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Topic:
did Obi-wan move up?
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GrievousKiller
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 6:11pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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RebelScum77 posted:
GrievousKiller posted:
Ps Remember me rebelscum???
How could I forget? 
im glad u remember 
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"Together, we will destroy the Sith!"~ Count Dooku
"I will never join you, Dooku." ~ Obi Wan Kenobi
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 7:17pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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RebelScum77 posted:
I still think people put waaaay too much stock in Nick's levels. He assigned them to help figure out lightsaber choreography, and general character background. It is not the gospel according to Nick. Lucas might not even know what we're talking about. If you want to look at it from a level perspective, then Anakin, Mace, Yoda and Sidious are about the same, with Obi-Wan bringing up the rear. But again, it is extremely difficult to predict the outcome of fights through these arbitrary levels alone. Obi-Wan may very well have improved his skills in the Mustafar fight, but it doesn't really matter if he moved up a "level."
I agree RebelScum77 The lightsaber rankings don't even exist in star wars. those rankings are Nicks own oppinion when he made the fighting. Scince Gillard gave him an 8 people think he is that weak but he is very powerful,Lucas does not intend for Obi-wan to be weak And some people think he can't improve but I think any jedi can improve. Obi-wan just stopped fighing because he had to watch Luke.
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camifladge2
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 8:29pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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The lightsaber ranking do not exist because Nick Gillard just made them to help him make the stunts, and I don't know why Obi-wan got a level 8 anyways. 
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Obi-2_Kenobi
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 9:53pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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probably because he is not an agressive character. he has more restraint and caution, which, though not as powerful, in my opinion actually saves him many times.
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The PT is AT LEAST as good as the OT.
its all about the monsters
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kyoshiro-kenobi
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 10:18pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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Darth_Brad03 posted:
Speaking of environments, if Obi-Wan had fought Sidious, he wouldn't have lasted 1 minute once they moved up into the Senate chamber.
I've gotta say, I'm a huge Obi-Wan fan, but I agree with the above sentiment. I actually think Obi-Wan could've have taken Sidious in a lightsaber duel, by staying on the defensive until he saw an opening and then moving if for the kill. But once the fight moved into the Senate Chambers, I don't think he had any chance against an opponent a hundred of feet above him, chucking senate seats down upon him; I think he would've skeedaddled in hopes of fighting another day.
I don't think I buy into the skill levels, either. Mace's alleged 9 level didn't translate onto the screen, IMO. Maybe it was because they had more screen time, and more intense duels, but it looked like Qui-Gon, Maul, Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, and Obi-Wan all could've kicked his butt (going strictly on what we saw on screen).
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 10:22pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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I agree with Rebelscum here 
People put too much weight to what Gillard says here. Just as they put too much weight to Lucas saying the dark side is stronger. You must always bear in mind the context of which it is uttered. Lucas said his quote so that it could seem he meant it for Anakin's agenda. Gillard said it was to help him with choreography - not that it actually applies for the movies... If the difference is so great between level 8 and 9 as some claim, then OBW simply couldn't have bested Anakin, which we all know he did. Anakin was emotional, but so was OBW. Why not just go by what we see in the films?? 
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Obi-2_Kenobi
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 10:39pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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do you think yoda telling obi-wan that he wasnt strong enough to fight sidious is an undisputable fact, or the responsible thing for yoda to say, seeing as he was technically more powerful and saw anakin as th easier opponent?
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The PT is AT LEAST as good as the OT.
its all about the monsters
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blicknasty
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 10:43pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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I am a level 13 Dungeon Master.
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105 mph
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Obi-2_Kenobi
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 10:44pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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What i've basically been wondering is did lucas mean to suggest that kenobi had no chance against the emperor by yoda's quote, or just that yoda had a more reasonable chance and was being a responsible leader(and needed to find a way for obi and anakin to face off for dramatic reasons)? Basically, according to Lucas, would obi-wan have a hard time fighting sidious or would he be utterly destroyed without question?
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The PT is AT LEAST as good as the OT.
its all about the monsters
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
2/1/06 11:09pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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First, there's no levels 10-12. Just level nine.
