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Topic:
Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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CJedi72
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 5:56am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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Get_in_Gear posted:
You are right about one thing - a faction of the fan base is definitely [i]revolting ...
[/i]
And your point is.................?
I was using it in the context of why Lucas now says that everyone hates him including the critics, and you answered my response with sarcasm and no substance. If you countered my point and told me why you disagree with me and think I'm wrong, I would respect that, but the nice one line answers, BORRRRRRRRRINNNNNNG!
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 6:23am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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CJedi72 posted:
and you answered my response with sarcasm and no substance.
I guess I did.
It was just a joke.
Remember - "ha ha ha", and all that.
CJedi72 posted:
If you countered my point and told me why you disagree with me and think I'm wrong, I would respect that.
Hey, who says I disagree.
Like I said - it was just a little joke.
CJedi72 posted:
but the nice one line answers, BORRRRRRRRRINNNNNNG!
You have my sincerest apologies.
I'll try again...
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Nordom
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 6:54am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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"It wasn't PT fans that started the PT/LOTR debates. No, it was those that didn't care for the PT that used LOTR to say "see, this is how Lucas should have done it." "
Well I came across several SW fans in 2001, long before FOTR had even opened, that were saying how bad the LOTR films were going ot flop, that PJ were a hack and nothing compared to the master Lucas and calling anyone that liked the books or were looking forward to the films a large variety of insults.
But regardless of who started it, I find it silly and not very constructive tearing down one movie or sets of movies just to push up another.
Regards
Nordom
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 8:13am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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CJedi72 posted:
Yes, but Lord of the Rings is a more 'academy' type movie. It is epic, and the academy loves those types of movies, I compare it to Braveheart, just in middle earth.
The Academy is swings and roundabouts.
I wouldn't like to say what is an "Academy"-type movie - I mean could you say what is going to win each category this year?
Sometimes it is easy to predict, sometimes it is not.
The French Connection, Annie Hall, The Appartment, Midnight Cowboy and The Sting are relatively left-field winners in my opinion.
Whereas stuff like Raging Bull, Goodfellas, The Graduate and a whole host of other movies looked like dead-certs but were cruelly overlooked in their respective years for lesser movies.
I don't feel the original Star Wars was overlooked in any way. Annie Hall is an amazing film - it was as innovative in it's own way as Lucas' movie was.
Empire would have been up against Raging Bull, The Elephant Man and Ordinary People even if it had been nominated.
But then, personally, I don't read much into the Oscars - it's nice to see people who deserve them winning, but generally it is a day for industry back-slapping.
It very rarely seizes the zeitgeist.
And the ceremony itself has become witless and tedious.
If you look at the string of best picture winners through the 80s - that was the absolute nadir, barring perhaps Platoon.
Pure Saccharine.
At least the odd American Beauty slips in every now and again these days.
CJedi72 posted:
Even the original SW isn't an 'academy' movie, but it was so good of a movie, they would look foolish not nominate it in '77. But look at other scifi/action classics of that period: The Terminator, Back to the Future, Alien, Aliens, Superman, none of these movies were nominated for best picture.
See, I don't really lump SW in with those other movies.
I wouldn't really compare them with SW.
CJedi72 posted:
Does that mean they hate Camereon, Zemeckis, and Ridley Scott too? Ridley Scott got nominated for Gladiator, cause that was an epic roman tale. Cameron finally got nominated for Titanic, an epic historical movie.
Heh - I thought both films were pretty trite.
I dunno - who is saying that the Academy hates those directors?
Lucas' best shot a bagging best picture was probably American Graffiti, then maybe Star Wars.
I don't think any of his other work has been in with a shout of being nominated for Best Picture...
...but then I would have said the same about LOTR:ROTK.
I can see your Braveheart comparison, but there is another cloying movie.
I just don't like to second guess the Academy, because there were better films than Jackson's that year.
CJedi72 posted:
Raiders of the Lost Ark was nominated for Best Picture in 1981, and had multiple nominations in other categories, but Temple of Doom and Last Crusade got zero, so was Lucas & Spielberg hated after the original Indiana Jones? No, the original is a true classic, and the sequels are just sequels and thats it, and that is why they aren't nominated.
