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Topic:
Racism in ROTS
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 12:56pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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LOL
"Leave it to GIG to stay away for a few days, then pop back in just to drop a big fat bomb on me..."
You used a sledgehammer to drive home a nail, Get_In_gear.
All with one simple word, speciesist.
Then this thread could have been named "Anti-specism in ROTS".
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 1:12pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Unsubstantiated, baseless accusation.
-----signature-----
"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 2:03pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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TheReturnofKardarl posted:
Wrong answer. Because I believe absolutley no racism exists in the Star Wars films, does not mean that I automatically deny it's existence elsewhere. Yes, in our ugly reality it goes on. I take no part in it, nor do I approve of it. There are two sides to everything. There are the arogant pig headed people who are racist. They offend people of different racists other than their own. On the other hand, there are also people who use racism as an excuse. I have met and seen people who put no effort into anything, and then blame racism for their own failures. They do this to "get by" By saying that because I quickly brush off the idea of racism existing in Star Wars assumes I brush it off or deny it elsewhere? That, is truly an arrogant statement. You don't know me. Statements such as that don't solve any of these problems, they only lead to aggravation. Never judge a book by it's cover. I'm 30 years old and have been watching Star Wars my entire life, so no, I don't think it ever existed in these films. Perhaps you are trying to "create" this controversy, where most people feel it doesn't exist (at least in these films) Maybe you found these forums and decided it was a place to lay your egg. And what has it caused? More controversy. I would like to think that the majority of Star Wars fans agree. There are thousands of topics open for discussion. Why is this even an issue? No longer will I waste my time on this topic. All it is doing added fuel to your fire. I give you some advice. Do not judge people you do not know. Do not assume I am a racist or that I condone it. What you are doing is planting a seed in hopes that it will grow and spread. All it has done thus far is cause trouble. I've seen redundant threads get locked within 10 minutes. Why? Because they offered nothing to the forums, much like your thread.
There's really no such as a wrong answer here. Because we're talking about personal interpretation. The view that there is no racism in Star Wars is your opinion. And that's fine. why speak with such finality? there are many people with different views, on Star Wars, on other topics.
And whether your views on racism in Star Wars do or do not extend to social reality, my point was that there are people whose views on racism, whether in Star Wars or otherwise, do indeed reflect their views on racism in society. I was not intending to single YOU out, but rather make points about many people I have met over the years.
Sure, just because someone doesn't see racism in Star Wars, that doesn't automatically mean they deny it in society. I was trying to say that people who are racist aren't likely to see racism in Star Wars, because they don't even view themselves as being racist.
And, moving on to the next point, I DID NOT start this thread. Funny that you're so quick to accuse me of such. Why did you think that I started it? What made you jump to that conclusion? There's nothing to support your question.
And racism is much the same.... people jump to conclusions, based on misinformation, ignorance, etc. etc.
I stick by my claim. RACISM is a waste of time. Discussing it, is not.
I support what Cryogenic. Simply shooting down other people's opinions/views with a dismissive "Get over it" doesn't push the thread any further. People view things differently. And posts/threads, hopefully push us to try to understand the other person's views, and address the points they make, in a healthy bit of discussion.
-----signature-----
Yoda and Mace Windu in 2008! A Unifying Force!
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 2:48pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Actually, there ARE right and wrong answers here.
If GL has said there's no racism in Star Wars then there is no racism in Star Wars. GL has no history of racist behaviour. It's his story and his film so if he says its not there then its not there.
If people choose to see racist elements within Star Wars then that says more about them than it does the films. Because THEY'RE the ones who compartmentalise the World in terms of race.
So you've got it straight from George's mouth: No Racism.
The End
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Andy_Fett
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 2:53pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Racism. Pft, you knaves.
Mace Windu died. Did not most of the Jedi? Was it racist that only a white Jedi and a little green Jedi survived the purge out of the main characters? I'm sure you were upset when the blue **** Aayla died becuase she wore next to nothing.
Check out Mace, he was of African decent, being "black." When he died, "RACISM!!!" was shouted, but when someone like the dark lord Darth Maul who was Jet Black got murdered clear in to two pieces by a padawan, that was not racism.
Edit: Gotta star that out.
-----signature-----
You're worth more to me dead...
"I do not indulge in any drink or any other drugs... they are an insult to the flesh." - Boba Fett
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 2:58pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic *-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.
If I could applaud you anymore, sir, my hands would go numb. Sense and sensibility is becoming a waning force here.
There is nothing in the TOS that disapproves of this, different people find different topics unpleasant, it happens. The Senate functions in exactly that way and doesn't always have to be the only place for mature topics like this. As long as people are civil, we do not try and stifle creative debate. If you don't like it, you don't have to post here.
But the TOS does tell you to avoid "posts, nicknames or other material deemed offensive, harassing, baiting or otherwise inappropriate". And this is not the Senate. The Senate discusses social topics. If the guy posted this there I'd be fine with it. But as a person who frequents these boards I feel that I have the right to speak up when others trounce this board with obscene insinuations.
