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Topic:
Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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jedi_jacks
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 3:31pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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darth-sinister
As to Dark Lord, that's not entirely true. Because the New Essential Chronology states that it's not clear if Plagueis did create Anakin or if Palpatine did it. All that's clear is that Sidious learned what Plagueis was doing and killed him in his sleep. Then Anakin was born and when Palpatine discovered his origins, he made an effort to get ahold of him.
Wouldn't it be cool if Plagueis *did* create an uber-sith, but it wasn't Anakin. Maybe he got lost in the shuffle and is on his own. That would be cool for a story.
Personally, i hate to think Anakin was created by a sith, although the door is left wide open, i know. If i thought anakin was created to be a sith, that would completely change my sympathy for him.
-----signature-----
We don't choose the things we believe in; they choose us. (Lamar Burgess / Minority Report)
If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards ... Checkmate. <Zapp Brannigan>
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Squishy_Vic
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 3:55pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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Dirty-Darth posted:
YEah, I was never a fan of the idea that Plagueis created Anakin...not too sure why. Just wasn't. I like you're first idea of force creating Anakin to counter imbalance of Sidious.
Me neither, but in the New essential guide to star wars chronology, it states that Plagueis did create Anakin.... which is kinda stupid, but it's been made canon now. Damn. 
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Rogue_Follower
Title: Manager: Literature
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 4:57pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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It doesn't state it as truth. It states that it was a rumor, an in-universe story.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/10/06 11:46pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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jedi_jacks posted:
Wouldn't it be cool if Plagueis *did* create an uber-sith, but it wasn't Anakin. Maybe he got lost in the shuffle and is on his own. That would be cool for a story.
Personally, i hate to think Anakin was created by a sith, although the door is left wide open, i know. If i thought anakin was created to be a sith, that would completely change my sympathy for him.
If you mean that you can't sympathize with him, why? It's not his fault that he was created by a monster. Is it any different if you are the offspring of say, Ted Bundy or Adolf Hitler? Look at Luke. He's the son of a man turned into a monster, but Luke isn't a monster.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Dags
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
1/11/06 6:24pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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Squishy_Vic posted:
Dirty-Darth posted:
YEah, I was never a fan of the idea that Plagueis created Anakin...not too sure why. Just wasn't. I like you're first idea of force creating Anakin to counter imbalance of Sidious.
Me neither, but in the New essential guide to star wars chronology, it states that Plagueis did create Anakin.... which is kinda stupid, but it's been made canon now. Damn.
Who said that the Essential Guide to SW Chronology is canon? If it ain't on a cinema screen, it ain't canon.
Besides, logically it would make sense that Palpatine created Anakin for a three reasons:
1) Palpatine refers to Anakin as "son", that can't be a coincidence
2) SW is all about family. Luke/Leia are related to Vader, therefore to keep the circle going, it makes sense that Vader/Anakin would be related to Palpatine.
3) In the making of ROTS coffee table book, there is clear evidence that in an earlier version of the screenplay, Palpatine admits to creating Anakin and being his father.
In the grand scheme of things, the Anakin/Palpatine relationship just makes sense. The whole premise of the Sith is to rule the galaxy as a family - father and son - and therein lies the answer.
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Dags http://www.dmfilms.net Whoever said "it's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game," probably lost.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 12:11am
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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Dags posted:
Who said that the Essential Guide to SW Chronology is canon? If it ain't on a cinema screen, it ain't canon.
It contains canon facts. All are official.
Dags posted:
Besides, logically it would make sense that Palpatine created Anakin for a three reasons:
1) Palpatine refers to Anakin as "son", that can't be a coincidence
The late Ronald Regean would call US troops, "son" a lot. A lot of men in their 50's and 60's call younger guys "son", even if they're not related to them at all.
Dags posted:
2) SW is all about family. Luke/Leia are related to Vader, therefore to keep the circle going, it makes sense that Vader/Anakin would be related to Palpatine.
It could, but then it doesn't have to be. It could've been Plaugeis. In which case his dad is already dead. Or maybe the Force did create him?
Dags posted:
3) In the making of ROTS coffee table book, there is clear evidence that in an earlier version of the screenplay, Palpatine admits to creating Anakin and being his father.
Which Lucas cut from the film to make it rather vague.
Dags posted:
In the grand scheme of things, the Anakin/Palpatine relationship just makes sense. The whole premise of the Sith is to rule the galaxy as a family - father and son - and therein lies the answer.
The premise is that two Sith work together. Master and Apprentice. Blood relations aren't important.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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jedi_jacks
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 2:48pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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darth-sinister
jedi_jacks posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't it be cool if Plagueis *did* create an uber-sith, but it wasn't Anakin. Maybe he got lost in the shuffle and is on his own. That would be cool for a story.
