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Topic:
All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 5:40pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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DUGGY posted:
well the Way Mace took the Prophecy into his own hands, they may as well have just left him To gaurd the Temple singlehandedly.
I must admit, I've never understood this "Mace taking the Prophecy into his own hands" angle at all.
It's like you are watching your wife get mugged right in front of your own eyes and you are supposed to stand there and say: "Don't worry, judgement will come, it is written in the bible. You just go right ahead and mug her..."
Why didn't Yoda try and revive Anakin rather than fight Dooku?
Why didn't Obi just say "Go right ahead and kill Dooku Anakin, you are, after all, the Chosen One..." on Geonosis?
It's all just like some weird double standard, like Mace should have any reason for thinking the whole Prophecy of the Chosen One hinges on arresting Palpatine and removing him from office, anymore than anyone else should think any other moment in the saga is the fulcrum on which the Prophecy rests.
Mace is not watching the films with hindsight - he's a character in them.
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DUGGY
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:01pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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It's all just like some weird double standard, like Mace should have any reason for thinking the whole Prophecy of the Chosen One hinges on arresting Palpatine and removing him from office, anymore than anyone else should think any other moment in the saga is the fulcrum on which the Prophecy rests.
Mace is not watching the films with hindsight - he's a character in them.
exactly Mace is a Character in the Movies. and as a Senior Character/Jedi he should also be aware that the Jedi are at war with the Sith. the Chosen one is meant to destroy the Sith. so when the Chosen one comes in to reveal the Sith, and wants to go and arrest him, Mace opts to leave the Prophecy/Chosen one/Anakin out of the equation and take care of business himself. that is Disregarding the Chosen one and the Prophecy . what is Anakin there for , if not to confront the Sith?. regardless of Anakin's intention, and Mace's distrust of him. the Chosen ones Time had come, and Mace said NO. "Take a seat" , wait in the council chamber. this was IT . Mace made a poor judgement call that brought down the House.
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thechozn1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:07pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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I guess Mace thought the prophecy meant that the chosen one would come tattle tale on the sith lord and that's where his job ended 
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halfwits-r-us
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:10pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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man did I start another mace argument, I am sorry guys  But yeah Mace's interference with the prophecy did in fact lead to the temple not having it's most powerful protector that being both anakin and Mace.
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DUGGY
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:14pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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thechozn1 posted:
I guess Mace thought the prophecy meant that the chosen one would come tattle tale on the sith lord and that's where his job ended
 looks that way to me.
I don't know how after Mace say's " I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi " and when Anakin comes in and reveals the Jedi's most mortal enemies identity, Mace could not think that Anakin was doing what the Chosen one should be doing?. they were at war. they were spread thin, they had it all on the line. and Mace never saw any of the Signs.? I guess he really did not put much stock in the Prophecy. cause in my eyes it looks like Anakin came through just in the Nick of time.... But it did not Matter. Mace had it all under control.
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:18pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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DUGGY posted:
exactly Mace is a Character in the Movies. and as a Senior Character/Jedi he should also be aware that the Jedi are at war with the Sith. the Chosen one is meant to destroy the Sith.
Let's put it this way.
If you knew a big storm was heading your way, would you start hammering those planks together and gathering two of every species of animal on Earth together...?
Or would you do the sensible thing and just clear off out of it?
The Prophecy MAY have been misread.
Only hindsight tells us the Prophecy can be fulfilled.
Everything else in the saga at that juncture points to Anakin screwing up big time.
And this is proven, he does not do the right thing for another 20-odd years.
Anakin would NEVER have killed Palpatine as long as he thought he could save Padmé - I think that is made quite clear.
So Mace did the right thing.
Anakin was a mess, he was not to be trusted.
At that point in the saga, he may as well have NOT been the chosen one - that's how I've come to see it.
But I see where you are coming from - maybe it was all about faith.
Maybe Mace was one of MANY Jedi who had lost faith at this point in the saga.
But I have to ask again, when the **** hits the fan, what do you put your faith in?
I'm betting it's not some old prophecy...
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:23pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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brilliantly obvious thread, FifthofObi -- a handful of Jedi face thousands of adversaries in the arena during AOTC and amazingly come away victorious -- One newly christened Sith and a few hundred troopers in ROTS and the whole Temple falls? Color me confused.
Sure, many Jedi were off wrapping up the Clone Wars, but many also were likely 'in the nest,' not just Padawans but full-blown Jedi. And what? The Jedi don't have a security system or a lookout that tells them a legion of Clone Troopers is approaching unannounced?
Yes, I too was wondering just how Yoda and Obi-Wan accomplish their amazing two-man penetration of the Clone occupied Temple? One would think that if the beacon was set to bring the Jedi back to the Temple, a surprise force consisting of numerous lethally armed Troopers would be waiting for them.
The answer must simply be that the Jedi Temple is the most difficult if not utterly impossible fortress to defend in the entire galaxy . . . . . no matter who occupies it!
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halfwits-r-us
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:43pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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obi chron posted:
brilliantly obvious thread, FifthofObi -- a handful of Jedi face thousands of adversaries in the arena during AOTC and amazingly come away victorious -- One newly christened Sith and a few hundred troopers in ROTS and the whole Temple falls? Color me confused.
Clones helped win the batle of the arena in Geonosis, without them the jedi were finished. Plus the clones were much better at fighting than droids.
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DUGGY
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 6:59pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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But I see where you are coming from - maybe it was all about faith.
Maybe Mace was one of MANY Jedi who had lost faith at this point in the saga.
