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Topic:
How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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JMN77
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/9/06 7:45pm
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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Bend_Ovi_Kenobi posted:
r8hitman posted:
Bend_Ovi_Kenobi posted:
[quote=r8hitman]I didnt see a lot of power.
He has been using the darkside longer than anybody else that we see onscreen, so yeah, he will be pretty powerful.
But I think if Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus, or any other sith, had that kind of lengthy reign as "sith master" they would have been equally as powerful as Sidious.
He didnt show me anything special in ROTS.
(especially if the darkside is "supposed to be" more powerful  )
Kicking the **** out of Yoda is 'nothing special'?!
Is THAT what you saw???? 
I'm sorry fella, but I didnt see Sidious "kicking the ****" out of anybody. 
Apologize all you want, Yoda got spanked by Sids, it's pretty obvious. All the posturing in the world on your part cannot change this fact. Sids was laughing at Yoda the entire time, while Yoda's face turned into a visage of horror when he realized that Sidious was so uber-powerful with the kyber crystal that he could not be defeated.
why would you even post that inane garbage? What kind of brainless, simpleton besides yourself could asssert such an abomination?
Well, if you wanna get technical....
Yoda quit before he could get the **** kicked out of him
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/9/06 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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1) Yoda is 900 years old. He doesn't need to go through a 30 minute long grueling battle to realize that he can't defeat an opponent. The Sith had learned from the Sith Wars that rended the galaxy over a millenia ago, and Yoda had only their example to work upon. His overconfidence in believing that evil would always crumble upon itself blinded him to the need of training to combat it in the first place. After the few minutes of the battle and seeing how drained Yoda was from negating the Sith lightning Sidious let off it's not hard to believe he could forsee who would win the day in the long run. Let's just leave it at that before this turns into a big flame brawl.
2) George Lucas stated in the Trilogy DVD bonus material that the Kyber Crystal was meant to show up in the original print of "The Star Wars". Here's the thing people- IT WAS NEVER USED. Palpatine wasn't hiding it under his robes and Vader didn't keep it hidden on his person. It was a concept, much like there were in all of the films, that never saw the light of day outside of a book that has never been admitted to being canon. Now if you want to get into the canon discussion another topic may be suitable, as the moderater proposed. That is no excuse to start making farfetched inferences. Let's be intelligent in our observations.
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r8hitman
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 7:56am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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farrellg posted:
I'm sorry fella, but I didnt see Sidious "kicking the ****" out of anybody.
He certainly kicked the #### out of Luke and Mace's posse.
Lucas says the Darkside is stronger, thats why anakin knows he has to eventually go over to the darkside, to gain this power to save people.
Bus as we know, Yoda tells us the dark side is not stronger. Just easier, more seductive, quicker to join you in a fight.
Sometimes the author knows more about true events than the characters themselves. If Lucas says the dark side is stronger, than Yoda's contradicting view is wrong. I think the best example of the dark side's strength is when the Emperor electrocutes Luke. The Jedi don't have the ability to use force lightning.
No I dont believe that....I think the jedi have the "ability" to use force lightning, they just dont do it. That's an aggressive/torturing type of power...I cant see a jedi using that in battle.
You know the jedi know how to use it. How did Yoda learn how to defend against it if he had never seen it before, and the sith were believed to be extinct, so who did he master his "lightning defense" against?
And as far as the darkside being more powerful, Lucas said the darkside is more powerful but he also said it's not(Yoda in ESB) so who knows what to believe in this case.
(And yes, if Yoda said it in ESB then basically Lucas said it.....Whatever comes out of Yoda's mouth is from Lucas' head.)
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mjerome3
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 8:05am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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Palpatine's hate defintely made him strong in the dark side of the Force. If his hate alone could trigger the aura of evil where the dark side of the Force is concerned then that alone would make him powerful. After all, it's the dark side we're talking about. Palpatine told Anakin that he had to be strong enough with the dark side in order to save Padme so being strong with the dark side would mean giving in to his immediate hatred for the Jedi to assist in triggering the power that he orginally had which would in turn make him far stronger and powerful.
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lighteninggun
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 8:27am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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Yoda was clearly bested by Sidious. Who ran away at the end of the fight? Who said "Failed I have"? Pretty clear to 99% of the viewers who won that fight.
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r8hitman
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 8:33am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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lighteninggun posted:
Yoda was clearly bested by Sidious. Who ran away at the end of the fight? Who said "Failed I have"? Pretty clear to 99% of the viewers who won that fight.
