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Topic:
Racism in ROTS
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 7:41am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I agree.
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BTW, Hiya LZM!!!
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anakin_luver
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 8:45pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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sushimilk posted:
why did he feel compelled to talk to yoda about his nightmares instead of mace? yet he felt it better to tell mace about his discovery of palps being a sith and not hologramming a message to yoda instead. whats the issue with that?
How is that racism? It's called being smart. Yoda is more understanding than 5 Mace's put together. And the friction between Mace and Anakin has nothing to do with race...We are all aware of what it had to do with so it would be pointless to repeat it. Going to Mace after the discovery of Sidious was also common sense. Mace takes more action than Yoda...Jedi were being killed and Yoda was still talking calmy with Bail and Obi-Wan...I'm not saying Yoda should have been freaking out, but COME ON. It doesn't take 5 minutes to make that sort of decision.
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windu25
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 9:56pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Mace did take up for Anakin throughout AOTC. A lot of people forget that fact and they only remember ROTS "I don't trust him", line. Anakin was on a dark path that only grows darker from AOTC to ROTS and I'm sure Mace was picking up on that by the time of ROTS.
As for racism in Star Wars, I feel there is some in the movies. Also there is racism in the Star War universe, if you all check out Shatterpoint, Mace is almost killed by white settlers while trying to save them - just because of his appearance.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 10:47pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Anakin only had issue with Mace in ROTS, which comes when he drops the bombshell about not being a Master. Actually, he was more upset at the Council in general than just Mace. He really takes issue with him once Palpatine's identity gets out. And Yoda is more experienced than Mace. He also bypasses Obi-wan, his former Master and best friend, for the Grand Master of the Jedi Order.
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Darth_Zoo
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 11:17pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Sorry, but the idea that Anakin was racist against Mace is waaaaaay out in left field.
I do think an argument can be made that Attack of the Clones is racist  . Does anyone remember the reviewer who said the Clones were arabs because lucas was trying to milk the fears of terrorists. Making all storm troopers part of a inter-galactic cell of al-Queda no doubt!
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TheCRZA
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 11:46pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Clones Arab?
Then whomever alleges that is just ignorant.
Temuera Morrison (Jango and thus all clones)
is a Maori from New Zealand.
Also, AOTC was filmed before 9/11, before Al-Queda
was really on the public radar as bad guys.
We supported them as the mujahadeen in years past.
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Tiershon_Fett
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 9:18am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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There's no racism at all. Mace and Anakin are both human.
Besides I am so sick of the race card being brought out. It's so ridiculous.
Most "racism" is merely perceived racism, anyway. That, "Oh sure, you didn't hire me because I'm ______!!!" That's perceived, not actual. But I suppose one can justify their poor lot in life by moaning this phrase whenever things don't end up how they want or expect.
There is such a thing as just not liking someone. I don't like all white people. I don't like all black people either, nor asian, arab, etc., etc... I don't hate or love all of anything. Some people are jerks and I don't like them. No one race or group has any exclusive rights to idiocy and stupidity.
Anakin didn't like Mace because he bent over backwards to make Mace like him and approve of him, but he never did. And he still felt sadness over Mace's death. Mace wouldn't have cared less if Anakin croaked. Doesn't that make Mace a 'racist'? 
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Tiershon_Fett
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 10:06am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Besides, I forgot to add this before the edit timed out.
LEIA said the most racist thing in the saga: Will somebody get this big walking carpet out of my way!
That was it. Leia, an Imperialist human, being contemputous with a Wookie.
I bet Chewie thought, "This brat should be Darth Vader's daughter, with the way she is! Bail Organa is too nice to have a kid like that!"
As far as canotations of Neimoidions go, I knew an Asian girl and she always complained that her mom is the typical spoiled grabby asain. She always wants to be given everything but gives nothing. She gamblee away her kids inheritance and bought herself lavish gifts, but made her kids pay rent when they were only 15, 16. She never gave them a penny of the money their father left them.
So there just might some truth to that portrayal. I have also talked to Chinese girs that try to excuse greedy asian mail order bride. They call them JOB's. Just Off the Boat. They contend that once they are in America for a while, their greed is kind of mellowed when they calm down a bit. They say American born asians aren't that way. So how can it be racist to portray people in a certain way when their own kind admit they are that way?.
Okay? That is the real world.
Neimoidians are green amphibious creatures and they are only looking out for themselves. There's nothing inherently wrong with desiring nice things. It's when we put our own desires above the needs of others that we go astray. I think the theme that runs through all of SW is this distaste for selfishness. Distaste for personal gain at other's expense. It's the very first thing GL tells us. The balance of the force is in jeopardy when peple are self absorbed and greedy. It's all layered togther. It's reflective of Anakin's fall. Anakin's fall is reflective of a glaxy turned apathetic and greedy.
I believe this was more a protest against corporate greed at the expense of the little guy and more of a protest against big, cold business. Which the Empire becomes.
