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Topic:
Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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stormcloud8
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 4:37pm
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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Before I say anything, let me say that I think Lucas pretty much hit a home run with ROTS and there is no need for anyone else to have directed it.
In terms of Kirshner improving the acting side of things...I think Hayden Christensen is a pretty bad actor who has a truly annoying voice and delivery. This was present in Life as a House, AOTC, and Shattered Glass. That being said, I think he did a great job in ROTS, aside from only one or two lines that didn't work for me. So I think Lucas did about as good of a job making Christensen work in this film as anyone else could have. A good director isn't going to make a bad actor into a good actor. You can only do so much.
As far as Portman, I thought she was pretty bland in TPM and AOTC, but she really was much more interesting in ROTS. So again, Lucas did a great job getting her to do what she needed.
I think Samuel Jackson was again pretty bland, and he could have used some spicing up. And Ewan McGregor was dull on one or two lines, but aside from that he was fantastic. McDiarmid had some campiness to the role, but I think Lucas intended that. These are minor things.
Overall, the acting in the film was fine, there was emotion and drama and a real buzz to the feel of the movie. I really don't know what Kirshner could have brought that Lucas didn't already.
I think George Lucas got exactly the film he was looking for. And almost exactly the film I was looking for. He deserves all the credit in the world for it.
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 8:20pm
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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I don't think anyone but Lucas could really have handled that special effects bonanza properly anyway. Not even Jackson. Definitely not Kirsh, bless his heart...
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COMMANDER76
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 8:54pm
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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Lucas' direction in ROTS is second only to Kirshner's in TESB....
I hope that settles that 
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DUGGY
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 9:45pm
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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really anyone who thinks ROTS is not at least as good as ROTJ , is seriously dilluded. Lucas get's knocked when he is Bad and he still get's knocked when he is really good. and ROTS is easily in the top 3 of all the SW films . if you think that the Ewoks are any different from Jar Jar and that they still make ROTJ better than this movie well then i guess you just don't get it. cause they sink the great ship that is ROTJ.and they prove the OT is not this perfect thing that people like to think. it had a flaw as great as Jar Jar was to many people. this is a SW movie in the finest tradition. the problem is that way too many people think SW is theirs and they are very passionate about what they want. only the reality is it is HIS and he does what he thinks works. and millions agree.
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SkottASkywalker
Registered:
Jan '02
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 4:24am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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only the reality is it is HIS and he does what he thinks works. and millions agree.
I'm one of those "millions". 
STAR WARS EPISODE III: REVENGE OF THE SITH, directed by George Lucas. 
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CJedi72
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 6:01am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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DUGGY posted:
really anyone who thinks ROTS is not at [i]least as good as ROTJ , is seriously dilluded. Lucas get's knocked when he is Bad and he still get's knocked when he is really good. and ROTS is easily in the top 3 of all the SW films . if you think that the Ewoks are any different from Jar Jar and that they still make ROTJ better than this movie well then i guess you just don't get it. cause they sink the great ship that is ROTJ.and they prove the OT is not this perfect thing that people like to think. it had a flaw as great as Jar Jar was to many people. this is a SW movie in the finest tradition. the problem is that way too many people think SW is theirs and they are very passionate about what they want. only the reality is it is HIS and he does what he thinks works. and millions agree.
[/i]
I don't understand your point, Kershner never directed ROTJ. The thread is about Kershner directing ROTS, and would it be better. You can say all you want that ROTJ isn't perfect, I will probably agree with you on most points you made, cause that was Richard Marquands movie to direct.
Alot of OT fans put ANH & ESB as the classics and ROTJ as the weak link, and alot of them, including myself love ESB cause Kershner directed the movie and the characters differently then the other 5 SW movies.
You can blast ROTJ all you want, cause as an OT lover, I have just as many problems as you do, cause the OT trilogy is not perfect, but ANH & ESB are perfect, and Kershner directed one of them.
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 7:42am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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CJedi72 posted:
ANH & ESB are perfect, and Kershner directed one of them.
And Lucas directed one of them.
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bebbie
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 7:55am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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In answer to the question - NO!
Empire has always been my least favourite of the OT so I have absolutely no desire to have Kershner direct ROTS.
George Lucas directed my favourite SW movie - ANH. And he also directed my equal second favourite - ROTS! 
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CJedi72
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 8:36am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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Cryogenic posted:
CJedi72 posted:
ANH & ESB are perfect, and Kershner directed one of them.
And Lucas directed one of them.
I ran out of time when I wanted to edit it, but Lucas did direct my favorite movie of all-time, the original SW. You have no argument here.
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DUGGY
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 8:47am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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CJedi72 posted:
DUGGY posted:
really anyone who thinks ROTS is not at [i]least as good as ROTJ , is seriously dilluded. Lucas get's knocked when he is Bad and he still get's knocked when he is really good. and ROTS is easily in the top 3 of all the SW films . if you think that the Ewoks are any different from Jar Jar and that they still make ROTJ better than this movie well then i guess you just don't get it. cause they sink the great ship that is ROTJ.and they prove the OT is not this perfect thing that people like to think. it had a flaw as great as Jar Jar was to many people. this is a SW movie in the finest tradition. the problem is that way too many people think SW is theirs and they are very passionate about what they want. only the reality is it is HIS and he does what he thinks works. and millions agree.
[/i]
I don't understand your point, Kershner never directed ROTJ. The thread is about Kershner directing ROTS, and would it be better. You can say all you want that ROTJ isn't perfect, I will probably agree with you on most points you made, cause that was Richard Marquands movie to direct.