Fair enough.
I do prefer Godfather II to I.
And TESB to ANH.
But, yeah, point taken - it is usually the original which taps into the collective consciousness, regardless of how the sequels stand on their own merit.
CJedi72 posted:
You guys have to get out of SW fan rose colored glasses. Just because we love the movies, doesn't mean they appeal to the masses.
Guess I'll have to read back through this thread to see what you are referring to from hereon in...
But basically, I love the prequels and the originals.
If LOTR can sweep the board, then ROTS certainly deserves a few awards.
And I think Lucas cut himself off from the industry as much as they have cut him off.
But his comments are valid - he's not just talking about awards, he is talking about his entire experience of the system... recognition is not just about statuettes.
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CJedi72
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 8:34am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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Get_in_Gear posted:
CJedi72 posted:
Yes, but Lord of the Rings is a more 'academy' type movie. It is epic, and the academy loves those types of movies, I compare it to Braveheart, just in middle earth.
The Academy is swings and roundabouts.
I wouldn't like to say what is an "Academy"-type movie - I mean could you say what is going to win each category this year?
Sometimes it is easy to predict, sometimes it is not.
The French Connection, Annie Hall, The Appartment, Midnight Cowboy and The Sting are relatively left-field winners in my opinion.
Whereas stuff like Raging Bull, Goodfellas, The Graduate and a whole host of other movies looked like dead-certs but were cruelly overlooked in their respective years for lesser movies.
I don't feel the original Star Wars was overlooked in any way. Annie Hall is an amazing film - it was as innovative in it's own way as Lucas' movie was.
Empire would have been up against Raging Bull, The Elephant Man and Ordinary People even if it had been nominated.
But then, personally, I don't read much into the Oscars - it's nice to see people who deserve them winning, but generally it is a day for industry back-slapping.
It very rarely seizes the zeitgeist.
And the ceremony itself has become witless and tedious.
If you look at the string of best picture winners through the 80s - that was the absolute nadir, barring perhaps Platoon.
Pure Saccharine.
At least the odd American Beauty slips in every now and again these days.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree that much, that most of the time the Oscars are wrong on what is best film. To me the year Saving Private Ryan lost, I kinda put my hands up. Then the last few years to me the winners have been good movies, but no classics: Million Dollar Baby, A Beautiful Mind, Chicago, Gladiator. But compare that to the 90's: Braveheart, Silence of the Lambs, Schindlers List, Unforgiven, even Apollo 13 & Goodfellas are better than any of the 2000's winners, and they both lost!
CJedi72 posted:
Even the original SW isn't an 'academy' movie, but it was so good of a movie, they would look foolish not nominate it in '77. But look at other scifi/action classics of that period: The Terminator, Back to the Future, Alien, Aliens, Superman, none of these movies were nominated for best picture.
See, I don't really lump SW in with those other movies.
I wouldn't really compare them with SW.
CJedi72 posted:
Does that mean they hate Camereon, Zemeckis, and Ridley Scott too? Ridley Scott got nominated for Gladiator, cause that was an epic roman tale. Cameron finally got nominated for Titanic, an epic historical movie.
Heh - I thought both films were pretty trite.
I dunno - who is saying that the Academy hates those directors?
Lucas' best shot a bagging best picture was probably American Graffiti, then maybe Star Wars.
I don't think any of his other work has been in with a shout of being nominated for Best Picture...
...but then I would have said the same about LOTR:ROTK.
I can see your Braveheart comparison, but there is another cloying movie.
I just don't like to second guess the Academy, because there were better films than Jackson's that year.
I just mean that the academy loves Epic movies, and SW are not epic movies. SW are two hour 30's style B movies, and movies like that, except for the original SW, they just aren't going to nominate.
For me I think Lord of the Rings are way overrated for the academy awards, and I think they are better than the Prequels. But they are not the masterpieces that everyone says they are. I enjoyed them, I respect what Peter Jackson did in trying to adapt a classic books like that, but I think they are alittle overrated sometimes cause their too damn long. I just think by the time you get to the 4th or 5th movie of a series, the academy isn't going to recognize it anymore, cause they feel they you are just being successful for the previous movies. Is it fair, not at all, but I think they just feel an original movie should have more weight than an already established sequel.
