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Topic:
[ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Steve1977
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 12:44pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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[quote]I've just thought of something. During the closing, look at the happiness on Owen and Beru's faces when Kenobi passes Luke to them. They've been given the gift of a baby boy and they clearly love him from the start.[/quote]
They do indeed. But what I took out the end of ROTS was that Owen had big plans, he was looking to the horizon to contemplate a better place for his wife. Only for Obi-Wan to turn up with a child, thus all his dreams are shattered. Which explains why he's a grumpy old so and so in ANH.
Revenge though is indeed the pivotal moment in the saga. The second poster in this thread gave a humour line of "it binds the films together". Well, it does! It contains the beating heart of the saga and makes the other movies reasonate far louder than they ever have done.
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marajadebean
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 3:10pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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TheUnknownSyn, it would be interesting to note that during the new shots made for ROTJ with Hayden, George joked about putting in Mace and Qui-Gon. I believe he did that. I think that would be awesome! And actually, George could essentially do it because Leia comes to get Luke to celebrate and then we see Anakin, Yoda and Obi there....oh wait, would people like that? I would be game. If not Mace, at least Qui-Gon.
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stormcloud8
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 3:11pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Nah, I would not like that at all. They're secondary characters. Qui-Gon I could understand, but definitely not Mace. He symbolized everything that was wrong with the old Jedi Order.
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marajadebean
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 3:16pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
- Date Edited:
5/22/05 3:17pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
marajadebean
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Well, again, I think that was a tongue-in-cheek joke by George, Storm. The more I think about it, I would like to see Qui-Gon, because he was the one who knew how to keep himself "immortal" through/with the Force. That's a huge deal and it becomes a huge deal when Obi does this in the OT. I know, deleted scene on DVD. I guess in this case, I would like to see it shown rather than just told. But that's just me.
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"There are three things I've learned never to discuss in life: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."
"I am half sick of shadows"--"The Lady of Shalott"
"Brian, there's a message in my Alpha Bits. It says OOOOO. Peter, those are Cheerios."
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stormcloud8
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 3:21pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Whew...that's a relief. When George says he's going to do some ridiculous, you never can tell. He's certainly redeemed himself in my eyes with this film, but he still has the power (and appetite) to do great wrongs.
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marajadebean
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 3:26pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
- Date Edited:
5/22/05 3:28pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
marajadebean
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Storm, I didn't mean to freak you out there, bud. Sorry about that. Honest, George was kidding. He does know when certain things would really all drive us in a tizzy. Oh gosh, now I see where I got you freaked out! I mean to he say that I believed he did SAY that and I forgot the say. Someone smack me! 
I'm kind of curious how you feel about ROTS now that you have seen the OT. I hope I get to do it this week but I have no idea.
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"There are three things I've learned never to discuss in life: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."
"I am half sick of shadows"--"The Lady of Shalott"
"Brian, there's a message in my Alpha Bits. It says OOOOO. Peter, those are Cheerios."
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 3:39pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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not Mace. He symbolized everything that was wrong with the old Jedi Order.
If Anakin were in Lukes shoes at the end of RotJ (looking on at the spirits), i feel Mace should've stood there...
...but he didn't, it's Luke. So i don't really see the need to have either Mace or Qui-Gon in there
- O_F
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Lexi
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 3:56pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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I don't think Qui-Gon should be a ghost at the end (no matter how much I like him). He doesn't know Luke and Luke doesn't know him. There's no point in having him there.
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stormcloud8
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 4:10pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Now that the saga is complete, I think it is obvious to me why the tension in ROTS is much more like the tension in the OT - the fate of the galaxy is at stake. In TPM and the first 2/3 of AOTC, the stakes just aren't very high. The invasion of Naboo - big deal. The assasination attempts on Padme - big deal. It isn't until the Clone Wars break out that it truly becomes 'Star WARS' again.
That's not to say I don't like TPM and AOTC, just that until the battle on Geonosis, things are very introductory and there is no tension about the fate of the galaxy.
