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Topic:
Racism in ROTS
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sushimilk
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 10:49pm
Subject:
Racism in ROTS
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lets have a serious discussion about if racism played a factor in anakins turn or sidious power hunger.
one point i would like to make is of course there are many races in the star wars series.
no mistake about that. but surely there has to exist some sort of supremecy thoughts amongst some of the races, creeds and colors.
I dont want to make this a black or white issue, but let just state that if you look at the obvious, in no way did anakin seem to respect mace. maybe not because he was black, but because perhaps he was different?? why did he feel compelled to talk to yoda about his nightmares instead of mace? yet he felt it better to tell mace about his discovery of palps being a sith and not hologramming a message to yoda instead. whats the issue with that?
mace had his own choice of words. " i dont trust him".
pretty sad when your own master says such words, and you know anakin despises him for it.
dare i say it??
So with that in mind, both sids and anakin seemed to have a more personal look about the whole Mace situation if you look really hard at the expressions. not in the im a sith and you are jedi kind of way. 1 example too would be that all wookies become slaves or something to that affect.from what we have seen, all sith have been human or humanoid, so were they predjudice against non humanoid races and specific colors?
one line i would like to point out and think hard on this one.
sids
"my little ((green)) friend"
that was a slur, and not something sids used to be descriptive...
opinions?
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PowerUnlimitedPower
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 11:03pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I'd like to see things your way, but I'm not sure if I can stick my head that far up my ***.  oh, and Yoda was green.
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sushimilk
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 11:08pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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haha.you must not be offended.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 11:08pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Racism had nothing to do with Anakin's turn to evil. It had to do with his desire to save his wife from death and to be all powerful. Palpatine does not come across as racist in the films, though it's implied by the lack of non-humans in the Empire. The eu is the only place where that topic comes up.
Anakin only wanted Palpatine alive to pump him for information, otherwise he'd let him deal with Mace on his own.
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Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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angelicusdiablos
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 11:27pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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First sexuality now racism; the life a moderater is never an easy one. Very strategic and 'safe' answer as usual darth-sinister. Im curious to see if and subseqeuntly how this thread blossoms as fruitfully as some other particular threads on the board.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 11:34pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Well, as I pointed out, the racism points are somewhat validated. Though Lucas was limited in the amount of aliens he could do, this is why we don't see too many of them in the Imperial scenes. Though I do recall that there was talk in the early writings of ANH, that the story of Star Wars was going to be about humans vs aliens. But that never really materialized in the films. The eu did run with this idea, based on the limits of the day.
It does raise a valid question that if Lucas had CGI in 1976, would he have Imperial aliens and humans together?
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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angelicusdiablos
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 11:41pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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darth-sinister posted:
It does raise a valid question that if Lucas had CGI in 1976, would he have Imperial aliens and humans together?
 Interesting point.
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 12:36am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I think the issue is not so much is ROTS racist, but rather, how does ROTS (and all movies for that matter) reflect the prejudices/biases of the filmmaker and of the society that it springs from.
We're all prejudiced in some fashion. That doesn't mean we're all racist, but we all have biases, and those biases can easily become prejudices.
Some forms of racial prejudice are subtle, implied, others are blatant and obvious.
Hollywood still runs on a racist mentality. At least it's ignorant.
But, back to the main point, is ROTS racist? I don't think it's blatantly so. Biased? Yes. Contains prejudices? Yes. But racist? I would, for the most part, say it's not.
Now, TPM, I think wears stereotypes rather proudly, and has racist elements.
angelicusdiablos posted:
darth-sinister posted:
It does raise a valid question that if Lucas had CGI in 1976, would he have Imperial aliens and humans together?
Interesting point.
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Magical_Maestro
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 12:58am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I think you may be reaching just a tad here sushi. Your thread kinda reminds me of when Martin Lawrence's character in Boomerang is making the pool table/race analogy. "You see how the white ball knocks the **** outta all the colored balls?" "It's racial man, racial." 
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logray_is_a_quack
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 1:57am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Not sure if ROTS is a sweeping indictment of racism, although, as above, on the subject of reminding, this thread (which is still a valid thought nonetheless) makes me think of Hooper from Chasing Amy and his convention speech (how the "holy trilogy" has at its heart a black man, the baddest in the galaxy, only for him to be revealed as a skinny white guy underneath) - funny stuff, but also makes you think...much like you have Sushi 
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Dj_Stevie_C
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 3:53am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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They only killed king kong because he was black, if it had been an albino gorilla they would've let him be. Anakin was so racist he only ever gave respect to Obi wan and his little Green friend Yoda never mace who had openly opposed his apointment to the Jedi order and the council.
Or maybe it was Mace who was racist? Not enough black people on the council so he didn't want another White boy coming and spoiling things for him?
Man George Lucas is messed up.
/sarcasm off
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 5:00am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Star Wars, primarily, is about a relatively personal journey - Anakin Skywalker's fall from grace and his eventual redemption.
Secondary to that is the backdrop to all of this, which is the story of how people hand over their liberty to a dictatorship.
How evil men can come to power.
And how the line between good and evil can be a fine one.
It's about all oppression; all injustice and all inequality.
Everybody comes from some kind of demographic, so what is interesting is that people tend to identify this rather general meditation on oppression, and relate it to their own lives.
"It's about racism - where are the coloured Imperial Troops?"
"It's about male chauvinism - where are the Imperial ladies?"
"It's about ageism - Ani is not taken seriously by the elders."
"Luke's too short to be a stormtrooper? Hey, what's wrong with short guys?"
And so on.
Everybody can put themselves into the "underdog" category, and people often like to do so: it's human nature to wave a banner saying "look at poor little me. I'm being hard done to. I deserve more."
I'm not saying this is never justified, of course - just that I find it interesting that general works of fiction can be pounced upon by so many different demographics - "That film really understood my plight..."
So to me, it's about all oppression.
Mace is not there to represent black people - he's there to represent the Jedi Council.
Leia is there to represent plucky, spirited individuals from all walks of life. Not just ladies. Or royalty
If the Empire discriminates against non-humans, then the Empire discriminates against non-humans.
That's all it is.
To read anymore into it all is to interpret the movie.
Which is fine, but it is just an interpretation.
It's not like it is actually there as part of the GFFA...
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JMN77
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 5:42am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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 Happy Martin Luther King Day everybody!
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 7:01am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I fully agree with Get_in_Gear on this issue.
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jedi_master_ousley
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 7:14am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Any time someone brings up racism as a part of the Star Wars films, I honestly can't help but laugh. Nowhere in the films is race an issue. The closest it comes to being one is if another species is put down, but even that doesn't happen too often - and look at TPM, at the end, the Naboo and the Gungans learned to put aside their differences and work together despite many years of hatred for one another.
why did he feel compelled to talk to yoda about his nightmares instead of mace?
Yoda is renowed for being the wise and insightful Jedi Master that anyone can come to with problems.
yet he felt it better to tell mace about his discovery of palps being a sith and not hologramming a message to yoda instead. whats the issue with that?
Mace was at the Temple, so it was much quicker to tell him what was going on than to tell Yoda. There is also the fact that Mace was on his way to Palpatine's office with the other Jedi to confront him about what was going on - knowing that Palpatine himself was the Sith would definitely be a nice piece of info to have with him.
Anakin wanted to save Padmé and be with those he loved. Anyone who got in his way was his enemy. It had nothing to do with their race, species, or background. I know it's easy for people to blame issues that come up in any part of life on race, but many times that isn't the case at all.
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JMN77
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/16/06 7:25am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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To GiG and master_ousley:
Exactly.
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