How was Yoda "Bested"????
The last blow that either one of them landed was a lightning reflection that was used to blast Sidious.
Yoda said he failed because he failed to destroy Sidious.
If Sidious had killed Yoda...Yoda fails.
If Yoda defeats Sidious in a lightsaber duel.....Yoda still fails.
If Yoda and Sidious battle to a draw.....Yoda fails.
If Sidious retreats from the fight...Yoda still fails.
Yoda's mission was to KILL SIIDIOUS....anything else is a failure.
That's why he made that comment.....not because Sidious kicked his butt....the comment was made because he didnt accomplish his mission. 
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lighteninggun
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 8:42am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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Yoda failed the battle, but after 20 years he won the war, due to Anakin's turn. The night of the Jedi purge, he was bested by Sidious. Period. He ran away in defeat. His gooal was to destroy Sidious. Did he? His plan was to have Vader destroyed. Did he? Poor little green guy got beat that night.
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r8hitman
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 10:16am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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lighteninggun posted:
Yoda failed the battle, but after 20 years he won the war, due to Anakin's turn. The night of the Jedi purge, he was bested by Sidious. Period. He ran away in defeat. His gooal was to destroy Sidious. Did he? His plan was to have Vader destroyed. Did he? Poor little green guy got beat that night.
If that's what you saw then that's just what you saw...."I" saw Yoda leaving because he had one opportunity to destroy Sidious and he didnt do it.
Going back and having to "climb" all the way back up to catch Sidious would have taken an extremely looooong time, and only a fool would think he had that much time to spare.
If you go to kill the president and make it into his office and something happens (an explosion) and you end up all the way outside on the white house front lawn, do you really think you'll still have time to get back into the white house again and make it back to the presidents office??
You wouldnt go back. But not because the president "whupped your ass" and made you run, but you just dont have that kind of time to spare....if you didnt do it then, then your best option is to retreat until you can infiltrate the office again on another day using a different method.
Sidious did not "beat" Yoda into a retreat...come to think of it "he" was the one running the entire fight, and he only hit Yoda once and that's when they were in the office.
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Mandalorian-Jedi
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 10:20am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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JediMasterGaraceDane posted:
According to a site I can't remember(it was very accurate and wasnt a EU site either), Yoda has less midiclorians then Anakin and Sidious. But with hundreds of years of training, Yoda was able to overcome that midiclorian count and be on par with Sidious.
That is www.supershadow.com
You were deceived by an idiot.
anakin101 posted:
well if you read books it says that palpatine found a highly potent kyber crystal that boosted his power incredibly with the force, that combined with the fact that palpatine had one of the greatest sith masters of all time to teach him the ways of the dark side shows you why he became soo powerful.
Supershadowned.
Palpatine has never got his mitts on the Kaiburr crystal. He sent Vader to get it and Luke managed to escape. At some point, Luke places a shard of the crystal inside his lightsaber. However, the crystal is only powerful near it's home. Which is a temple on a random planet (check out Splinter of the Mind's Eye)
EU = Canon
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 11:34am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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Sidious and Yoda were at a stalemate. Yoda had to run because he couldn't win, but in some sense, it didn't really seem like he could lose either. Again, it came down to "the high ground"
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farrellg
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 11:42am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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No I dont believe that....I think the jedi have the "ability" to use force lightning, they just dont do it. That's an aggressive/torturing type of power...I cant see a jedi using that in battle.
You know the jedi know how to use it. How did Yoda learn how to defend against it if he had never seen it before, and the sith were believed to be extinct, so who did he master his "lightning defense" against?
Using the light side of the Force, it is impossible to generate lightning. As long as you resist the dark side, lightning is a power that you will lack. Its not so much about having the ability to use lightning as it is the knowledge of how to access the power. Only through the dark side can lightning be generated, which is why Lucas calls it "Sith lightning" and only Sith lords use it.
Knowing how to block lightning doesn't mean you can use it. A lightsaber can block blaster shots but cannot generate them.
And as far as the darkside being more powerful, Lucas said the darkside is more powerful but he also said it's not(Yoda in ESB) so who knows what to believe in this case. confused
(And yes, if Yoda said it in ESB then basically Lucas said it.....Whatever comes out of Yoda's mouth is from Lucas' head.)
Yoda's point of view isn't necessarily the same as Lucas'. I'm sure Lucas doesn't share Anakin's point of view about the Jedi being evil. Yoda can be wrong or he can be lying. This is why the author always knows more about true events in the story than the characters themselves.
