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Topic:
Racism in ROTS
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 4:54pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Yeah that Top 3 is sure crowded.
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 9:08pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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KILLER-CLONE posted:
DarthShaun posted:
Personally I believe this most stupid topic I seen on here.
I wouldn't say it's the stupidest. But it's certainly in the top 3.
I'm surprised this thread has been endorsed by the mods as evidenced by their participation in it.
Surely it's a breach of the TOS as it has the potential to incite unpleasantness.
You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic f-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.
Why isn't it fine to have a serious conversation about racism? Do I personally believe the idea has merit? Not at all. However, if others can discuss it in a calm and intellectual manner then why stop it? There is nothing in the TOS that disapproves of this, different people find different topics unpleasant, it happens. The Senate functions in exactly that way and doesn't always have to be the only place for mature topics like this. As long as people are civil, we do not try and stifle creative debate. If you don't like it, you don't have to post here.
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CHEAP SLIT!!
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 9:32pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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RebelScum77 posted:
KILLER-CLONE posted:
DarthShaun posted:
Personally I believe this most stupid topic I seen on here.
I wouldn't say it's the stupidest. But it's certainly in the top 3.
I'm surprised this thread has been endorsed by the mods as evidenced by their participation in it.
Surely it's a breach of the TOS as it has the potential to incite unpleasantness.
You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic f-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.
Why isn't it fine to have a serious conversation about racism? Do I personally believe the idea has merit? Not at all. However, if others can discuss it in a calm and intellectual manner then why stop it? There is nothing in the TOS that disapproves of this, different people find different topics unpleasant, it happens. The Senate functions in exactly that way and doesn't always have to be the only place for mature topics like this. As long as people are civil, we do not try and stifle creative debate. If you don't like it, you don't have to post here.
Serious conversation? Would this be the same conversation in which you refer to yourself as a big mofo? And someone else claimed Temuera Morrison was an Arab? Man, if that's not a pig-ignorant racist comment, I dunno what is.
I've seen more serious conversations on Big Brother.
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 10:15pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Aliens and droids are conspicious by their absence in the "Galactic Empire" of the tail-end of Episode III and Episodes IV, V and VI. I think it may have been a purely subconscious aesthetic decision on Lucas' part to begin with, but as time wore on, he consciously saw what he'd done and decided to stick with it. But whatever the case, it's there, and considering the paradigm is never broken over the course of four films made over a period of almost thirty years, it has to have become deliberate at some point. It's another example of Lucas' astuteness and compassionate, liberalistic concern for humanity. How so? Go back to Episode I and compare the state of play there, when the Empire is at its most distant, to Episodes IV and V, when the Empire is at its most powerful and is virtually omnipresent. The theme of symbiosis pervades Episode I at a number of levels: the parts where it is most obvious (in the dialogue at two points: with respect to the "symbiont circle" between the Gungans and the Naboo and the symbiotic relationship between life forms and midi-chlorians) are NOT the only parts it is present. In fact, the ENTIRE SAGA is begun by a fracturing of symbiosis: when trade, by definition, a mutually-beneficial exchange of entities between parties, is halted and an aggressive invasion/blockade is mounted. At the core of Palpatine's actions - his modus operandi - is his ability to divide and conquer: to pit the Trade Federation against the Naboo, to pit Padme against Valorum, to pit Anakin against the Jedi, to insinuate the Jedi are against him and want control of the Republic, and perhaps most insidiously of all, to pit father against son and son against father. Palpatine is a vessel of pure hate and evil: he wants everything divided, subverted and conquered. By contrast, George Lucas is a man at the opposite end of the spectrum: a man who sees that society should help people and that people should help society. And THIS is a man who is racist? I think some people need to hand over their car keys, go back to kindergarten and start all over again.
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I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films.
- Ian McDiarmid
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 11:35pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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KILLER-CLONE posted:
RebelScum77 posted:
KILLER-CLONE posted:
[quote=DarthShaun]Personally I believe this most stupid topic I seen on here.
I wouldn't say it's the stupidest. But it's certainly in the top 3.
I'm surprised this thread has been endorsed by the mods as evidenced by their participation in it.
Surely it's a breach of the TOS as it has the potential to incite unpleasantness.
You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic f-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.
Why isn't it fine to have a serious conversation about racism? Do I personally believe the idea has merit? Not at all. However, if others can discuss it in a calm and intellectual manner then why stop it? There is nothing in the TOS that disapproves of this, different people find different topics unpleasant, it happens. The Senate functions in exactly that way and doesn't always have to be the only place for mature topics like this. As long as people are civil, we do not try and stifle creative debate. If you don't like it, you don't have to post here.
