotional and physical intensity of Form V, but it much more effectively controls it (if mastered). Form VII, when fully mastered, results in extraordinary power. However, Vaapad borders on the edge of using the dark side, as it channels one's anger and darkness into the attack. Only Windu's mastery and concentration of the light side prevents him from succumbing, which is why Vaapad is rarely practiced and very dangerous. As mentioned above, the only two other known practitioners of Vaapad, Sora Bulq and Depa Billaba, both fell to the dark side of the Force. 4000 years before the Clone Wars, Juyo was one of the lightsaber forms that could be used, showing that even though Juyo was incomplete, it was still an effective form for millennia before Mace Windu completed it with Vaapad. Darth Maul used a variant of Juyo coupled with his knowledge of martial prowess. Vapaad gives the user a unique position for fighting darksiders, for when mastered, it allows the user to draw upon the dark side's strength. In Revenge of the Sith, Mace Windu might have been unable to defeat Sidious had it not been for his mastery of Vaapad. Other forms of lightsaber combat These forms are variants and sub-styles evolved from, or to be used with the 7 main lightsaber forms. They are founded on the basic principles of combat and survival, or were developed for own personal use. Sokan Developed by the ancient Jedi Knights during the Great Sith War, Sokan combined tactics that allowed for evasion and mobility with the kinetic motions of Form IV combat. Sokan involved swift strokes of the lightsaber, which were aimed towards the opponent's vital areas in addition to quick tumbles and movements. Combatants made use of large amounts of terrain, trying to maneuver their opponents into vulnerable areas during the course of battles that involved Sokan techniques. Obi-Wan employed elements of Sokan while dueling Anakin on Mustafar in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, when Obi-Wan sought the high ground and used his favourable positioning to defeat Anakin, attacking his weak points. Shien Shien uniquely involves a Jedi holding the lightsaber horizontally. The Jedi points the end of the blade at the opponent; it is swung in a fast arc while the Jedi punches their saber-hand at their opposing combatant, in a stabbing motion. Adi Gallia uses a personal variation of this Form, holding her saber vertically instead of horizontally, almost as if this Form is aiding the combat of others. Jar'Kai / Niman The dual saber Jar'Kai permitted a Jedi to fight with two lightsabers, one in each hand, as seen in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones by Anakin Skywalker. One of the blades in the wielder's hands was used for attacking while the other one was used for defending, such as parrying, or for more offensive power. Many Jedi trained to use the Niman style in the hopes of gaining a basic knowledge of the dual-bladed attack, but very few Jedi ever totally mastered Jar'Kai. Serra Keto, Sora Bulq, Asajj Ventress, Komari Vosa, and Joclad Danva (who can be seen wielding two lightsabers in the background during the Battle of Geonosis) were practitioners of Jar'Kai. Form X is sometimes known as Niman. (This Niman was not to be confused with the Form VI Niman.) Form "Zero" Form Zero was the basis for instruction of lightsaber combat that was originally defined by Jedi Master Yoda in describing the lightsaber technique of Felanil Baaks. The art of Form Zero lies in a lightsaber that has not been ignited. A Jedi cannot protect and serve the galaxy in the Jedi way if he/she does not know when to draw his/her sword and when to resort to different means of solving a problem. The knowledge, understanding, and wisdom behind the idea of right and wrong encompassed the idea that a Jedi who feels the necessity to use Form Zero, the absense of violence, is truly gifted in the ways of the Force. Dun möch The Sith aimed to completely dominate an opponent's spirit through whatever means possible by employing their own lightsaber combat doctrine. Dun möch commonly involved spoken taunts, jeers, and jests that exposed the opponent's hidden, inner weaknesses and/or doubts. Other variations on dun möch involved usage of the Force to throw large, weighty objects at the Sith's opponent during combat, which both distracts the opponent from the battle and could potentially cause damage. Darth Vader uses this against Luke Skywalker in The Empire Strikes Back. Count Dooku and Darth Sidious use it against Jedi Master Yoda in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, respectively. Count Dooku uses this against Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in Revenge of the Sith. Saber throw The Jedi or Sith employ an attack in rare instances to use the cutting power of their lightsabers for an object at an unreachable location called the saber throw, or a throwing of his or her lightsaber. The lightsaber is thrown; usually the blade tip spins in a circular motion about the hilt; and the saber hits its target, usually to cut it. Skilled practitioners will use the Force to manipulate the trajectory of the lightsaber and then redirect it back to their hand. When Yoda fought his way into the Jedi Temple in Revenge of the Sith, he used this technique to kill an attacking clone trooper. When Luke Skywalker jumped atop a suspended catwalk in Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader threw