CJedi72 posted:
You guys have to get out of SW fan rose colored glasses. Just because we love the movies, doesn't mean they appeal to the masses.
Guess I'll have to read back through this thread to see what you are referring to from hereon in...
But basically, I love the prequels and the originals.
If LOTR can sweep the board, then ROTS certainly deserves a few awards.
And I think Lucas cut himself off from the industry as much as they have cut him off.
But his comments are valid - he's not just talking about awards, he is talking about his entire experience of the system... recognition is not just about statuettes.
What I meant by that is not a shot at the SW fans, cause I used to do it in the early 80's, "How come ESB doesn't get 12 nominations, it is such a great movie." We all see SW movies a different way, cause we are a built in audience that love the movies for the story and characters, and are alittle less forgiving if one movie in the series is not as good as the other. I think ROTJ is inferior to ANH & ESB, but I can still watch it a million times. But to an average person who may not love SW like myself, they will think ROTJ is pure crap, I give it leeway cause it has Luke, Leia, and Han.
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logray_is_a_quack
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 6:39pm
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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Um, where did I actually say "The academy hates Lucas?"...Maybe YOU should check your facts CJedi72. And I am well aware of the OT's successes...this was more a riposte to those who are going to feel aggreived when ROTS gets majorly overlooked at the ceremony.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 8:29pm
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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trisha biggar - never even nominated -
the amazing ILM work - passed over for what?
john williams.... geisha is better than RotS???
peter jackson was rewarded for making 3 movies simultaneously over several years. i don't begrudge that but i don't think RotK was the best movie of the year.
george lucas takes 6 films through the incredible journey that is chronologically jumbled yet in retrospect is the perfect order for this saga's story...... over decades. and not worthy of even a whisper of a mention of a golden globe or BAFTA? rotten in denmark, something is.
but here is where i don't believe george....i don't believe that the people's choice is the most important recognition to him. i think he would be incredbily grateful for some sort of recogniton of a job well-done by his peers in the movie industry.
finally.
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battlewars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 2:24am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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if lucas doesnt care about awards then why should we? and what was better than rotk that year?
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TopSpeeD
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 1:43pm
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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ROTK was boring
I hate those LOTR/SW discussions..don't let this thread become one..tough i think i'm a little late on that..
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Jedi_Ford_Prefect
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 5:15pm
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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If you want to do the SW/LOTR comparison, compare Lucas to Tolkien, not to Jackson. Lucas and Tolkien are the creators of their stories. Jackson isn't, and usually does his best work with adaptations.
They're different types of filmmaking.
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"The first Trilogy will not be as much of an action adventure kind of thing. Maybe we'll make it have some humor, but right now it's much more humorless than this one...a little more Machiavellian - it's all plotting - more of a mystery."
Lucas in 1982
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logray_is_a_quack
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 5:25pm
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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Here, here
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logray_is_a_quack
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 5:26pm
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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Here, here TopSpeeD...theres no point in comparing the two franchises.
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battlewars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 3:07am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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i wasnt comparing lotr to star wars, but to what was released as nominees in 2003 for best picture oscar. and i would pick rotk over any of them.
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 3:40am
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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Lost in Translation, 21 Grams, City of God, Mystic River and Whale Rider were ALL better films than ROTK, in my opinion.
In fact, if I'm honest, I enjoyed Big Fish more than ROTK too.
But this is getting way off topic, I only brought up ROTK to make a simple point - From my perspective (it may not be one you share) when ROTK won as many Oscars as it did, and in particular Best Director and Picture, it made me wonder how the hell the Academy works these days.
...Or if it does at all.
And it gave me hope that one day even ROTS may bag a few... because if ROTK can, then ROTS bloody well can do too...
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battlewars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 10:12pm
Subject:
RE: Lucasfilms grand Oscar campaign
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as a sci fi fantasy fan im happy as hell rotk won. like spielberg said at the time, those awards really made up for the fact that star wars and indiana jones lost at the oscars for best picture. that really put into perspective for me
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