How is that racism? It's called being smart. Yoda is more understanding than 5 Mace's put together. And the friction between Mace and Anakin has nothing to do with race...We are all aware of what it had to do with so it would be pointless to repeat it. Going to Mace after the discovery of Sidious was also common sense. Mace takes more action than Yoda...Jedi were being killed and Yoda was still talking calmy with Bail and Obi-Wan...I'm not saying Yoda should have been freaking out, but COME ON. It doesn't take 5 minutes to make that sort of decision.
Even anakin_luver can see things sensibly. When, in the entire saga, does Mace offer Anakin anything but cold and condescending remarks? Whereas Yoda can see how Windu simply wants to help the Republic he almost never shows that side to Anakin. When it came down to it the guy couldn't even stick by his vaunted principles. Racism didn't kill Mace Windu, a lack of friendliness and rash decision did.
Anakin didn't like Mace because he bent over backwards to make Mace like him and approve of him, but he never did. And he still felt sadness over Mace's death. Mace wouldn't have cared less if Anakin croaked. Doesn't that make Mace a 'racist'?
A thorough capsulation of a good argument. The kid goes to him first to help him in his troubles, and when it came down to it Windu referred to Anakin more like a child or a powerful tool than he did a person. It's only natural that Anakin defended the only person he felt could help him to save Padme. There was no remorse because Windu never gave Anakin a reason to shed tears. It's not racism! And to the naysayers: why is it that Mace Windu is the whipping post for all negativity towards this film? Oh yeah, because Jackson is black. Wait a sec! A dose of common sense is coming! Isn't manipulation of a person for their color for the purpose of advancing propoganda yet another form of racism upon itself?!
It'd be funny if there wasn't so much racism in society, I wonder when people will just drop it and become color blind?
Because not forgetting gives some people yet another scapegoat to remind us all about their personal failures, misgivings and whatnot. Color-blindness can never happen if people refuse to stop entertaining the thought of personal preference out of mind and body. And that, unfortunately, is not going to happen soon.
This is ridiculous. Racism in Star Wars? Thats just weak. Thats like saying Mickey Mouse worships Satan. Don't you have something more productive to do? How did this topic ever get created, and why hasn't it been locked along time ago. THERE IS NO RACISM IN STAR WARS. Deal with it. I can't stand it when someone uses the race card at every oppurtunity, ecspecially when there is no justification for the remark in the first place. And in the end what happens is that something innocent and pure such as Star Wars is subjected to this kind of crap. Get a life. Of all the topics people could be discussing, why is it this one? There is absolutley no reason for this. It's just awaste of everyone's time when we could be talking about something else. I suggest whoever started this should take there lame crusade to some other forum. Racism does not exist in Star Wars, period. End of discussion. Maybe if we all stop talking about it, this thread will die. No reason to keep beating a dead horse.
Whoa there, Mickey Mouse? Be careful- some people here might say you're being 'speciesist' about that remark. As for your plea to stop talking on this thread, I feel that a foot needs to be put down somewhere. Moderators should not have to step into every thread offering warnings. The posters here need to send out a clear message to people who make needless threads like this: find a place where other people will entertain the subject and discuss it there. When we turn a blind eye to statements like racism accusations we open the proverbial pantry to all who would post the inane and obscene wantonly.
There's really no such as a wrong answer here. Because we're talking about personal interpretation. The view that there is no racism in Star Wars is your opinion. And that's fine. why speak with such finality? there are many people with different views, on Star Wars, on other topics.
If this were a less serious topic I'd be inclined to show more leeway. But this isn't saying 'there was an inaccuracy in the film' or that 'my favorite character was killed and now I'm sad'. People are saying here that Anakin is a possible speciesist and that Mace Windu is an excellent example of the racism in ROTS. To imply these things about a film made by a director with no prior inclination to make a racist film is the same like implying that Lucas was racist for not having made Jango Feet Caucasian. It's baseless and detrimental to the reputation of everyone who put their hard work into this film.
And whether your views on racism in Star Wars do or do not extend to social reality, my point was that there are people whose views on racism, whether in Star Wars or otherwise, do indeed reflect their views on racism in society. I was not intending to single YOU out, but rather make points about many people I have met over the years.
So you're going to make an example of one person because it is benificial to the whole of society to do so? That only propogates the belief to those who would pander and make way for such a belief and makes no sense.
Sure, just because someone doesn't see racism in Star Wars, that doesn't automatically mean they deny it in society.
I haven't met many people who nitpick about one topic and one topic only. If you find racism in ROTS then you probably have grounds for that. Deep seated grounds, at that, usually imply preconcieved notions of racism in society. The basis has to have a starting ground.
I was trying to say that people who are racist aren't likely to see racism in Star Wars, because they don't even view themselves as being racist.
And, moving on to the next point, I DID NOT start this thread. Funny that you're so quick to accuse me of such.
