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Topic:
Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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brook_33
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
1/1/06 12:08pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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Icestar63 posted:
brook_33 posted:
hey, let's make a chart:
level 9: anakin, yoda, mace, sidious
level 8: obi-wan
let's fill in the other characters like luke, grievous, maul, dooku, quigon, and such.
i'd probably say this:
level 8.5: dooku
level 8: luke, maul
level 7: grievous, quigon
those jedi never got any level, The jedi with the higher lightsaber ranking do not always win.
Edit- sorry about the double post, I just forgot I made a post before this one. next time I will remember to check if I made a post
What do you mean never got any level? Everybody is at a certain level. It's like Dragon Ball Z and power rankings.
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/1/06 12:25pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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brook_33 posted:
Icestar63 posted:
brook_33 posted:
hey, let's make a chart:
level 9: anakin, yoda, mace, sidious
level 8: obi-wan
let's fill in the other characters like luke, grievous, maul, dooku, quigon, and such.
i'd probably say this:
level 8.5: dooku
level 8: luke, maul
level 7: grievous, quigon
those jedi never got any level, The jedi with the higher lightsaber ranking do not always win.
Edit- sorry about the double post, I just forgot I made a post before this one. next time I will remember to check if I made a post
What do you mean never got any level? Everybody is at a certain level. It's like Dragon Ball Z and power rankings.
yes in Dragon ball Z every Z fighter has a power level but not every one knows all there power levels. But in star wars Gillard only ranked some of them, But the rankings are not in Star Wars, The midichorans are kind of the power rankings in Star Wars.
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brook_33
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
1/2/06 2:06pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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Well then let's make an assumption based on what we've seen in the movies and read in the eu. Would you guys put Anakin and Sidious in 9? Gillard says 9 is the dark side, but does that mean Yoda, Mace, and Obi-wan can't get past lvl 8? I know Obi is lvl 8, but does he have the potential to get any better?
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/2/06 7:31pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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So now we're going to start giving ranks to the Jedi based on what we saw of them in the films? Did no one else realize the message ROTS shows so plainly? The Jedi and Sith are organic flesh and bone. Almost all of the Jedi in the Battle of Geonosis were slain by blaster fire. We saw Secura and many others succumb to blaster fire. They're certainly good fighters and Force adepts, but it doesn't make them invulnerable due to said mastery. Dooku had as much chance to beat Anakin as Anakin did to beat the Emporer.
The point I'm trying to make is not to tick off the OT or PT fans. The point is that every fighter in the history of war had a chance to beat their opponent in one way or the other. In Dooku's case it was that Anakin was a better duelist than he himself gave him credit to being. I'm NOT saying that Dooku was in any way stronger than Anakin, just that Anakin was a living being and that given the right circumstances anything is possible. The way you guys are making it sound insinuates that the Emporer's Force Lightning should have killed Vader the second he tried to kill him based on its' intensity and of his mastery of the Force. In reality, Vader tosses him down to his demise. He DID die, admitedly. But the point is that Vader (a cyborg for the most part) was able to take down the Emporer despite the fact that it was a sudden move and that his body could not handle the stress of the Force Lightning for long based on his internal mechanics.
No knock to Mace fans, but when Mace Windu (who, by your estimation, was weaker than the Emporer yet stronger than Anakin) went up against the same aforementioned Lightning he was left screaming in pain and thrown out a window to his demise. You guys love to underestimate Anakin's strength yet don't like to throw things like this into the mix. Another valid point: to say that the Emporer would have flash-fried Anakin is to say that Anakin was on equal standings with Luke, which is impossible given the fact that Lucas himself admitted Vader only had a remnant of Anakin's power on Mustafar. And to say that the Emporer was just toying with Luke is to say that he was holding out against Yoda, who received the same assault at the same intensity. Granted, he turned it up on both occasions with mixed results. But the point is that Luke and Yoda had a vast divide between them. To tie this in completely with the rest of my post, to say that Luke was weaker than Yoda puts Anakin somewhere in between the two in terms of strength in the Force since he was stronger than Luke when he fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar. It also demonstrates that he would have had mixed results with it without a proper tutelage on how to combat it.
And if you say that Anakin was weaker than Mace Windu consider this: if the Emporer really was toying with Windu as his much more intense bout with Yoda demonstrates than he would have undoubtedly had faith that Windu was weaker than Anakin since the point of fighting on Windu's skill level in the first place would have been to goad Anakin into aiding him. I'm not trying to argue if he could block it- I think that's been argued enough. I'm just trying to show that he would have had a better chance of withstanding it long enough to retaliate. In summation, if you want to rank people in such a fashion then I believe my post has proven (in the most admittedly roundabout way possible) that it would go something like this:
(Ranking 1 as strongest and 5 as weakest)
1. *Sidious/ Yoda
2. Anakin Skywalker
3. Luke Skywalker
4. Vader
5. Mace Windu
*I put them on equal ranking since the culmination of their fight showed that Yoda could stalemate Sidious in a duel of Force mastery, but could not continue the bout for whatever preconcieved reason (age, lack of preparation or what have you)
On a final thought, if you look at my list and claim that it is wrong notice how I stated that lists of power rankings were faulty. My list intentionally classifies them so that you can see that the method of ranking is flawed in the first place. Obi-Wan and Dooku are missing there because their power was never fully displayed on the widescreen in my opinion to be valid to the Anakin-Sidious comparison. What I said at the beginning of the post wasn't to make a wall of text, either. I sincerely believe that had things been in the right situation that Anakin could have lost to Dooku or Windu for that matter. His presence in the Windu-Sidious bout just goes to show you that even the slightest compulsive action could change the advantageous in one of these fights to one of the fallen.
