| Author |
Topic:
Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
|
Date Posted:
1/31/06 6:28pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
ZamWesell44 posted:
Dooku did not have to lose at all, he was told if he could beat him they would know Anakin is not strong enough. Kenobi Is as wise as Yoda and as strong as Mace. The advice Yoda gave to Anakinin ROTS was not excatly wise. And Sidious never intended to kill Mace, if he had Anakin would not have turned then.
No, that is not true at all. He beat Anakin very easily in AotC. If Anakin lost in RotS, he could get more training. His potential has never been in question, it just has to be cultivated. By you logic, Anakin would have been worthless to the Sith after AotC. I am not trying to say he had the whole duel planned or anything, but he was not trying to kill Anakin. That was never his goal. He was trying to win, but in such a way that Anakin came to no harm. Anakin was trying to win to save his life. He was fighting harder.
What advice is that? Don't go to the dark side?
He had intended to kill Mace. He didnt know Anakin would come at that exact moment. He also couldn't rely entirely on Anakin's rescue. If Anakin hadnt cut Mace's hand off, Sidious would have died. There was no way he could have planned all that out, yet not planned out what happened in the OT.
If what Anakin said is exactly true, (about Obi-Wan being as wise and as powerful as Yoda and Mace) then Obi-Wan beat Anakin therefore Mace could, too. But not everything Anakin says is true, in that case he was merely exaggerating about Obi-Wans skills. What was factual information given in that statement was that Yoda is the wisest and Mace is the most powerful. If Yoda was more powerful, he would have said 'As wise and powerful as Master Yoda'
I agree with what the guy before me posted, about how Obi-Wan won because of experience. That is true. In the long run, maybe Anakin would have won. But they both knew each other to a T, and Obi-Wan had more experience and used the enviroment to his advantage. I do not know how you draw the conclusion that Anakin just let his emotions get in the way and thus lost, unless you are referring to the end where he jumped at Obi-Wan due to arrogance. He did not hold anything back at Obu-Wan. If anyone was holding back, it was Obi-Wan. Watch the movie one more time, when Anakin leapt at Obi-Wan with a lightsaber, he wasn't just kidding. When he was choking the life out of him, he wasnt holding anything back.
-----signature-----
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
1/31/06 7:20pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
I can't see how all the quotes the characters themselves give us should be all true. In AOTC OBW says to Anakin that if he practiced his saber skills more, he could perhaps rival Master Yoda - here it is implied that Yoda is the strongest. Mace is supposedly almost as strong, or as strong as Yoda - not in force powers, but in saber skills. I doubt he is better. Yoda has the world of experience.
As to Anakin beating Mace. I just can't see it. If you take the "wise as Master Yoda and strong as Master Windu" thing, then it is contradictory. Anakin says he has moved past OBW - even in AOTC. Something he clearly has not. Anakin sometimes doesn't know his elbow from his ass to put it bluntly 
Yoda is the top Jedi. Then comes Mace. After that I would argue OBW, some would say one of that TERRIBLE possee - can't see that myself. Anakin was up there with OBW though...
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
|
Date Posted:
1/31/06 7:28pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
Master_EdgeCrusher posted:
where do I find what you have? asin your making of book etc....
"On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he (Nick Gillard) said, "Sidious is a level nine [out of ten]. On this film, Obi is eight - he's moved up - Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up there with Sidious"
Page 133, The Making of ROTS.
You can buy the Making of ROTS at your local bookstore or over the internet. Very very cool book.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
farrellg
Registered:
Mar '05
|
Date Posted:
1/31/06 7:29pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
Icestar63 posted:
I dissagree, Obi-wan won because he is more experianced.
The duel was already over before the jump. The offical site sayes "He had the high ground, the tactical advantage. He urged Vader not to press on in a fight he could not win" Obi-wan Kenobi data bank
I agree that Obi-Wan was victorious because he was more experienced. That's what Lucas himself said about the character. I was merely pointing out that Anakin's arrogance and lack of experience allowed Obi-Wan to defeat a more powerful opponent. If Anakin had as much control and experience as Obi-Wan did, he would be able to win since Lucas says that Anakin is more powerful.
Rossa83 posted:
After that I would argue OBW, some would say one of that TERRIBLE possee - can't see that myself.
The posse weren't bad at all. The OS and novel confirm that they are three of the greatest swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced. The Emperor is just that much faster.
-----signature-----
Non so d'onde viene quel tenero affetto. http://boards.outerrimsieges.com
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ZamWesell44
Registered:
Sep '03
|
Date Posted:
1/31/06 7:47pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
Sidious could not have planned Anakin cutting off Mace's arm? Yeah ok, he just became emperor and worked with the jedi for years without them knowing he was a sith but he could not plan that.  He was faking when he was on the ground clearly, saying he was too weak, after seeing him throw pods as Yoda while floating on another, and shooting lighting so intensly it took his saber out im thinking he could have taken Mace out without the saber. And Dooku was trying to kill Anakin, he figured out in the middle of the fight what was going on and tried to beat him but could not,b/c he kept getting stronger. And kenobi beat Anakin not because he was stronger, he trained him.
Anakin does not know his a$$ from his elbow? whatever that means, i guess its lucky for Kenobi that pathetic Anakin was there to save his life 10 times, and carry him over his shoulder after he got smoked by Dooku.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Master_EdgeCrusher
Registered:
Dec '05
|
Date Posted:
1/31/06 9:03pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
yoshifett posted:
Master_EdgeCrusher posted:
where do I find what you have? asin your making of book etc....