his lightsaber to bring the catwalk crashing to the ground; some say that Darth Vader lacked the physique, speed, and Force power to jump atop the catwalk himself to continue the duel, while others count this as an example of his mastery of many techniques of the Force, confusing and intimidating his younger, less knowledgeable opponent; a third opinion states that Vader tried to avoid fighting an opponent on higher ground, given the outcome of his first battle with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Tràkata This is a form of lightsaber combat unique to only one or two of the most powerful Jedi. The Jedi will keep the lightsaber in their grasp but will keep it turned off. The Jedi will then dodge or defend any attacks using the Force. Some of the more skilled Jedi may launch attacks using the Force in-between sweeps of the opponent's lightsaber. They will then wait until the right moment and swiftly turn the lightsaber on and off, sending the blade through the enemy's body. This will instantly wound or kill the enemy. This technique is difficult to master and to use it the Jedi must be very powerful with the Force. It is considered to be a dark form of combat as it takes the enemy by surprise and can be also used outside a lightsaber duel to dispose of somebody in close quarters. It is best used in lightsaber dueling but can also be used to avoid blaster fire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The unorthodox -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Several techniques fall outside the traditional and practiced forms of the Jedi. Characters, such as General Grievous in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, can employ more varied movements. His attacks are intended to misdirect and confuse traditionally trained sword fighters. Grievous is exceptionally capable at this due to the flexibility of his joints, robotic reflexes, and his many limbs. Only the most experienced and talented of Jedi can withstand his attacks. For example, Grievous can hold one lightsaber in each of his four hands, spinning two of them very rapidly in front of him, acting as a shield. Grievous uses this against Obi-Wan on Utapau, but Obi-Wan manages to overcome this, biding his attack, and finally timing his strike through the whirling lightsaber shield. Another unique lightsaber style is that of Adi Gallia (a victim of Grievous), who holds her saber with a one-handed reverse grip (backhand style). This is a personal variation of Shien, much as Vaapad is Mace Windu's personal variation of Form VII. Maneuvers and marks of contact All ten forms of lightsaber combat utilize these ancient terms used by the Jedi for describing the objectives, maneuvers to use, and the various outcomes that could arise out of a fight involving lightsabers as weapons. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marks of contact -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cho mai The term cho mai is used to describe the action of cutting off an opponent's weapon hand. This move shows that the Jedi using it has the honor to cause the opponent minimal physical damage; it also shows the skill and mastery of the Jedi performing the move to the opponent. This is exemplified in such cases as when Anakin Skywalker cut off both Count Dooku's hands (before decapitating him) in Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith, when Darth Vader cut off Luke Skywalker's hand in Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back, or when Luke returned the favor in Episode 6: Return of the Jedi. Cho mak A cho mak is the act of cutting off an opponent's limb, such as a humanoid's leg. This can be seen when Obi-Wan slashed Anakin's remaining biological arm and both of his legs during their epic duel in Revenge of the Sith. Cho sun The term cho sun is used to describe the move used to cut off an opponent's weapon arm, such as when Count Dooku defeated Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones and when Anakin defeats Count Dooku in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Sai cha The term sai cha is used to describe the rare instance when a Jedi beheads his or her opponent. This is often reserved for the most dangerous of enemies—ones who a Jedi cannot afford to let live. This is an example of what Anakin Skywalker did to Count Dooku in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (although Dooku was sufficently incapacitated) and what Mace Windu did to Jango Fett in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones. Sai tok A sai tok, frowned upon by the Jedi because of its Sith-like nature, is the act of cutting an opponent in half, usually separating his or her legs from torso at the waist. It is performed by Jedi Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi against Darth Maul in The Phantom Menace. Shiak The term shiak is used to describe the honorable action of stabbing an opponent. Although used differently by Darth Maul when he stabbed Qui-Gon Jinn in Episode I: The Phantom Menace. Same as Palpatine stabbing Agen Kolar's stomach in Revenge of the Sith. Shiim A shiim is a more minute, considered inferior, wound to an opponent by the edge of a lightsaber's blade. It is also considered a sign of desperation or struggle against a potent enemy, such as when Luke grazed Darth Vader's shoulder during their duel at Bespin in The Empire Strikes Back. It is also seen in Star Wars Episode II: The Attack of the Clones in the instance where Count Dooku grazes Obi-Wan's right arm . Sun djem A sun djem is an attack used by Jedi that disarms the weapon of an opponent, the objective usually being not to physically harm the opponent, such as when Master Mace Windu kicked Darth Sidious' lightsaber away during their duel in Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith and when Count Dooku disarmed one of Anakin's lightsabers in Episode 2: Attack of the Clones (although the lightsaber was destroyed in the process). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maneuvers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jung A jung in lightsaber combat is a 180-degree turn. Jung ma The term jung ma is used to describe a maneuver used by Jedi to perform a 360-degree spin in which power is gained for an imminent attack on the opponent. Kai-kan Not a maneuver per se, but the kai-kan is a re-enactment of a famous, usually ancient, very dangerous, lightsaber or even sword battle, which only very well trained Jedi attempt to perform. Sai A sai is the term used to describe the move used by Jedi to evade an attack directed at their legs. The Jedi jumps up with the Force as the main backbone of the strength, height, and speed at which the jump is executed. The Jedi can then strike downwards, using his fall as a fulcrum for more power. Shun The term shun is used for when a 360-degree turn is performed with just a one-handed grip, thus gaining speed for an attack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sith Variations: Teräs Käsi Darth Maul was the martial art Master of this form in the Star Wars mythos. A variant of Juyo, it utilizes extremely quick, devestating strikes to end the fight quickly. Many of their moves are so fast that the artist almost appears a blur, but at the same time, they are so precise that they almost never miss. The art of Teräs Käsi itself presumably died out at the time of the fall of the Jedi Knights. Along with Echani, the martial art of the Emperors Royal Guards, and Jedi combat training, it is one of the most powerful martial arts in the Star Wars universe. The Teräs Käsi artist has four different skill sets that defind him or her: Balance Conditioning, Meditative Techniques, Power Techniques, and Precision Techniques. Some Teräs Käsi moves and forms are named after familiar Star Wars creatures, such as "Rancor Rising" and "Riding Bantha." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If Maul knew it, then Sidious had to be able to teach it...Right? When you read the description above it sound alot like how Sidious wielded his saber against the posse and Mace. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Enjoy! source: Wikipedia -----signature----- Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction o[[]\|[ooooooooooo]\|[0]\|[\|]\|[
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i_dont_know Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 12/21/05 9:47am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	The variety in each duelist's style was very apparent after second viewing of the movie. Only Tyrannus uses what I'll call the "upside-down stance". One point he does it is when Anakin kicks him over the railing and jumps down after him. As Anakin jumps down Dooku holds the sabre behind him in a unique stance. He holds the sabre upside down and blocks a few horizontal slashes by moving it left to right. Obi-Wan I think is much more "neat" than Anakin usually. A lot of defensive stances as well. When they actually duel each other you can see that Obi-Wan isn't trying anything too risky. He's pretty much going with the flow. Anakin takes much wider swings, he seems to put a lot more of his weight into it than Kenobi. (This is particularly noticeable when he's getting "serious" just before the end of the Tyrannus duel). Anakin also employs a few Maul-esque one handed "sweeping" type swings, almost taking off Obi-Wan's legs at one point.
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Adm_Thrawn Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 12/21/05 11:52am Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	Save for a few cool twists and turns here and there, most of the duels (most) consisted of 45° blows over and over again until one of the duelists decided that maybe now was a good time to duck and run into another room. -----signature----- Delta Co., 080111 SOI/ITB Class 2-08 03 Killa Semper Fidelis
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 12/21/05 12:06pm Subject: RE: All fighting styles looked the same in ROTS
	WitchKing66 posted: very nice, could you also go over AOTC; is there a website that covers all this iam no expert in swordfighting but really interested. im dont give a ** about in-universe Form VII etc, but more intrested in real-world connection. many thanks i guess we can also say that Yoda's stance before Sidious, was the same as Ewan's stance before Grevious, therefore of Chinese origin Yoda's stance is based a bit on the Japanese stance, when he raises his saber up before launching his attacks. It's the same with both duels. When he pulls his saber out and ignites it, he points it at Sidious as if he were pointing his finger at him. Then he moves into his stance. Here's a brief article from Echostation about the duels for AOTC. A second one published in 99. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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