Funny how you were the first to accuse ME of having no common ground to speak of racism. 'Tis the same torch of accusation a hot brand or am I simply being nihilistic?
Why did you think that I started it? What made you jump to that conclusion? There's nothing to support your question.
And racism is much the same.... people jump to conclusions, based on misinformation, ignorance, etc. etc.
I stick by my claim. RACISM is a waste of time. Discussing it, is not.
Rather that we remain idle to such a foolhardy belief and interpretation instead. Did you know that the Popes were some of the most influencial hands in Crusade-type warlording of Europe in it's religious movement? We all forget how a once-evil post bred so much intolerance. And yet it is so difficult to forget about racism and give it little to no thought. How intriguing.
I support what Cryogenic. Simply shooting down other people's opinions/views with a dismissive "Get over it" doesn't push the thread any further. People view things differently. And posts/threads, hopefully push us to try to understand the other person's views, and address the points they make, in a healthy bit of discussion.
What you view as a healthy discussion I view as an organized and thinly-veiled attempt at Lucas bashing, which should not be held or heard in any form.
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Notice my name? Yeah, I'm obsessed with something other than Star Wars-
BATTLE ROYALE!
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 3:52pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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The_Chibi_Kiriyama posted:
You gotta love it: you call someone a moronic *-wit and they ban you, but it's fine to start a thread on racism and how it manifests.
If I could applaud you anymore, sir, my hands would go numb. Sense and sensibility is becoming a waning force here.
Glad I made sense to at least one person.
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RamRed
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 3:55pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I dont want to make this a black or white issue, but let just state that if you look at the obvious, in no way did anakin seem to respect mace.
Of course Anakin respected Mace Windu. He just loved Padme more and would have sacrificed anyone - including Obi-Wan - for her.
How is that racism? It's called being smart. Yoda is more understanding than 5 Mace's put together.
Where on earth did you get that idea? Yoda struck me as being no more or less understanding than Mace.
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 4:17pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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MystikalMaceWindu posted:
I was trying to say that people who are racist aren't likely to see racism in Star Wars, because they don't even view themselves as being racist.
That has got to be one of the most banal, ridiculous and blatently illogical comments I've ever read.
I don't see racism in Star Wars therefor I'm a racist?
Because I DIDN'T look at Jar Jar and think "Hey, a characature of a West Indian!" I'm a racist?
Because when Mace died I thought "Yeah, Sidious is a bad-ass" and NOT "Yeah, die black dude!" I'm a racist?
Because I look at Imperial Officers as Imperial Officers and NOT as a bunch of British bastards, I'm a racist?
I really think you need to expand on your comments because I for one am looking forward to more of your views.
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JMN77
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 4:48pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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KILLER-CLONE posted:
Actually, there ARE right and wrong answers here.
If GL has said there's no racism in Star Wars then there is no racism in Star Wars. GL has no history of racist behaviour. It's his story and his film so if he says its not there then its not there.
If people choose to see racist elements within Star Wars then that says more about them than it does the films. Because THEY'RE the ones who compartmentalise the World in terms of race.
So you've got it straight from George's mouth: No Racism.
The End
 here, here!
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http://boards.outerrimsieges.com/ Release the Kracken..... GET THE SACRIFICE ON!
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KILLER-CLONE
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 5:13pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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lorn_zahl
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 5:24pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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MystikalMaceWindu posted:
I sense most, if not all, the people here who are so quick to dismiss the possibility of racism existing in Star Wars are also likely to be dismissing, ignoring and denying racism in reality.
Oh wow dude, yeah I guess everyone is racist. Why don't you back up your assertions? Because they are rediculous and it seems that you are the one with RACE on his/her mind.
It's just that. I find it quite ironic that most of the 'crusaders against racism' in this country are really racist themselves.
In effect, many of them are worse than the KKK... at least the clan is honest about being a bunch of racist morons.
KILLER-CLONE posted:
If people choose to see racist elements within Star Wars then that says more about them than it does the films. Because THEY'RE the ones who compartmentalise the World in terms of race.
Absolutely correct and I'm pleased by the fact that most people in this thread agree with this assertion.
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 7:17pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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Let's watch the language in here. And let's quit baiting each other. Discuss this civilly or I'll lock, and deal with those of you can't respectfully discuss this. It's all opinions and perceptions, remember.
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DT421 
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thechozn1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 7:25pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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I just can't go along with the idea that there is racism in ROTS. The main thing people are going to point to is Mace. C'mon... did anyone really expect him to live? Of course not. Not only that but GL let him have his way on several issues.
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For unneutered SW bashing or gushing... http://boards.outerrimsieges.com/ $CZ1$ of the WU-Tang I see what you did there
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 8:18pm
Subject:
RE: Racism in ROTS
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In ROTS, no. How about in "Do the Right Thing?" Were there sci-fi saber battles in that one?
I think that, as Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. People tend to see what they want to see.
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