"On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he (Nick Gillard) said, "Sidious is a level nine [out of ten]. On this film, Obi is eight - he's moved up - Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up there with Sidious"
Page 133, The Making of ROTS.
You can buy the Making of ROTS at your local bookstore or over the internet. Very very cool book.
thank you and I will be looking for those!!!!
-----signature-----
ripped away from the dreadfull dark side, with the darklust still in my head,
www.myspace.com/ifbutforone
"THROUGH THE STORM is being released"
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
1/31/06 10:42pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
Farrelg: If you think the possee was good, then surely you can't believe that Anakin can beat Mace? seeing that Mace bested Sideous!! I must admit though that I think the possee came off as rather pathetic... it was bad choreography really. The emperor was powerful, no doubting that, but that would be just a better reason to move some!!
Zamwessel: I'm not saying that Anakin isn't skillful. I apologize if it seemed that way. Clearly he is. What I meant is that he doesn't always come off knowing exactly what he's saying. He says things without putting much weight behind them. He is arrogant. He believes he is much better than OBW, which it turns out he is not. He admits this in ANH. Anakin was better at fighting Dooku than OBW. However, that does not mean he would be better at fighting General Griveous... every fight is different.
You must however, by now, understand that Sideous was not faking his defeat against Mace. Perhaps he was exaggerating it. However, it might be that he couldn't withstand his own lightning much further, hence he had to let go - not to say that he was drained of power. Lucas himself says that Mace bested him - and he did. I'm a Yoda and OBW fan, not a Mace fan. However, I must admit that Mace did his job in that duel... I don't think he would have done as well in Yoda's fight vs Sideous, since that was mainly a force duel. Both Sideous and Yoda are superior to Mace when it comes to force powers I think, but not to saber-dueling. Mace and Sideous' fight was a saber duel...
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ZamWesell44
Registered:
Sep '03
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 7:33am
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
|
Well i do disagree about the Sidious/Mace fight. Your right about Anakin being arrongant in AOTC, about his power. I also think Anakin would have no problem at all fighting GG, or anybody besides Kenobi, since Kenobi trained him and knows everything about him, He beat Dooku not b/c of his unique fighting style, but he is more powerful. And i do not think there is any way Mace could withstand Anakin in a saber duel, Mace is no stronger than Dooku, i know you will say Mace is a 9 and Dooku is an 8, but Dooku is a 9 if Kenobi is an 8. I don't think mace could beat Dooku, he didn't in the EU, and i know that does not mean that much, but then Dooku was a jedi, he was much more powerful once he turned to the darkside.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 9:08am
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
There really isn't much proof that turning to the dark side will in fact make you stronger. As I said - Mace, the second strongest Jedi, bested Sideous - the strongest sith. Yoda drawed with Sideous. OBW bested Maul, in the end. Anakin bested Dooku. Dooku doesn't have to be a level 9 to beat OBW. OBW clearly had a lower level than Maul in TPM, yet he won. Actually, Dooku didn't seem to penetrate OBW's defenses in ROTS with a saber - therefore he used the force. There he had an edge.
I agree there are no explicit evidences suggesting Mace is more powerful than Dooku or Anakin, other than the fact that the OS implicitly says so. The best evidence, however, must be that he outdueled Sideous.
Do you really don't believe Yoda could've bested Anakin for instance??? you say that no one except OBW could beat Anakin...
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 9:24am
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
Rossa- Exactly. In my earlier post, I meant not that Anakin;s comparisons were correct, but that in order for him to have used the comparisons meant there must have been some truth behind them. (about yoda and mace, not obi-wan). We are pretty much on the same page.
ZamWessel- Dont believe everything you read. The RotS book was a joke. You havent answered my question. If Palpatine could plan every detail of everything, how come he didnt forsee his end in RotJ?
I am not saying Dookue let Anakin veat him, that is just ridiculous, but what I am saying is that he was trying to win without killing Anakin while Anakin was fighting for his own life, Obi-Wans, and Palpatines. Plus he had no idea about any ulterior motive, he saw the ifght as a fight, while Dooku saw it as a part of Sidiou's plan.
(I am an Obi, Qui, and Dooku fan with a little bit of Mace thrown in for good measure)
-----signature-----
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
darthvaderv
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 9:43am
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
Could Anakin have beaten Mace?
No. Not at that point in time. I know Anakin beat Dooku but I think Mace is a different matter.
-----signature-----
You are beaten, it is useless to resist!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 12:18pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
 good to see someone back on the topic.
-----signature-----
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ZamWesell44
Registered:
Sep '03
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 1:02pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
|
How is Mace a different matter than Dooku who beat Kenobi twice, which is not easy, and he beat him in ROTS like he was a clonetrooper.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
DarthJuggalo
Registered:
Apr '05
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 1:27pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
Could Anakin have beaten Mace?
Of course he could have.
Even "IF" Mace is more powerful than Anakin, that doesn't mean he would win in a fight.
Anakin was more powerful than Obi Wan but Obi Wan beat him.
Just because someone "may" be more powerful doesn't guarantee victory for that person; especially in Star Wars. I figured you people would know that by now. 
-----signature-----
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Perhaps you feel you are being treated unfairly?
I'm altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further.
You may dispense with the banning moderators. I'm here to put this thread back on schedule.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ZamWesell44
Registered:
Sep '03
|
Date Posted:
2/1/06 1:28pm
Subject:
RE: Could Anakin have beaten Mace
|
|
and he was not more powerful.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