Second, Gillard came up with this based on Lucas's assertions about Palpatine, Mace, Yoda and Anakin. That only Mace and Yoda could compete with Palpatine in battle and that Anakin could destroy Sidious. Gillard made it easier by giving us numbers. The Jedi reach level eight, which is pretty much the limit for all of them. They can reach level nine, but it's difficult and takes time. Yoda and Mace pulled it off without turning. Sidious is the Dark Lord of the Sith. Anakin makes the jump to level nine, but he cannot handle the power and it goes to his head. Especially when he turns and fights Obi-wan, who uses his anger and arrogance against him. Against Palpatine, he wouldn't last as long as Palpatine's much more refined in his fighting ability. He's less prone to making mistakes and loosing control of his anger.
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came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
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Something, something, something complete."
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-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
2/2/06 9:28am
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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In a duel against Palpatine, I could see him lasting a while, but once Sidious starts using the Foce against him, he's toast.
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DT421
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
2/2/06 9:42am
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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Thanks to the title of this thread, I now have the Jefferson's theme song running through my head.
Anyway, rankings do not matter.
I can even remember an old story that someone basically said when Ben and Vader fought, Ben was an 8 and Vader was a 6, or something like that. I don't remember who said that, but even then I remember thinking that it doesn't matter.
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rhonderoo 
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-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
2/2/06 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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now that is an interesting matter entirely. I forgot all about the Obi/Vader duel. (in ANH of course) but yeah, the numbers dont really matter that much. what it comes down to is who beat who. but you have to apply it correctly.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
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k_broflovski
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
2/2/06 8:18pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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How powerful Obi-Wan is at the time of ROTS is something that has been discussed extensively in other threads but I’ve noticed that people don’t seem to allow him the ability to become more powerful with age and experience.
In Anakin’s opinion at the time of AOTC, Obi-Wan is “as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu”. However, Yoda tells him in ROTS that he is not powerful enough to face Sid/Palps although Yoda and Mace both would have handed Sid/Palps his head if things had been allowed to continue.
A big deal is also made about the number of times that Anakin saved Obi-Wan’s life but doesn’t that speak loudly also of Anakin’s vanity and Obi-Wan’s humility. I’m sure Obi-Wan saved Anakin’s butt a few times as well as Qui-Gon’s when he was in a similar position as a Padawan but he’s not exactly going to brag about it or compare stats with Anaking because that’s not his style.
So if we look at this in terms of experience: 1) Sid/Palps is in his 60’s and very experienced; 2) Mace Windu is probably about the same age as Sid/Palps (Mace is supposed to be a little older than he looks, right?); and Yoda is over 800. Obi-Wan is maybe in his early 40’s at the time of ROTS. So why do we assume that another 15-20 years wouldn’t give Obi-Wan enough experience to open a can whoop-a** on Sid/Palps assuming he didn’t have to worry about keeping Luke and Leia safe?
I also have to admit that I think there was a breakdown in the logic of dueling hierarchy in the movies. It has been stated elsewhere that hypothetically just because Person 1 can beat Person 2 and Person 2 can beat Person 3 doesn't necessarily mean that Person 1 can beat Person 3. However, in most cases the fighter with the best overall skill set will generally win unless there are large differences in style that give large advantages in different situations (e.g. in martial arts, a jujutsu (grappling) fighter will almost always beat a fighter that depends greatly on kicking if the two fight in a slippery environment that favors a quick transition to ground-fighting. We don’t see these kinds of differences in the dueling between the Jedi and Sith so it becomes more like boxing where Person 1 could reasonably be expected to beat Person 3. So then why is it that Obi-Wan can beat a full-on dark-side Anakin/Vader yet not get very far at all with Count Dooku (whom a mostly light-side Anakin manages to beat in the second duel)? I think GL wussified Obi-Wan in his encounters with Dooku in a manner that was inconsistent with the skill and power that he demonstrated elsewhere.
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
2/2/06 8:30pm
Subject:
RE: did Obi-wan move up?
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Yes, I agree, Obi-wan and any other Jedi can grow more powerful as they get older and they can get better through experience
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Why so serious?
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