If Lucas says the dark side is stronger, than its definitely stronger. Lucas created the concept of the Force and he knows everything about his fictional universe. Yoda is either wrong or is lying if his statements contradict Lucas' views. Saying that the dark side isn't stronger clearly goes against Lucas' Commentary for AOTC.
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 11:48am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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Good points all around farrelg. Why would Yoda tell Luke that the darkside was stronger anyway? It wouldn't have been very helpful in convincing Luke to face Vader and the Emperor.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 11:49am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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The Dark Side is stronger in the physical sense. But that is not the Jedi way. The Jedi way is to use the Force for knowledge and defense. To become one with the Force, a Jedi achieves the greatest power of all. Infinite wisdom and the ability to pass on their knowledge to others. What Anakin wants is the power to cheat death which Sidious claims is possible, but all it will cost is your soul.
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farrellg
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 11:58am
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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Good points all around farrelg. Why would Yoda tell Luke that the darkside was stronger anyway? It wouldn't have been very helpful in convincing Luke to face Vader and the Emperor.
Thank you, yoshifett. I agree that telling someone as young and impressionable as Luke that the dark side is stronger could spell disaster. Luke might wonder why he's using the weaker side of the Force, and how he has a chance against people who automatically have a physical advantage over him.
We know that the Jedi are fond of telling lies that protect Luke or truths "from a certain point of view". This wouldn't be the first time Luke has been told something that isn't 100% accurate.
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r8hitman
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 12:35pm
Subject:
RE: How did Palpatine become so powerful?
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farrellg posted:
No I dont believe that....I think the jedi have the "ability" to use force lightning, they just dont do it. That's an aggressive/torturing type of power...I cant see a jedi using that in battle.
You know the jedi know how to use it. How did Yoda learn how to defend against it if he had never seen it before, and the sith were believed to be extinct, so who did he master his "lightning defense" against?
Using the light side of the Force, it is impossible to generate lightning. As long as you resist the dark side, lightning is a power that you will lack. Its not so much about having the ability to use lightning as it is the knowledge of how to access the power. Only through the dark side can lightning be generated, which is why Lucas calls it "Sith lightning" and only Sith lords use it.
How do you know it's "impossible for a jedi to use lightning"?? It doesnt make any sense that a jedi doesnt "know how" to use the lightning, the thing about it is that it requires you to use certain emotions that the jedi dont or are not supposed to use, but that doesnt mean they dont know how.
But like I said, in order for Yoda to know that he can "physically block lightning with his bare hand" then he would have had to have practiced it against someone (and keep in mind the jedi DID NOT know the sith still existed) Remember Obi-Wan blocked Dooku's lightning with his saber, so blocking lightning with your bare hand doesnt seem like something that you just "try out" in the middle of a fight...Yoda had to have seen lightning before, and since the sith were believed to be extinct, even since before Yoda's time......how did he learn it?
Knowing how to block lightning doesn't mean you can use it. A lightsaber can block blaster shots but cannot generate them.
 That's not the same thing and you know it...to PHYSICALLY BLOCK SOMETHING WITH YOUR BARE HANDS would require some kind of practice, you dont "practice" these types of things in the middle of a fight.
And as far as the darkside being more powerful, Lucas said the darkside is more powerful but he also said it's not(Yoda in ESB) so who knows what to believe in this case. confused
(And yes, if Yoda said it in ESB then basically Lucas said it.....Whatever comes out of Yoda's mouth is from Lucas' head.)
Yoda's point of view isn't necessarily the same as Lucas'. I'm sure Lucas doesn't share Anakin's point of view about the Jedi being evil. Yoda can be wrong or he can be lying. This is why the author always knows more about true events in the story than the characters themselves.
If Lucas says the dark side is stronger, than its definitely stronger. Lucas created the concept of the Force and he knows everything about his fictional universe. Yoda is either wrong or is lying if his statements contradict Lucas' views. Saying that the dark side isn't stronger clearly goes against Lucas' Commentary for AOTC.
OK so are you saying that Yoda the little green puppet creates his own dialogue?
Lucas wrote this stuff, and maybe he's changed his stance on certain issues (wouldnt be the first time) or maybe you need to reevaluate what Lucas meant when he said "the darkside is stronger"  ....just because the darkside is stronger in one sense, doesnt mean that it's stronger as a whole.
r8hitman
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