That totally was my point. For all tyhe Talk of Chosen one, and Prophecy in the PT. and the fact they were fighting a Clandestine War with the Sith, and Anakin is being touted as the Chosen one, I don't know what Mace was thinking.
But I have to ask again, when the **** hits the fan, what do you put your faith in?
I'm betting it's not some old prophecy...
well when you are pretty much deaf/dumb/blind as the Jedi are. you better have some faith in the Force and the Prophecy. cause as History in the GFFA proves , Anakin really was the Chosen one.
But anyways i respect your POV too, and the last thing i want to do is get into a Mace debate. 
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 8:05pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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One would think that if the beacon was set to bring the Jedi back to the Temple, a surprise force consisting of numerous lethally armed Troopers would be waiting for them.
The clones were expecting individual unsuspecting jedi to return to the temple at various times. Keep in mind, the clones are cloned from Jango Fett, not the brightest bulb in the galaxy. 
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 11:50pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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DUGGY posted:
But I see where you are coming from - maybe it was all about faith.
Maybe Mace was one of MANY Jedi who had lost faith at this point in the saga.
That totally was my point. For all tyhe Talk of Chosen one, and Prophecy in the PT. and the fact they were fighting a Clandestine War with the Sith, and Anakin is being touted as the Chosen one, I don't know what Mace was thinking.
Anakin's attitude is calling into question his status as the Chosen One, as well as the validility of the prophecy. When Anakin starts acting like he does, it's hard to trust someone who is giving them every reason not to trust him. Obi-wan only has the trust and it's due to his bond with Anakin, as well as his promise to Qui-gon. If Anakin fails to do his duty as a Jedi, then he may not be the Chosen One afterall.
DUGGY posted:
But I have to ask again, when the **** hits the fan, what do you put your faith in?
I'm betting it's not some old prophecy...
well when you are pretty much deaf/dumb/blind as the Jedi are. you better have some faith in the Force and the Prophecy. cause as History in the GFFA proves , Anakin really was the Chosen one.
But anyways i respect your POV too, and the last thing i want to do is get into a Mace debate.
See above. Mace left Anakin behind because it was the right thing to do. He's confused. Easily manipulated and swayed. Mace knows that his personal feelings will be a hinderence to him and he cannot afford to have that happen. Not when dealing with the Dark Lord of the Sith. As we see, Mace was correct for not putting his full trust into Anakin. He did betray them, after all.
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EwokThatCried
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
11/22/05 11:55pm
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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Everything that Anakin ends up doing is proof positive that Mace was right not to trust him and to insist he remain behind.
It's not Mace's distrust that caused Anakin to do what he did.
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PMT99
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
11/23/05 3:56am
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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darth-sinister posted:
Anakin's attitude is calling into question his status as the Chosen One, as well as the validility of the prophecy. When Anakin starts acting like he does, it's hard to trust someone who is giving them every reason not to trust him. Obi-wan only has the trust and it's due to his bond with Anakin, as well as his promise to Qui-gon. If Anakin fails to do his duty as a Jedi, then he may not be the Chosen One afterall.
The Jedi have NEVER trusted Anakin since TPM....long before Anakin even gave them a reason not to trust him. The second Anakin came in their doorstep, their reactions are as followed: "He will not be trained. He's too old.", "The boy is dangerous", "Grave danger I fear in his training". No matter what Anakin does, the Jedi never gave him any chances and because of that, Anakin had no reason to trust them again which is why he betrays them.
darth-sinister posted:
See above. Mace left Anakin behind because it was the right thing to do. He's confused. Easily manipulated and swayed. Mace knows that his personal feelings will be a hinderence to him and he cannot afford to have that happen. Not when dealing with the Dark Lord of the Sith. As we see, Mace was correct for not putting his full trust into Anakin. He did betray them, after all.
But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy on Mace's part.
Like Qui-Gon said, "Your focus determines your reality" and since Mace spent 13 years treating Anakin as if he was a threat, that he fulfilled his vision as a result of leaving Anakin behind. If you're going to treat someone like they are a problem, then that is exactly what they will become.
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Jedi-Queen
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
11/23/05 4:01am
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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"If you're going to treat someone like they are a problem, then that is exactly what they will become"
Poor Ani, so mistreated. I guess he had no brain of his own
to speak of b/c everyone else is to blame for his decisions
and ultimate fall. The need to explain away his own actions
by blaming everyone and everything else around him is
amazing. I don't think anyone felt the need to do that for
the OT Vader. Prob b/c Vader wasn't seen as a young cook maverick
with curly hair and dreamy eyes? lol 
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PMT99
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
11/23/05 4:08am
Subject:
RE: All the Jedi in the Temple can't defend it.....then Why................?
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Jedi-Queen posted:
"If you're going to treat someone like they are a problem, then that is exactly what they will become"
Poor Ani, so mistreated. I guess he had no brain of his own
to speak of b/c everyone else is to blame for his decisions
and ultimate fall. The need to explain away his own actions
by blaming everyone and everything else around him is
amazing. I don't think anyone felt the need to do that for
the OT Vader. Prob b/c Vader wasn't seen as a young cook maverick
with curly hair and dreamy eyes? lol
So by that logic, the parents are not responsible for the way their child behaves nor do they have anything to do with their child running around schools shooting people.... That's BS and you know it. The Jedi did a piss-poor job of raising Anakin and they foolishly led him into the arms of Palpatine where he will be easily manipulated into thinking that the Jedi are evil.
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