Personally, i hate to think Anakin was created by a sith, although the door is left wide open, i know. If i thought anakin was created to be a sith, that would completely change my sympathy for him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you mean that you can't sympathize with him, why? It's not his fault that he was created by a monster. Is it any different if you are the offspring of say, Ted Bundy or Adolf Hitler? Look at Luke. He's the son of a man turned into a monster, but Luke isn't a monster.
it's just a gut reaction (just like leia's in RotJ when she finds out who luke's father is - she looks at luke with disgust). i lose my sympathy for anakin if he was created to be an uber-sith. his talent seems tainted, he seems really spoiled to me then. if you have un-natural talent, you should at least be humble about it, have a little shame about it (even if you don't know you're un-natural). it's completely disturbing to think about anakin that way.
-----signature-----
We don't choose the things we believe in; they choose us. (Lamar Burgess / Minority Report)
If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards ... Checkmate. <Zapp Brannigan>
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Rogue_Follower
Title: Manager: Literature
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 4:19pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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Or how about thinking it like this: the Force was using the Sith!
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Winston_Sith
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 10:10pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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Rogue_Follower posted:
Or how about thinking it like this: the Force was using the Sith!
Yeah, exactly.
And if some Sith (I don't know who created him, but I would think it was Palps) didn't create Anakin, then why all the *blatant *Frankensteinian themes (such as "the creature turning on the creator") present in Anakin's story?
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 11:23pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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jedi_jacks posted:
it's just a gut reaction (just like leia's in RotJ when she finds out who luke's father is - she looks at luke with disgust). i lose my sympathy for anakin if he was created to be an uber-sith. his talent seems tainted, he seems really spoiled to me then. if you have un-natural talent, you should at least be humble about it, have a little shame about it (even if you don't know you're un-natural). it's completely disturbing to think about anakin that way.
Anakin was humble. He never knew what greed was as he was raised not to be greedy, by his mom. But what happened is that he was thrust with all kinds of respect and glory, for the heroic actions that he became known for. Palpatine was feeding and stroking his ego. Anakin's connection to the Force is unique, but he is only tainted because he is tainted by Palpatine.
Where you come from isn't as important as where you are going. This is an important truth in life. Not everyone becomes like their parents.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/12/06 11:27pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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I think that Plagueis is just a fanciful Sith construct - the ultimate that all Sith can aspire to, but perversely, a signifier of where all Sith end up (i.e. dead: killed at the hands of their apprentice). Plagueis, or a Sith Lord like him, may once have trained Palpatine - and then Palpatine took his place. Palpatine was then Plagueis. Anakin, lusting for powers of life and death, eventually joined "Plagueis" and became his apprentice. But, once he'd grown weary of Plagueis and had been "taught" everything he knew, he also rose up and killed his master. But there was a crucial difference this time: the new "Plagueis" was a plague no longer, and in killing his former master, he had willfully sacrificed himself to save his son and restore peace and justice to the galaxy.
It might pay to look at Palpatine's tale in the above manner. Think about it. If, as Palpatine arrogantly spins it, "the Jedi and the Sith are similiar in almost every way", might they BOTH have an incredible prophecy born of the Force - a prophecy that both of them embellished to suit their outlooks and philosophies?
For the Jedi, their personal hero was "the Chosen One"; for the Sith, it was "Darth Plagueis" who was literally the master and apprentice rolled into one. As Lucas has said, myths and legends are fashioned by cultures to encapsulate and enshrine their most cherished values, and to provide the means of passing those values on to future generations. From the Jedi point of view, all members should aspire to be "the Chosen One" - to live harmoniously with the Force in a balanced way and to confront anything and everything unbalancing it. From the Sith point of view, all members should aspire to the highest echelons of power; apprentices should try and overthrow masters and masters should try and subdue apprentices. The tale of Darth Plagueis speaks of an eternal power struggle at the heart of the Sith way of life. Palpatine thinks he has mastered the fundamental cycle of a Sith: he perverts the old code by getting Maul and Dooku killed before they can overthrow him. Once he's drawn Anakin in, he feels that Vader is a broken and battered a man - mentally and physically - and much too fragile to pose a serious threat. How wrong Palpatine is. It's rather fitting that Palpatine tells the legend of Plagueis so smugly and eventually suffers the same fate as him; the master Sith that Palpatine thinks he has finally succeeded at being is the same master Sith that gets destroyed by his apprentice. Palpatine didn't break the cycle at all; Anakin did. And that's appropriate - for the cycle of killing is inherent to the Sith, and when Anakin breaks it, he rejects the Dark Side and vanquishes the Sith. Anakin not only fulfils the legend but dissolves it - just as he does for the prophecy of "the Chosen One". The old orders and the old tyrannies have been toppled. The folly of men has been forgiven, the old legends have died with the last of the people needing to learn their lessons and a full and spacious human life can begin anew.
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I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films.
- Ian McDiarmid
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chopman
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 8:24pm
Subject:
RE: Maybe Plageius did create life, just not Anakin?
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Plagious created Sidious who was extremely dark, and so the force created anakin who was extremely light to balance things out.
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