Alot of OT fans put ANH & ESB as the classics and ROTJ as the weak link, and alot of them, including myself love ESB cause Kershner directed the movie and the characters differently then the other 5 SW movies.
You can blast ROTJ all you want, cause as an OT lover, I have just as many problems as you do, cause the OT trilogy is not perfect, but ANH & ESB are perfect, and Kershner directed one of them.
the point i was making is that people will still blast Lucas even when he does make a great movie. he gets blasted for things like JarJar, but people still forget about the ewoks . which are not much different.  i know the thread is about Kirshner, and i know who directed what. but the thread is also about Lucas. and i was pointing out that GL made a movie that was better than Rotj, IMO. but because it's a prequel movie , it can't be as good as a OT movie . and i used Jar Jar as a example because he is the one of the biggest beefs people have with what GL did uin the PT. and i was trying to remind people that the two trilogies are closer and more similar than some might think,or want to admit. and i don't hate ROTJ. but if Jar Jar sunk TPM, and ruined a lot of the PT, then Ewoks easily did that for a lot of people too.
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CJedi72
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 9:43am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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DUGGY)
the point i was making is that people will [i posted:
still blast Lucas even when he does make a great movie. he gets blasted for things like JarJar, but people still forget about the ewoks . which are not much different. i know the thread is about Kirshner, and i know who directed what. but the thread is also about Lucas. and i was pointing out that GL made a movie that was better than Rotj, IMO. but because it's a prequel movie , it can't be as good as a OT movie . and i used Jar Jar as a example because he is the one of the biggest beefs people have with what GL did uin the PT. and i was trying to remind people that the two trilogies are closer and more similar than some might think,or want to admit. and i don't hate ROTJ. but if Jar Jar sunk TPM, and ruined a lot of the PT, then Ewoks easily did that for a lot of people too.
[/i]
There is a thread for Jar Jar, and though the ewoks are bad, Jar Jar ruins every scene he is in for me, so Jar Jar is far worse than the ewoks, but I admit they are both bad.
I will agree that many wont give Lucas credit for ROTS, and here is why:
ROTJ, which to me is the weakest of the OT, is helped by two classic movies that came before it, so people are not that hard on one movie from a trilogy that the last hour is great, so they will always say 2 1/2 great movies.
ROTS, which to me is the best of the PT, and will agree as good as ROTJ, suffers from two average movies that came before it, so people are more apt to criticize it, or not look at the merits, because even if it is great or good, is one quality movie out of 3 a great trilogy?
My biggest beef with ROTS is the whole turn scene. Not what Anakin was doing it for, but the way the whole scene is done, to me it is just awful. The mace fight is bad cause McDiarmid doesn't look good fighting, even though they use a double sometimes. Palps frying his face is totally stupid cause why wouldn't he stop? And then him yelling "Ultimate power!" or something like that as he is frying Mace.
Then the whole turn scene is just underwhelming, "What have I done" is just so wrong for that whole sequence. If you're gonna make him turn George, for god sakes just make him turn to darkside, he gets redeemed in ROTJ, so we don't need confused Darth Vader now, when he turns he should be evil!
ROTS is really good movie, but the turn scene is worse now, cause in the commentary Lucas say he originally shot it for the scene when Palps tells Anakin he is the sith, but Lucas didn't like it cause he thought Anakin turned too quick. So Lucas then does it in the next scene!
That scene was the key to the movie, and the prequels, and if Lucas couldn't sell me on that scene, what the hell is the point of watching three movies to see him to turn to Darth Vader? Lucas directed it, and I blame him 100% why many fans think the scene is bad.
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DUGGY
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 10:00am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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There is a thread for Jar Jar, and though the ewoks are bad, Jar Jar ruins every scene he is in for me, so Jar Jar is far worse than the ewoks, but I admit they are both bad.
yeah i know. thanks teach.  like i said i was making a point. so stop negating everything i say. yours is just one opinion of many. so i say Ewoks ruin ROTJ for me. my point was still on topic and relevant.
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RolandofGilead
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 10:17am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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CJedi72 posted:
That scene was the key to the movie, and the prequels, and if Lucas couldn't sell me on that scene, what the hell is the point of watching three movies to see him to turn to Darth Vader? Lucas directed it, and I blame him 100% why many fans think the scene is bad.
Well he sold me big time, and he sold many others as well. Most of the complaints about Anakin's turn have nothing to do with when, but why. They didn't want him to turn because he loved Padme too much, they wanted him to be seeking revenge cause the Jedi killed his favorite second cousin (see Last Action Hero). Lucas chose a more sublte and far more rewarding reason and some (including Time Magazine) thought it was great enough to list RotS as better than the Original SW, or at least in the top three.
Some of us are more than satisfied with the result.
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blicknasty
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 11:12am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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ESB is masterful. The Kirshner formula cannot be duplicated, not for the PT not for anything. Which is unfortunate.
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yoshifett
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
1/25/06 11:24am
Subject:
RE: Should Kirshner have directed ROTS
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blicknasty posted:
ESB is masterful. The Kirshner formula cannot be duplicated, not for the PT not for anything. Which is unfortunate.
Kirsh's other directing credits:
Seaquest
Robocop 2
The Return of a Man Called Horse
Now, I love Empire, it's my favorite in the series, but it's unbelievable that people say that Lucas' was "lucky" when he directed episode IV. He also happened to direct to other great movies before that.
With Kirsh, I'm afraid it's a variant of that old saying: "Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut."
His nut was ESB.
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