Serious conversation? Would this be the same conversation in which you refer to yourself as a big mofo? And someone else claimed Temuera Morrison was an Arab? Man, if that's not a pig-ignorant racist comment, I dunno what is.
I've seen more serious conversations on Big Brother.[/quote]
Don't like it, post somewhere else. I admit that some people tend to get too personal and they shouldn't do so. But we're not going to close this thread just because a few feathers are ruffled. You have options. Pick one instead of complaining.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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lorn_zahl
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 11:57pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I think it's quite simple. If you think there is racism in Star Wars then you are a racist yourself.
It'd be funny if there wasn't so much racism in society, I wonder when people will just drop it and become color blind?
The_Chibi_Kiriyama posted:
Seriously people, racism is a train of thought. You want the train of thought to go away so badly? Prove the self-proclaimed 'racists' wrong?
It's a secret.
No, come closer to the screen, I have something to say that you might want to read...
STOP
ACKNOWLEDGING
IT!
Hope that solves the racism issue in society (...as if...).
I couldn't have said it better myself, become color blind.
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TheReturnofKardarl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 1:44am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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This is ridiculous. Racism in Star Wars? Thats just weak. Thats like saying Mickey Mouse worships Satan. Don't you have something more productive to do? How did this topic ever get created, and why hasn't it been locked along time ago. THERE IS NO RACISM IN STAR WARS. Deal with it. I can't stand it when someone uses the race card at every oppurtunity, ecspecially when there is no justification for the remark in the first place. And in the end what happens is that something innocent and pure such as Star Wars is subjected to this kind of crap. Get a life. Of all the topics people could be discussing, why  is it this one? There is absolutley no reason for this. It's just awaste of everyone's time when we could be talking about something else. I suggest whoever started this should take there lame crusade to some other forum. Racism does not exist in Star Wars, period. End of discussion. Maybe if we all stop talking about it, this thread will die. No reason to keep beating a dead horse.
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Yes, Kardarl Santesce has returned
In Iraq since Feb, 2005
"I see you have constructed a new reduntant thread, you training is now complete"
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 1:51am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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TheReturnofKardarl posted:
This is ridiculous. Racism in Star Wars? Thats just weak. Thats like saying Mickey Mouse worships Satan. Don't you have something more productive to do? How did this topic ever get created, and why hasn't it been locked along time ago. THERE IS NO RACISM IN STAR WARS. Deal with it. I can't stand it when someone uses the race card at every oppurtunity, ecspecially when there is no justification for the remark in the first place. And in the end what happens is that something innocent and pure such as Star Wars is subjected to this kind of crap. Get a life. Of all the topics people could be discussing, why is it this one? There is absolutley no reason for this. It's just awaste of everyone's time when we could be talking about something else. I suggest whoever started this should take there lame crusade to some other forum. Racism does not exist in Star Wars, period. End of discussion. Maybe if we all stop talking about it, this thread will die. No reason to keep beating a dead horse.
RACISM is a waste of time. And it's just too bad that societies and people around the world choose to be racist, choose to hold onto their ignorance, and remain ignorant.
I sense most, if not all, the people here who are so quick to dismiss the possibility of racism existing in Star Wars are also likely to be dismissing, ignoring and denying racism in reality.
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Yoda and Mace Windu in 2008! A Unifying Force!
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TheReturnofKardarl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 4:29am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Wrong answer. Because I believe absolutley no racism exists in the Star Wars films, does not mean that I automatically deny it's existence elsewhere. Yes, in our ugly reality it goes on. I take no part in it, nor do I approve of it. There are two sides to everything. There are the arogant pig headed people who are racist. They offend people of different racists other than their own. On the other hand, there are also people who use racism as an excuse. I have met and seen people who put no effort into anything, and then blame racism for their own failures. They do this to "get by" By saying that because I quickly brush off the idea of racism existing in Star Wars assumes I brush it off or deny it elsewhere? That, is truly an arrogant statement. You don't know me. Statements such as that don't solve any of these problems, they only lead to aggravation. Never judge a book by it's cover. I'm 30 years old and have been watching Star Wars my entire life, so no, I don't think it ever existed in these films. Perhaps you are trying to "create" this controversy, where most people feel it doesn't exist (at least in these films) Maybe you found these forums and decided it was a place to lay your egg. And what has it caused? More controversy. I would like to think that the majority of Star Wars fans agree. There are thousands of topics open for discussion. Why is this even an issue? No longer will I waste my time on this topic. All it is doing added fuel to your fire. I give you some advice. Do not judge people you do not know. Do not assume I am a racist or that I condone it. What you are doing is planting a seed in hopes that it will grow and spread. All it has done thus far is cause trouble. I've seen redundant threads get locked within 10 minutes. Why? Because they offered nothing to the forums, much like your thread.
