| Author |
Topic:
Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
DarthSapient
Registered:
Jun '01
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 8:49am
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
|
I agree about the fighting styles not being a part of the films. Strictly EU. But there's no way whatsoever that Dooku is stronger than Sidious. Only one is stronger and it's the Chosen One.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
darthvaderv
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 9:16am
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
Dooku as strong as Sidious= NO!
However.........Battles are not always won on strength. And the level 8, level 9 business is like saying on paper Mike Tyson will kick Buster Douglas's Butt.
Anyone can get lucky or gain an advantage. So although he is not as strong, it is possible, however small, that Dooku could get the better of sidious. Although my money is still on sids.
-----signature-----
You are beaten, it is useless to resist!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
DarthSapient
Registered:
Jun '01
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 9:37am
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
Dooku lost his battle with Anakin, hands down. 
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
PrinceEspaaValorum
Registered:
Jan '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 11:40am
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
farrellg posted:
Dooku could probably outfight Palpatine with a sword, but not in a battle decided by knowledge of the Force.
What makes you think Dooku is a better swordsman than Palpatine? Is it based on how fast he looks onscreen? Gillard referred to the Emperor, Yoda, Mace, and Anakin as level 9 swordsmen. I think this means Dooku is a level 8 and inferior to the Emperor, since Gillard didn't list the Count as a level 9.
Bc he was not all that winded fighting level 8 Kenobi and level 9 Skywalker. Yes, Anakin overpowered him and then outwitted him, but that doesn't make him a better swordsman. Dooku was also under the impression that this would not be a fight to the death--except for Kenobi.
NG does not mention that Dooku is level anything--probably bc he is not all as important for ROTS as he was for AOTC, where there was a lot of hype of Lee being one of the best cinematic swordsmen in history, of his European fencing style being incorporated into the SW saga style of lightsaber fighting.
-----signature-----
"Still, Star Wars will do very nicely for those lucky enough to be children or unlucky enough never to have grown up."
-- John Simon, New York, (June 20, 1977), collected in the book, Reverse Angle (1982)
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
PrinceEspaaValorum
Registered:
Jan '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 11:51am
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
DarthSapient posted:
I agree about the fighting styles not being a part of the films. Strictly EU. But there's no way whatsoever that Dooku is stronger than Sidious. Only one is stronger and it's the Chosen One.
Agree, when it comes to Force-power and dark side mastery. And when it comes to psychological and political manipulation, which need not use the Force. And there are other Force abilities--reading another's mind/intent, blocking laser blasts with the hands, force lightning, reading the future, making sense of events, etc, etc, which I have seen Palps to be superior than any one other Sith and and perhaps than any other Jedi (more so than less so, he was caught unawares by Luke's refusal and Vader's betrayal in ROTJ). Anakin may be an exception, but so may be netherworldly Qui-Gon, from a certain POV.
But at lightsaber fencing, but one Jedi/Sith skill, albeit a very important one, I still believe Dooku to amongst the elite, if not the best. So what, it didn't keep him alive bc he could not sense his Master's betrayal or Anakin's destiny. Anakin may have been stronger than Dooku at that point, but Dooku's experience should have helped him as Kenobi's experience helped him. If anything, Dooku's pride did him in. And then he did lose, hands down to Anakin. Nice pun, btw.
-----signature-----
"Still, Star Wars will do very nicely for those lucky enough to be children or unlucky enough never to have grown up."
-- John Simon, New York, (June 20, 1977), collected in the book, Reverse Angle (1982)
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 12:16pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
|
The Sith only use their lightsabers to humiliate the Jedi.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
o[[]|[ooooooooooo]|[0]|[|]|[
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 12:26pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
SithStarSlayer posted:
The Sith only use their lightsabers to humiliate the Jedi.
You're kidding, right? So Maul humiliated the Jedi? Dooku humiliated the Jedi? SIdeus humiliated the Jedi when he was on the floor, nearly begging for his life?
Yeah right!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
WEEBACCA
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
If Mace Windu actually managed to beat Sidious in Lightsaber combat then there's no question: Dooku would destroy Sidious.
Just look at the way Dooku toys with Obi-Wan in AOTC, how he disposes of Anakin and how he manages to fight both Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS (disposing of Obi-Wan easily).
Then take a look at the way he handles a lightsaber compared to Mace Windu. If Mace really managed to beat Sidious then Dooku would have taken him easily!
-----signature-----
There is no emotion; there is peace
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge
There is no passion; there is serenity
There is no death; there is the Force
--Member of the Official Darth Vader Fan Club--
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 12:50pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
Rossa83 posted:
You're kidding, right?
 ...
Rossa83 posted:
So Maul humiliated the Jedi?
lets ask qui gon and the same obi wan who was disarmed by maul...
Rossa83 posted:
Dooku humiliated the Jedi?
in AOTC yep,he did,same for vs kenobi in ROTS.
Rossa83 posted:
SIdeus humiliated the Jedi
at least the posse ,yes he did,he won 4 and lost one.
Rossa83 posted:
when he was on the floor, nearly begging for his life?
thats why i say he lost one  . the begging was fake anyway
WEEBACCA posted:
If Mace Windu actually managed to beat Sidious in Lightsaber combat then there's no question: Dooku would destroy Sidious.
mace is a superior fighter to dooku.sidious is dooku's master for a reason ,and the "if actually" is not neccesary because mace won fair and square according to GL and the DVD.