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Soothsayer
Registered:
Sep '99
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 7:08pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Well I agree that adding anyone to the end of Jedi would be a very bad idea.
Let me pose this question. Qui-Jonn learned how to retain himself after death and Yoda and Obi-Wan learn it as well. Are we to assume that Anakin/Vader learns this on his own and does not tell the Emperor? Or is there something I am missing?
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marajadebean
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 7:33pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Sooth, I always kind of assumed that Yoda and Obi helped Anakin retain his Force "immortality." Having Hayden in there now just makes so much more sense.
But I do understand why some of you don't want to see any other Jedis at the end of ROTJ. Probably once I see the deleted scene on the DVD, I will probably be just fine with the way ROTJ is now.
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"There are three things I've learned never to discuss in life: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."
"I am half sick of shadows"--"The Lady of Shalott"
"Brian, there's a message in my Alpha Bits. It says OOOOO. Peter, those are Cheerios."
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stormcloud8
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 8:39pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
- Date Edited:
5/22/05 8:40pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
stormcloud8
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OK, I finished ROTJ, so my thoughts on the saga as a whole are complete. Regarding ROTJ...it continues to be the most tragically flawed film in the saga. It is second in importance only to ROTS, but it just blows the whole serious tone of the film with all the Ewok crap. It should have been handled with a very serious tone like ROTS. Also, I definitely think it has the worst acting (Ford and Fisher) of any film in the saga.
That being said...the Throne Room duel has always been my favorite part of the saga, and it probably still is. It did feel different this time. Is Vader redeemed after the horrible things he did in ROTS? No, I don't think so anymore. Also, was he a changed man, or merely doing what he's been doing all along - killing anyone and anything who threatens his family. His redemption now is more sad than ever, but also bittersweet because I don't feel he can be redeemed. Plus it hit me harder this time - Anakin is dead. The hero/villain of the PT is dead.
Regarding the space battle - I still think it is better than ROTS. Clearly ROTS has better visuals, but the tension and action in ROTJ are better - as they should be.
Lastly, I think it is interesting that ROTJ has that 'prequel' feel to it - moments of greatness, but dragged down by pandering cuteness and some horribly delivered acting.
So now I think what I am left with is:
THE GREAT FILMS: ANH, TESB, ROTS
THE GOOD (BUT TRAGICALLY FLAWED) FILMS: TPM, AOTC, ROTJ
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bswb
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 11:39pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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StormCloud, I forgot who said it, but someone suggested that the "holy trilogy" is now 3-4-5.
I agree. 
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"Would it help if I got out and pushed?" "It might!" Mike's hockey blog: http://www.mikechenwriting.com/blog Freelance Writing & Consulting: http://www.mikechenwriting.com The rants of the Empire's Grumpy Moff: http://grumpymoff.blogspot.com (rated PG-13)
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GARTH_MAUL
Title: Photorealistic LACWAC Manager
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/22/05 11:47pm
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Meh. I never hated the Ewoks scenes as much as anyone else. ROTJ could have been better, but Jabba's palace, the last trip to Dagobah, and the space battle and Throne Room scenes are all awesome.
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Dustin + Tina =  Clone Wars discussion is in LACWAC forum!!! TCW Dec. 5th: Cloak of Darkness!
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TurnedJedi
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/23/05 1:42am
Subject:
RE: [ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga
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Personally I've never been bothered by the Ewoks. I grew up with them, and I remember it being so cool having a bunch of teddybears kick the crap out the evil Empire. And that feeling sort of lingers with me still. I like them. The scene with the dead Ewok is so sad.
To me the main problem with Jedi is Jabba's Palace. Don't get me wrong, I love Jabba, I love the rancor, but the rest is just a bunch of muppets. The sequence has not aged well. Plus it has nothing to do with the overall story of the film, it is just about getting Han free from the carbonite. Had it been intercut better with the Empire and the Death Star and the Emperor, maybe even more with the Alliance, it would have worked better.
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