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Yes, Kardarl Santesce has returned
In Iraq since Feb, 2005
"I see you have constructed a new reduntant thread, you training is now complete"
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 4:39am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Three points:
1. MystikalMaceWindu was wrong to insinuate that you harbour racist views, or downplay/overlook racial issues, in real life.
2. MystikalMaceWindu did not start this thread.
3. The issue of racism in any work of fiction - while perhaps spurious and contentious in various ways and on various occasions (dependent upon the work in question) - is still, in my opinion, one worthy of consideration and exploration. While I sympathise - and to a certain extent, agree - with your opinion, your black and white dismissal (excuse the pun) of the subject and chiding of people who have chosen to engage it ("Deal with it"; "Get a life"; "this kind of crap") is tactless and unfair. There are ways and means of stating you completely disapprove of a topic without sounding like a contemptible @ss.
-----signature-----
I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films.
- Ian McDiarmid
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Get_in_Gear
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 5:02am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Although I stand by my comments on the first page of this thread, another aspect of all of this fascinates me.
Anakin choosing to seek the counsel of the head Jedi is supposed to be indicative of some racist agenda?
Amazing.
We have a galaxy far, far away, where there is not only a mix of numerous creeds and colours, but also a multitude of fantastic and wonderful non-human forms.
How can race possibly be an issue in this instance?
Yoda is an example of one of those wonderful forms, from an unknown planet.
Mace is a humanoid from Haruun Kal.
If Anakin had a choice between a bright pink Yoda and a green one, and he actually said: "I hate those damn dirty bright pink ones. I don't want to associate myself with them.", then there may be a case for some racist tract being the point of the scene.
But Anakin chooses to seek one species' advice becuase... whew, let's work this one out here... he is the head guy who people routinely go to see with their problems after exhausting all other avenues. Because it is of more narrative importance that Yoda be the one who deals with this.
If anything, Anakin is being speciesist by overlooking his Master, Obi-Wan, in favour of Yoda.
Mace is not really a factor in this.
You just can't win.
Any action Mace is given - he is presumed it has been given such action to tarnish his reputation and bring him down... as part of some racist agenda.
Everytime anyone but Mace does something - it is because Mace has been "overlooked"... as part of some racist agenda.
It's a strange way of looking at things, to be sure...
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TheReturnofKardarl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 5:58am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I agree 100%
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Yes, Kardarl Santesce has returned
In Iraq since Feb, 2005
"I see you have constructed a new reduntant thread, you training is now complete"
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DT421
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 6:13am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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And we all know why Leia had a “bad feeling” about Lando and didn't trust him. Stereotypes and ignorance. But I digress. This is ROTS specific.
I agree with GiG, BTW. 
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rhonderoo 
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Andy_Fett
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 10:06am
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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sushimilk posted:
lets have a serious discussion about if racism played a factor in anakins turn or sidious power hunger.
one point i would like to make is of course there are many races in the star wars series.
no mistake about that. but surely there has to exist some sort of supremecy thoughts amongst some of the races, creeds and colors.
I dont want to make this a black or white issue, but let just state that if you look at the obvious, in no way did anakin seem to respect mace. maybe not because he was black, but because perhaps he was different?? why did he feel compelled to talk to yoda about his nightmares instead of mace? yet he felt it better to tell mace about his discovery of palps being a sith and not hologramming a message to yoda instead. whats the issue with that?
mace had his own choice of words. " i dont trust him".
pretty sad when your own master says such words, and you know anakin despises him for it.
dare i say it??
So with that in mind, both sids and anakin seemed to have a more personal look about the whole Mace situation if you look really hard at the expressions. not in the im a sith and you are jedi kind of way. 1 example too would be that all wookies become slaves or something to that affect.from what we have seen, all sith have been human or humanoid, so were they predjudice against non humanoid races and specific colors?
one line i would like to point out and think hard on this one.
sids
"my little ((green)) friend"
that was a slur, and not something sids used to be descriptive...
opinions?
Silence Knave!
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You're worth more to me dead...
"I do not indulge in any drink or any other drugs... they are an insult to the flesh." - Boba Fett
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Okay, if someone has issues with this thread, they have options. You can either post in a civil manner. You can ignore this thread and post elsewhere. Coming in here to demand that this thread be shut down, is not one of them. Anymore of that and you will be in trouble, as it is considered trolling. If you cannot contribute something to the discussion, then don't give us your opinion that this needs to be shut down. If you have issue with it, talk to the mods in private.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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