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Topic:
CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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AnnLouise
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/17/06 1:37pm
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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darth-sinister posted:
Shmi was kidnapped one month prior. Everything in life happens for whatever reason. It's not always tied to one person. Palpatine just used Anakin's nightmares to his advantage.
My bad. It seemed though that she wasn't at the point of dying until almost the same time, at least as presented in AOTC.
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Erby
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
1/17/06 2:02pm
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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andkiich posted:
Also, on an earlier point, Palpatine telling Anakin that Dooku had his mother killed would turn Anakin's anger toward the Sith. As the story plays, Anakin is only angry at the Sith because he was told they are evil. If Palpatine tells Anakin that the Sith killed his mother, that confirms in Anakins mind that the Sith are what the Jedi say.
I agree. Palpatine's whole plan revolved around convincing Anakin that the dark side was better. Claiming that Dooku set up his mother's death would have pushed Anakin farther away from that ideology. However, that dosen't mean that Palpatine didn't somehow manipulate Anakin's dreams to send him images of what was happening, to further push him down that path.
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HookLineAndSinker
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/17/06 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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brook_33 posted:
Tatooine is a neutral planet. I have a hard time seeing Tuskens, wild as they are, being swayed by a Republic or Confederate leader.
A politician, no. A Sith or Jedi, yes. Obi-Wan Kenobi scared the crap out of the Tuskens in ANH just by screaming and walking towards them. They are weak mind enough to be controlled if someone powerful enough wishes to control them.
Also I'm not too sure Anakin would blame Sidious for Shmi's death. I mean if he did, then he'd have to fault Sidious for the multiple attempts to kill Padme. Or the death of Qui-Gon Jinn. But we don't see that grudge in ROTS now do we? Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon Jinn. Viceroy Nute Gunray wanted Padme dead. So why couldn't Darth Tyranus have had Shmi killed? Motive could easily have been Dooku's jealousy of the Chosen One. Jealous that Darth Sidious favored the young Jedi. Well that's how it can be explained to Anakin. Dooku doesn't REALLY have to believe that. He could kill her at the command of Sidious.
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PMT99
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
1/18/06 4:19am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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HookLineAndSinker posted:
brook_33 posted:
Tatooine is a neutral planet. I have a hard time seeing Tuskens, wild as they are, being swayed by a Republic or Confederate leader.
A politician, no. A Sith or Jedi, yes. Obi-Wan Kenobi scared the crap out of the Tuskens in ANH just by screaming and walking towards them. They are weak mind enough to be controlled if someone powerful enough wishes to control them.
Also I'm not too sure Anakin would blame Sidious for Shmi's death. I mean if he did, then he'd have to fault Sidious for the multiple attempts to kill Padme. Or the death of Qui-Gon Jinn. But we don't see that grudge in ROTS now do we? Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon Jinn. Viceroy Nute Gunray wanted Padme dead. So why couldn't Darth Tyranus have had Shmi killed? Motive could easily have been Dooku's jealousy of the Chosen One. Jealous that Darth Sidious favored the young Jedi. Well that's how it can be explained to Anakin. Dooku doesn't REALLY have to believe that. He could kill her at the command of Sidious.
But once Palpatine tells Anakin that he's Darth Sidious, Anakin should've pieced together that it was him who trained both Dooku and Qui-Gon's murderer(Darth Maul) and has engineered multiple attempts to kill Padme but Anakin doesn't care anymore due to the whole "Dark Side can save Padme" trump card that Sidious used on him. Even if Sidious was responsible for Shmi's death, it wouldn't matter to Anakin because that trump card left him with 2 choices: Help Sidious destroy the Jedi or watch Padme die.
Even though Anakin chose choice #1, Padme still dies and now Anakin is trapped in a pressurized oxygen suit and forced to serve PalpSidious for life.
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OX-FAN-WHO
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
1/18/06 8:45am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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FollowerOfSidious posted:
.. in which Palpatine exposed Dooku as paying the Tusken Raiders to kidnap, torture and kill Shmi Skywalker.
Any thoughts?
I doesn't sound right. I can't see the need for Dooku, or any Sith to have to PAY for that. They would impose their will on them. The raiders would be glad to help. Much like a mafia don. They get others to do what they want.
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HookLineAndSinker
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/18/06 9:31am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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If someone can post the exact lines that were to be spoken, that would be great. I think they can be found in the Making of Episode III book.
PMT99 posted:
HookLineAndSinker posted:
brook_33 posted:
Tatooine is a neutral planet. I have a hard time seeing Tuskens, wild as they are, being swayed by a Republic or Confederate leader.
A politician, no. A Sith or Jedi, yes. Obi-Wan Kenobi scared the crap out of the Tuskens in ANH just by screaming and walking towards them. They are weak mind enough to be controlled if someone powerful enough wishes to control them.
Also I'm not too sure Anakin would blame Sidious for Shmi's death. I mean if he did, then he'd have to fault Sidious for the multiple attempts to kill Padme. Or the death of Qui-Gon Jinn. But we don't see that grudge in ROTS now do we? Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon Jinn. Viceroy Nute Gunray wanted Padme dead. So why couldn't Darth Tyranus have had Shmi killed? Motive could easily have been Dooku's jealousy of the Chosen One. Jealous that Darth Sidious favored the young Jedi. Well that's how it can be explained to Anakin. Dooku doesn't REALLY have to believe that. He could kill her at the command of Sidious.
