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Topic:
Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/1/06 10:49am
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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It was never filmed. Lee discussed removing it with Lucas before filming the scene. In the novelization, Palpatine talks about creating a Sith Order to rule the Empire. But it's only in the film that Dooku apparently doesn't know of the rule of two. Lucas claims that if Anakin wins, he'll join the two of them. But Dooku doesn't know that Sidious has no more use for him and is carrying on the tradition of two Sith at a time.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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brook_33
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
1/1/06 12:13pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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Yes, at the point that Dooku was disarmed he thought he'd be taken prisoner. That's why he looks shocked when Palpatine says "Kill him."
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Infinite Faith - Filming Summer '08
Star Wars: Strikers - In Development
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Hairless_Ewok
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 11:16am
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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brook_33 posted:
Dooku went out with his dignity. He didn't beg or try to get someone else killed in his stead.
Then he is a FOOL...with dignity
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JMN77
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 11:20am
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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oops--------no message
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http://boards.outerrimsieges.com/ Release the Kracken..... GET THE SACRIFICE ON!
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 11:52am
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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Palp_Faction posted:
The reason he didn't rat on Palpy is because Dooku doesn't know that Palpatine is Sidious.
Agreed. Well, half-agreed...
Insofar as the FILMS present Dooku's relationship with Palpatine and Sidious, there is NO DIRECT EVIDENCE that Dooku knew that Palpatine and Sidious were the same person. None. Nothing. Zippo. You never see Dooku conspiring directly with Palpatine, mentioning his name to Sidious (or Sidious mentioning it himself) or anything that explicitly renders it clear that Dooku is fully aware of who he is actually dealing with. That Lucas' original screenplay was hinting this way - especially with the cut line about Palpatine promising Dooku mercy - is neither here nor there: it's what exists in the films that is canonical and nothing else. One can be more literal in a novel, and true to form, Stover's novel condenses the ambiguity of the films to a tangible strand; it's an entertaining and clever strand, but still just a strand - a strand that doesn't categorically exist in the films themselves. In fact, although this is mere speculation on my part (and doesn't negate my last point - which is why I'm speculating at all), I have a feeling that Lucas may have conceded to Lee's suggestion for reasons other than that presented by Lee himself. Lucas knew that exorcising the line would preserve this delicate ambiguity! The look on Dooku's face is suggestive - but not absolute.
Watch Attack of the Clones again. Although Dooku might well be telling different lies to different people (consistent, at the very least, with Yoda's assessment at the close of the film), he does seem genuinely surprised that the Jedi have amassed a great army. Yet this is surely the outcome that Palpatine wanted if Dooku and Sidious were meant to be playing the two sides off one another. Heck, it probably was a bit of deception on Dooku's part: he does, after all, return to Sidious' lair and tell him that, "the war has begun", even labelling it as "good news". But are we any closer to knowing for sure that Dooku knows that Sidious is Palpatine? No. It is highly conceivable that he could know - just as it's highly conceivable that he doesn't and never did. You cannot say with absolute certainty. Of course, not everything can be told literally in a film, and some things are designed to be infered, but you can only infer so much about Dooku and Palpatine's relationship. The game that they play, or get audiences to play, is a bit like the game of Sodoku (pronounced, I believe, "SOH-DOOKU"; yes - very ironic!). In Sodoku, you will find many situations in which you have eliminated nearly all possibilities except for a square being one of two numbers - but you can't simply guess, even with two remaining possibilities, or else you'll commit a logical fallacy and ruin your chances of winning. Same thing here. Just because many of the pieces seem to fit, it doesn't mean that they actually do. There is no concrete proof that Dooku knows. If there was, and that concrete proof was merely fleeting, then it would still be concrete proof - and there would be no ambiguity. But that's simply not the case.
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I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films.
- Ian McDiarmid
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TrueJedi
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 1:36pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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Hairless_Ewok posted:
As soon as Palpatine told Anakin to kill Dooku he shoulda ratted him out instead of sitting there like a sucker waiting to be decapitated. Aint no way i would let no dude set me up to be killed without saying something.
The only thing I can think of is that Palpy froze up Dooku's ability to speak. Remember, Palpy IS the Senate and as such has alot of power.
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You do not truly know someone until you steal their wallet.
I'm the originator of the title, "EP III: Revenge of the Sith", so give me my accolades.
1977: May The Force Be With You
1999: May You Have Enough Midichlorians To Use The Force
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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Anakin certainly told Dooku what was up. 
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Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 9:03pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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Dooku was really bitter towards the Jedi, so he was proud of the fact that he turned to the dark side. He was proud to be a Sith, and to be working with Sidious. So when Sidious suddenly tells Anakin to kill him, he was just left speechless.
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YYZ-2112
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 9:16pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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The technical reason is because it's a plot device. If he had spilled the beans, the surprise that Palpatine was the Sith Lord would have been spoiled. Even though it was no surprise for most of this generation; it may be a big surprise for future audiences decades from now long after the hype and hysteria dies down. I always felt Lucas was making these films for a far off future audience.
In terms of the story, the justification could be that the Sith code revolves around the idea "Always a Warrior" so even though he may have to meet his end, as a Sith he has to accept that as part of Anakin's rite of passage. If Anakin could not take that dark step forward and resisted, then Dooku would remain the Apprentice just as Vader remained the apprentice when Luke would not kill him.
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"You were right about one thing Master. The negotiations WERE short."
"Story is about principles, not rules. Anxious, inexperienced writers obey rules. Rebellious, unschooled writers break rules. Artists master the form." Robert McKee
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 11:27pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku shoulda told Anakin what was up
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Dooku knows that Palpatine is Sidious. There's no reason for him not to and it would be the only way he would trust Sidious.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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