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 3:57pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Lucas blew a canary fit when reporters initially asked him whether the accents given to Jar-Jar Binks and Watto's characters was a stereotype. How do you think he would respond to yet another thread making a race card insinuation? I'd tell you if it weren't so easily spelled out. Seriously people, racism is a train of thought. You want the train of thought to go away so badly? Prove the self-proclaimed 'racists' wrong?
It's a secret.
No, come closer to the screen, I have something to say that you might want to read...
STOP
ACKNOWLEDGING
IT!
Hope that solves the racism issue in society (...as if...). That aside, I can't see how a man who is into peaceful religions and is about as politically correct as it is possible to get (ref. the infamous Mustafar conversation) would intentionally inject biased remarks in his movies. If you acknowledge that, then Samuel L. Jackson is a racist in comparison for participating in a racist trilogy for the purpose of propogating racism. Which makes as much sense as it sounds. Stratch that- which makes as much sense as this thread.
On a parting note, rememeber this: Anakin's 'high ground' incident and Mace Windu's taser experience shows us all something very important.
You don't have to be black or white to be a dumb***.
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 2:32pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama posted:
Lucas blew a canary fit when reporters initially asked him whether the accents given to Jar-Jar Binks and Watto's characters was a stereotype. How do you think he would respond to yet another thread making a race card insinuation? I'd tell you if it weren't so easily spelled out. Seriously people, racism is a train of thought. You want the train of thought to go away so badly? Prove the self-proclaimed 'racists' wrong?
It's a secret.
No, come closer to the screen, I have something to say that you might want to read...
STOP
ACKNOWLEDGING
IT!
Hope that solves the racism issue in society (...as if...). That aside, I can't see how a man who is into peaceful religions and is about as politically correct as it is possible to get (ref. the infamous Mustafar conversation) would intentionally inject biased remarks in his movies. If you acknowledge that, then Samuel L. Jackson is a racist in comparison for participating in a racist trilogy for the purpose of propogating racism. Which makes as much sense as it sounds. Stratch that- which makes as much sense as this thread.
On a parting note, rememeber this: Anakin's 'high ground' incident and Mace Windu's taser experience shows us all something very important.
You don't have to be black or white to be a dumb***.
It's easy for those not affected directly by racism to simply dismiss it all, and say, oh, don't acknowledge it. Simply ignoring it, and not acknowledging doesn't make it go away. but, again, it's easy if you're not affected by racism directly to simply try to wave it away, like one may cigarette smoke.
Now, if you're saying well, people shouldn't turning over every stone trying to look for it in a movie when it's not really there in major doses, that's one thing.
Seems like there's two arguments going on here. one is about racism in the world, and one is about racism in Star Wars movies, and there's also the overlap between the two.
Racism does exist, BUT whether one sees racism/racial prejudice in the movies is dependent upon the individual's world views, experiences, learnings, and perspectives.
I do see racist elements in the Star Wars, and just as much, I see such elements in many movies.
I've seen worse than what's in Star Wars, but, like any movie, the Star Wars movies do reflect the biases, prejudices, views, etc., of the filmmakers.
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 3:45pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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It's easy for those not affected directly by racism to simply dismiss it all, and say, oh, don't acknowledge it. Simply ignoring it, and not acknowledging doesn't make it go away. but, again, it's easy if you're not affected by racism directly to simply try to wave it away, like one may cigarette smoke.
I like the way you automatically stereotype me as a buffoon who doesn't know how it is to be discriminated against. I HAVE been directly affected by racism in many ways. Many people are. But if you let the racist message propogate wantonly you only give into the hate by combating it. You play straight into their hands, and the next generation continues to fight the same race war we started. Whatever happened to loving our neighbors no matter how ignorant they are? Unless it leads to assault, turn the cheek and rise to the occasion by putting yourself above it.
Now, if you're saying well, people shouldn't turning over every stone trying to look for it in a movie when it's not really there in major doses, that's one thing.
That's exactly what I said. Nicely encompassed.
Seems like there's two arguments going on here. one is about racism in the world, and one is about racism in Star Wars movies, and there's also the overlap between the two.
This thread is named "Racism in ROTS". I feel it natural to talk about racist remarks or hints in Revenge of the Sith and that particular film only. Expanding the thread beyond it's purpose eventually leads to it being put in another forum or being shut down entirely.
Racism does exist, BUT whether one sees racism/racial prejudice in the movies is dependent upon the individual's world views, experiences, learnings, and perspectives.
If I can argue over which baseball team is better with a friend, I can definitely find something someone can construe as racism in ROTS. If you want to find a hidden meaning in something you'll probably find it in one form of the other. I use the sports argument as a metaphor for this. Arguing over what team is better is a matter of perception, and I may see a loss on part of my neighbor's team less positively than a win for my team would be interpreted by him. Again, a matter of how the rose-colored glasses that is our free will tends to see things.
If you choose to see
I do see racist elements in the Star Wars, and just as much, I see such elements in many movies.
I've seen worse than what's in Star Wars, but, like any movie, the Star Wars movies do reflect the biases, prejudices, views, etc., of the filmmakers.