But once Palpatine tells Anakin that he's Darth Sidious, Anakin should've pieced together that it was him who trained both Dooku and Qui-Gon's murderer(Darth Maul) and has engineered multiple attempts to kill Padme but Anakin doesn't care anymore due to the whole "Dark Side can save Padme" trump card that Sidious used on him. Even if Sidious was responsible for Shmi's death, it wouldn't matter to Anakin because that trump card left him with 2 choices: Help Sidious destroy the Jedi or watch Padme die.
Even though Anakin chose choice #1, Padme still dies and now Anakin is trapped in a pressurized oxygen suit and forced to serve PalpSidious for life.
I agree to that too. If Anakin doesn't piece it together and instead blames Tyranus, it works out for Sidious. If he does piece it together, Sidious will still play the Padme card and win. So it still works if Sidious has Shmi killed.
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Amon_Amarth
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Jan '05
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Date Posted:
1/18/06 3:22pm
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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Palpatine had something to do with Shmi's death, as he had something to do with all the events that slowly led Anakin to the Dark Side. However, I don't think Dooku was involved.
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Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/18/06 7:53pm
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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OX-FAN-WHO posted:
FollowerOfSidious posted:
.. in which Palpatine exposed Dooku as paying the Tusken Raiders to kidnap, torture and kill Shmi Skywalker.
Any thoughts?
I doesn't sound right. I can't see the need for Dooku, or any Sith to have to PAY for that. They would impose their will on them. The raiders would be glad to help. Much like a mafia don. They get others to do what they want.
Tuskens: Confederate credits are no good out here! We need something more....solid.
Dooku: Damn. How about we bet on next week's podrace instead?
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DARTHIRONCLAD
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/18/06 11:32pm
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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Maybe Jabba was responsible for Shmi's death???
Star Wars Insider # 84: question from Star Wars fan:
In Return Of The Jedi, some guy shoots Luke in the hand. Who is he?
Answer from Star Wars Insider:
The human sharpshooter with dried bone bound to his helmet is one of Jabba's goons, Taym Dren-garen, and his job was to deal directly with Tusken Raiders. Dren-garen kept the desert nomads armed and well supplied, and fueled their tempers with lies about local settlers. By provoking skirmishes between Tuskens and the settlers, he kept local authorities busy and distracted from Jabba the Hutt's operations. This back story comes from a card in the Jabba's Palace expansion of the Star Wars Customizable Card Game from Decipher, Inc.
And Jabba gets his come upings from Shmi's grandchildren.
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OX-FAN-WHO
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 12:40am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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Alpha-Red posted:
OX-FAN-WHO posted:
I doesn't sound right. I can't see the need for Dooku, or any Sith to have to PAY for that. They would impose their will on them. The raiders would be glad to help. Much like a mafia don. They get others to do what they want.
Tuskens: Confederate credits are no good out here! We need something more....solid.
Dooku: Damn. How about we bet on next week's podrace instead?
The Sith would handle it different from the Jedi. The only betting on the tuskens side would be if they would live if they didn't do as they were told.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 4:49am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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i've always thought palpatine was behind the kidnapping of shmi. "bonus" and "random" just doesn't figure. and it fits so well with the plot....while not exactly the smoking gun, it is the key to triggering rage in anakin..now he knows what rage feels like and more importantly how helpless he was in preventing his mother's death. won't happen again is prime motivation for everything that happens in RotS.
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Darthgordon
Registered:
Oct '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 6:02pm
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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I've also suspected Sideous having something to do w/ it. And according to the novelization of RotS Dooku was in on turning Anakin to the Dark Side. It's just that Palpatine had told him that he would start an academy of The Sith...of course he lied.
The problem is that if Palpatine had said that, then later when Anakin discovers that the chancellor is the Sith Lord, he (Anakin) could have easily put two and two together and concluded that Palpatine was also behind it in some respect. Now since this line does not appear anywhere in the movie it is left up to the imagination of the fans to draw their own conclusion.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 12:01am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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Dooku agreed to turn Anakin, but this came about after the death of Shmi. Before that, Dooku spent much of the Clone Wars trying to get another shot at turning Obi-wan. However it was prior to the second Battle of Courscant and perhaps after the Battle of Boz Pity, that Dooku began to realize that Sidious wanted Anakin alive and not dead, as he told Asajj Ventress and him on Rattaak. Palpatine finally confrimed it when they discussed the second Battle of Courscant in greater detail. And then again before the two Jedi reached Grievous' quarters.
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 5:04am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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Sidious had nothing to do with Shmi's predicament
The "fued" between the Tattooine farmers and Tuskens had been escalating for years, Shmi knew this and was warned by both Cliegg and Owen - but she still went away from the farm to pick mushrooms all by herself, that's what got her kidnapped. No more, no less.
She wasn't the only one the Tuskens ever kidnapped, she was just the only one who's last name happened to be Skywalker.
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Philip023
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 9:47am
Subject:
RE: CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death
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Had it remained it would've looked too much like Anakin was set up.
Um, wasn't Anakin set up? Palpatine sets him up to wipe out the Jedi.
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