WEEBACCA posted:
Just look at the way Dooku toys with Obi-Wan in AOTC, how he disposes of Anakin and how he manages to fight both Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS (disposing of Obi-Wan easily)
yep i saw it.obi wan and anakin were both amateurs by AOTC,and in ROTS as soon as dooku fights 1 on 1 vs the stronger of the 2 he gets owned
WEEBACCA posted:
Then take a look at the way he handles a lightsaber compared to Mace Windu. If Mace really managed to beat Sidious then Dooku would have taken him easily!
thats called choreography,the used a stuntman for lee but they didnt with samuel jackson.every source except for the ridiculous ones(EU) calls mace a superior fighter to dooku.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 1:41pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
Sithrules: I know that Dooku bested OBW and Anakin quite easily in AOTC, but you have to take into accord who they are fighting... now, he didn't make a laughing matter out of Yoda, did he? he didn't make a laughing matter of Anakin in ROTS? (bad joke anyways  )
Sideous killed those by-standers who looked like they had a just gotten out of bed, wondering, "hmmm... what the heck is happening, why am I wearing my saber - ah, probably a nightmare... oh now, Jedi's don't have nightmares!" and we know how that went...
The sith, fighting Jedi of some caliber have to struggle as much as the Jedi they are fighting... if not, how the hell would you explain how the Sith went into hiding for a millennia?
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
if not, how the hell would you explain how the Sith went into hiding for a millennia?
because they were 2 and the jedi were like 10.000. if 10.000 sith could coexist without betraying and killing themselves and they had a fight with the jedi my money would be on the sith all the way
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 1:56pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
sithrules70 posted:
if not, how the hell would you explain how the Sith went into hiding for a millennia?
because they were 2 and the jedi were like 10.000. if 10.000 sith could coexist without betraying and killing themselves and they had a fight with the jedi my money would be on the sith all the way
Well, I'm not saying that 10,000 sith would not best 10,000 Jedi.... it would be one hell of a showdown though...  But if the Sith hadn't used their sabers because they thought themselves so superior, it would be easy picking for the Jedi me thinks...
I'm merely saying they are actually quite close in terms of powers... don't go all farrelg on me now - remember that you once said that Lucas didn't say how much difference there was in terms of power between the light and dark side...
Besides, the Sith seems to focus on being strong, those Jedi who do they same would be likely to be as strong... Qui-Gon never seemed a fighter to me - although he was supposed to be a good duelist
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
sithrules70
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 1:59pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
|
im not going farrellg on you but i do think that the dark side is stronger in combat
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 2:00pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
Rossa83 posted:
SithStarSlayer posted:
The Sith only use their lightsabers to humiliate the Jedi.
You're kidding, right? So Maul humiliated the Jedi? Dooku humiliated the Jedi? SIdeus humiliated the Jedi when he was on the floor, nearly begging for his life?
Yeah right!
No, I'm not kidding. The Sith believe that a lightsaber is a Jedi weapon, Sidious even says as much to Luke in ROTJ. The Sith evolved while the Jedi, in their arrogance, remained... stale.
"You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species. . . finally the galaxy itself."
Sidious could still hear Darth Plagueis lecturing him.
(from Dark Lord, pg. 303)
How did Sidious accomplish each of those tasks? By brandishing his red "Bloodshine" saber and telling the galaxy to bow down to him in acquiescence?
I think not.
The Jedi used lightsabers for "Aggressive Negotiations", ever hear of, or see, the Sith do that?
Think about it, two red lightsabers against the entire galaxy? If the Sith had not moved past the use of lightsabers, then they never would have been able to take over the GFFA.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
o[[]|[ooooooooooo]|[0]|[|]|[
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
WEEBACCA
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
12/5/05 2:01pm
Subject:
RE: Was Dooku as strong as Sidious?
|
sithrules70 posted:
mace is a superior fighter to dooku.sidious is dooku's master for a reason ,and the "if actually" is not neccesary because mace won fair and square according to GL and the DVD.
The fact that Sidious is Dooku's master has nothing to do with lightsaber skills (Anakin being superior to Obi-Wan for instance). I have no doubt that Sidious' force-powers and knowledge of the dark side is far superior to that of Dooku, but it's pretty obvious watching the way they fight in the movies that Dooku is a lot more skilled with a lightsaber.
sithrules70 posted:
yep i saw it.obi wan and anakin were both amateurs by AOTC,and in ROTS as soon as dooku fights 1 on 1 vs the stronger of the 2 he gets owned
Obi-Wan was not an amateur in AOTC! Obi-Wan was a skilled Jedi who also killed Darth Maul as a padawan. Still Dooku played with him.
Anakin was a padawan in AOTC, but I think most people would agree that he was exceptionally good with a lightsaber (probably better than most Jedi Masters). Yet Dooku beat him pretty easily.
Dooku also handles both Anakin and Obi-Wan with ease in ROTS controlling them both with only a single-bladed lightsaber. Remember that it was never Dooku's intention to kill Anakin when they were 1 on 1. He made Anakin turn into his anger so that he could beat him, but if it had been Dooku's intention to kill Anakin he would have done more than just defend himself.
sithrules70 posted:
thats called choreography,the used a stuntman for lee but they didnt with samuel jackson.every source except for the ridiculous ones(EU) calls mace a superior fighter to dooku.
If the fact that the Dooku fights look so more superior than the Mace fight only because of the stuntmen vs. lack of stuntmen then that is called bad moviemaking. When Dooku is portrayed as so superior to Sidious/Mace in the movies then that is the truth. If George Lucas intended otherwise, then he did a poor job. Dooku is the better swordsman, as is shown in the movies!
-----signature-----
There is no emotion; there is peace
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge
There is no passion; there is serenity
There is no death; there is the Force
--Member of the Official Darth Vader Fan Club--
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