Like I said, you can find at least one major flaw or crack in the most beautiful of diamonds. I'm not a Lucas gusher, and I've talked time and time again about the curious choice of dialect for Jar-Jar Binks, Watto and the Neimodians. But he did not do it with intention of making groundbreaking and disguised racial stereotypes about any ethnicity. It was a poor choice. In film the only difference from poor choices in real life is that it has frays on the edges and has to pass the test of time and circumstance. So let's all just enjoy the film and stop, as you phrase so eloquently, 'turning over every stone trying to look for it (racism) in a movie when it's not really there'.
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 4:15pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Yeah, Anakin's a racist because he chose to confide in a little green alien rather than a bad-ass black dude.
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DarthShaun
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 4:38pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Tiershon_Fett posted:
Besides, I forgot to add this before the edit timed out.
LEIA said the most racist thing in the saga: Will somebody get this big walking carpet out of my way!
That was it. Leia, an Imperialist human, being contemputous with a Wookie.
I bet Chewie thought, "This brat should be Darth Vader's daughter, with the way she is! Bail Organa is too nice to have a kid like that!"
As far as canotations of Neimoidions go, I knew an Asian girl and she always complained that her mom is the typical spoiled grabby asain. She always wants to be given everything but gives nothing. She gamblee away her kids inheritance and bought herself lavish gifts, but made her kids pay rent when they were only 15, 16. She never gave them a penny of the money their father left them.
So there just might some truth to that portrayal. I have also talked to Chinese girs that try to excuse greedy asian mail order bride. They call them JOB's. Just Off the Boat. They contend that once they are in America for a while, their greed is kind of mellowed when they calm down a bit. They say American born asians aren't that way. So how can it be racist to portray people in a certain way when their own kind admit they are that way?.
Okay? That is the real world.
Neimoidians are green amphibious creatures and they are only looking out for themselves. There's nothing inherently wrong with desiring nice things. It's when we put our own desires above the needs of others that we go astray. I think the theme that runs through all of SW is this distaste for selfishness. Distaste for personal gain at other's expense. It's the very first thing GL tells us. The balance of the force is in jeopardy when peple are self absorbed and greedy. It's all layered togther. It's reflective of Anakin's fall. Anakin's fall is reflective of a glaxy turned apathetic and greedy.
I believe this was more a protest against corporate greed at the expense of the little guy and more of a protest against big, cold business. Which the Empire becomes.
Yeah Leia did call Chewie a "walking carpet" but notice once they get off the death star and destroy those Ties, she is hugging that "walking carpet.
Personally I believe this most stupid topic I seen on here. I have never really noticed racism on SW till I read this. But I must admit that I have heard people say plenty of things in Star Wars are racist or prejudiced. I'm a black person so I don't see anything wrong with Star Wars. There are certain stereotypes black people do use within their own circles about it. I remember that in ROTJ many of my friends who were African American thought Boba Fett was a black person. That all changed with AOTC. I never thought he was. Boba Fett could have been anything under that mask and personally I really didn't care. But some were shocked like my cousin. He said that all this time he was "mexican". I thought that was soooo wrong. He said he didn't said to be racist. He just bought into that stereotype with black people. That's the big problem. The stereotypes. But some of the stereotypes can be true but not apply to everyone. Take a show like The Boondocks for instance which blantly shows the stereotypes of black people and makes fun of it. This was written by an Afican American to show the stupidity of labeling. The show will actually admit how many African Americans act but just because some do doesn't mean all do. I never associate Star Wars with the real world cause it's a movie. I believe the real world could learn something from it cause Star Wars doesn't use labels. Some people I know think the scene in ROTS with Mace, Anakin, and Palpatine represents how the "white" man always puts the black man down. It's kinda a funny concept but certainly not true. Anakin cuts off Mace's hand to prevent him from killing Palpatine so he could get the power to save Padme. Not because he is a racist. Sidious kills him cause....well...he doesn't like the Jedi and wants them all destroyed. There is no bias there. I notice some tension between Mace and Anakin but I don't think it was more towards Mace. Anakin seems more fustrasted with the Council in general. Mace did believe in Anakin at first. That is known in AOTC. I think it was his relationship with Palatine and his growing darkness that made him distrust him. Mace knew Palatine was becoming a corrupt figure and he also noticed that Anakin was growing an unheathtly relationship with him. That does allow one to become suspsious. If a friend starts to hang with a person you know is not doing right and is slowing moving away from your friendship, you would worry too. All in all, lets put the stereotypes and racism aside and enjoy the Star Wars film for the fun and excitement they provide. 
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 4:45pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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DarthShaun posted:
Personally I believe this most stupid topic I seen on here.
I wouldn't say it's the stupidest. But it's certainly in the top 3.
I'm surprised this thread has been endorsed by the mods as evidenced by their participation in it.
Surely it's a breach of the TOS as it has the potential to incite unpleasantness.
You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic *-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.
Edit: The "f" has to be starred out.
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DT421
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 4:51pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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KILLER-CLONE posted:
DarthShaun posted:
Personally I believe this most stupid topic I seen on here.
I wouldn't say it's the stupidest. But it's certainly in the top 3...
Oh, I don't know. It is right there with the Yoda farting in ROTS thread... for those of us that remember that one. 
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