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farrellg
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/2/06 7:57pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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Another valid point: to say that the Emporer would have flash-fried Anakin is to say that Anakin was on equal standings with Luke, which is impossible given the fact that Lucas himself admitted Vader only had a remnant of Anakin's power on Mustafar.
Anakin might not be any better at blocking lightning than Luke is. If the Emperor can easily electrocute Luke, I think people would assume that he can do the same to Anakin.
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/2/06 8:32pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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I'm not trying to argue if he could block it- I think that's been argued enough. I'm just trying to show that he would have had a better chance of withstanding it long enough to retaliate.
I'll let my own words and logic defend itself, farrellg.
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/2/06 9:04pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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If Anakin ever challenged the Emperor Anakin would not stand a chance,
The Emperor would beat Anakin in one second by using force lighting.
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DS_Emp_Viper
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
1/2/06 9:31pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama posted:
I'm not trying to argue if he could block it- I think that's been argued enough. I'm just trying to show that he would have had a better chance of withstanding it long enough to retaliate.
I'll let my own words and logic defend itself, farrellg.
Then you need to get some better logic. Anakin was knocked out of the fight with Dooku with a lightning blast...and it wasent even sustained.
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/2/06 10:35pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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...He then went on to make Dooku's years of honed duelling skill look like a petulant Padawan trying to fence with a Master, thus proving what a puppet he had become in the grander scheme of things. Not a great example of how supreme the Emporer was in comparison, and an even weaker example as to his submission to Dooku's superior skills.
Interesting to see how a valid personal opinion somehow incites a personal attack against my logic. Nice to see you're still around here 'enlightening' everyone else, DS.
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brook_33
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
1/3/06 12:16am
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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Is you stuck ROTJ Luke in ROTS how do you think he would fair?
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yaddidameen
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
1/3/06 2:18pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama posted:
...He then went on to make Dooku's years of honed duelling skill look like a petulant Padawan trying to fence with a Master, thus proving what a puppet he had become in the grander scheme of things. Not a great example of how supreme the Emporer was in comparison, and an even weaker example as to his submission to Dooku's superior skills.
Interesting to see how a valid personal opinion somehow incites a personal attack against my logic. Nice to see you're still around here 'enlightening' everyone else, DS.
he then went on to lose both legs and another arm. see, i can be yuppy too. calm down on the subtle insults, we can pick them up.
on another note, vader killed the emperor, by picking the emperor up while the emperor was turned around. compare that to this. the emperor's force lightning killed vader when the lightning itself wasn't even aimed at vader, it probably wasn't aimed at anything at that point. but compare the two, who seems more powerful?
oh you wanted a rots explaination? anakin was shown to be incredibly powerful but incredibly stupid, me thinks smart>stupid? me no know.
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SLASHAXL
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
1/3/06 4:05pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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I think Anakin would have killed sidious in a duel.
Anakin would have anticipated force lightening from sidious, as he had seen him use it against
Windu and had also felt it when he got zapped by Dooku in Ep2.
Although Anakin would have probably needed his lightsaber in order to block it as i doubt he
had the experience to block it with his hands.
The problem with luke was that he didnt expect lightening, as he most likely never seen it before. And he had thrown his weapon away. But if he had of kept his saber he would've had a
chance against sidious.
Plus Anakin was way more powerful Ep3 than luke in Ep6.
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farrellg
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/3/06 7:47pm
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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And he had thrown his weapon away. But if he had of kept his saber he would've had a
chance against sidious.
I don't know if Luke can block lightning with a saber. He might not be strong enough to hold off the Emperor's powers. Luke doesn't block any lightning with his hands, which suggests he's completely incapable of defending against that power.
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Mandalore_X
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/4/06 8:22am
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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Mandalore_X posted:
SithStarSlayer posted:
According to DARK LORD: The Rise Of Darth Vader, "Anakin was the most powerful Jedi the Order had ever seen."
What page #?
Once again I ask,where was this stated?
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theBluePhoenix
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
1/4/06 11:05am
Subject:
RE: Is Anakin really more powerful than Palpatine?
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Sidious’ line "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us." says it all. I love that line (and the way Ian delivers it) and I feel that it’s one of the best lines in the whole movie. Considering Anakin’s midichlorian count, he had the potential to become THE most powerful force user ever, par none!
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