Author Topic: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
Rilwen_Shadowflame  8519 posts
Registered: Mar '05
19061_Mara Jade
Date Posted: 10/29/07 4:56am Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
Roth went through his drawers and pulled out his old weapon, his double-sided red lightsaber, the tool of the sith. This wasn't him saying that he was embracing the sith, but rather that he was rejecting the Jedi. Bryce took it the wrong way when he turned both ends on and readied for battle.
God-moding. wink
Generally, people don't like it when you say for them how their characters take things etc.

The only time a person can get away with that, is with a preceding OOC that it's been agreed upon privately by the players. Oh, and that has to be the truth, too. tongue

Never think a duel is perfect. There's always something to improve. No, I don't care if you've written the scripts for the SW film fights, look at all the arguments that say those should have been improved too. tongue And for anyone who didn't...no perfection either. wink

 

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Sith-I-5  4815 posts
Registered: Aug '02
13776_Mace Windu<br>South Park
Date Posted: 10/29/07 2:10pm Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
My problem in doing a lightsabre fight is that on reading my opponent's description of their move, nine times out of ten, I have no idea what they just said.

What I mean is, I am facing the other character, but the words used don't actually translate into anything that I can visualise. I have no clue which direction the blade is coming from, and often, even if I do, no idea what to do about it, beyond the simple horizontal and vertical parries of the AOTC Visual Dictionary, or whatever that big white Dork-Kindersley "can-double-as-a-teatray" publication was.

 

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LightWarden  2438 posts
Registered: Oct '01
19249_20-Sided Die
Date Posted: 10/29/07 2:57pm Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
Fun fact: Nine out of ten times, the players don't know what they're doing either.

 

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Sentinel001  246 posts
Registered: Apr '07
Date Posted: 10/29/07 4:38pm Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
That's hardly God-modding, even if we hadn't agreed on it, which we did, assuming that someone is gonna react harshly when you turn on a light saber in front of them is more often that not a good assumption.

 

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DarkLordoftheFins  633 posts
Registered: Apr '07
Date Posted: 10/30/07 2:59am Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
Assuming others behavior is god-modding. I guess we must take it for granted everybody thinks he makes the other´s behavior logical.

Concerning the lightsaber-duel. the question is what do you want to archieve with it, I´d say. Shall it be the dramatic highlight of the RP and the conclusion of a story evolving around two characters. Then find a way to predict who wins, give the other god-modding ability and write a scene that is drama. Thrilling and tensed.

If you want to see "who-is-stronger" ask the GM and let him decide. For the players who say, well yours is by far stronger than mine are quite rare.

Andi n support of Rilwen . . . if you wanna life AVOID DUELS.

 

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Sith-I-5  4815 posts
Registered: Aug '02
13776_Mace Windu<br>South Park
Date Posted: 10/31/07 1:00pm Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
Sentinel001 posted:
That's hardly God-modding, even if we hadn't agreed on it, which we did, assuming that someone is gonna react harshly when you turn on a light saber in front of them is more often that not a good assumption.


I had a few free minutes, with nothing better to do, and thinking over the six films, we have seen a lightsabre turned on in front of someone else quite a good number of times, and I think, the only time we have seen harsh was when four or five jedi went to arrest Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith.

By far the majority, reaction-wise, we have relaxed nonchalance (eg. Qui Gon and Obi-Wan facing Maul at Theed; Han Solo in the 'Falcon lounge), to not-taking-a-blind-bit-of-notice (Jar Jar on first meeting Qui-Gon, when the latter uses his to deflect STAP laser fire).

Oops, times up.

 

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Saintheart  5826 posts
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered: Dec '00
39869_Aragon
Date Posted: 3/25 7:31pm Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling
*bump*

 

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Saintheart  5826 posts
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered: Dec '00
39869_Aragon
Date Posted: 4/26 7:50pm Subject: RE: Tips/Advice Articles: Lightsaber Dueling - Date Edited: 4/28 8:19pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Saintheart
Advanced Lightsaber Posting Technique 101 - WARNING. BREAKS MOST NORMAL RPG RULES.

Actually, it's not as dreadful as all that. What this tip fundamentally comes down to is this: lightsaber duels are often done better using combined posts rather than successive posts if you're aiming for a literate and memorable duel.

Combined posts, for the uninitiated, are posts where you agree the content and wording with a fellow player before it's actually put up on the thread, usually headed by something like "This is a combined post between DarkJedi666 and AngelJedi777" or something similar.

The reason this works better is simply because the intent of the two types of posting is different. With successive posts usually you're only throwing one strike per post, or tossing a bench at somebody using the Force. This can get tedious, in that a thirty-second duel takes the better part of three weeks to complete as you and your opponent go back and forth. There are some ways to deal with this and still get a literate duel, but for the most part this style should really be reserved for the more competitive types out there.

Combined posts, by contrast, are more about telling a good story of a duel. You get your techniques and moves worked out off the thread, so the characters then can have a thirty-second duel in less than three weeks. It allows you to be more literate and flashy in that you can go for moves which would ordinarily get your opponent saying "i stab u in back while u iz turned round lol!!!!!1!!!!". It also gives you and your fellow dueller a chance to cook up something that people really want to read.

The Forbidden Form: Godmoding in-thread.
Again, the title should give you some ideas how dangerous this technique is to use without getting banned from your game, but I'll cite it nonetheless. It takes years of maturity and experience on these boards to do it safely, along with a compliant GM, but I'll mention it anyway.

It's where you're duelling someone and you break the classic rule of not posting another person's reactions for the sake of a flashy duel. In doing so you GM in a very limited way, and only for the purposes of making the duel more interesting. And you clearly signal that intention OOC, asking the person's permission as you do.

As an example, I'd like to grab an old, old duel I had with the great Kai_Halicon back in the ancient days of "The Matrix: Flight of the Shenobi". Just to give you the context: Kai's character, Wraith (a Zion human), and mine, Cort (an ex-Agent program) are within the "dojo" scene in The Matrix.

My first post:

Cort raised an eyebrow as he took a quick glance around the dojo program. Version 2.21 of the Hokkaido Environment or some variant of it, he guessed. He turned his eye back to Wraith and let a thin smile cross his lips. "Seraph did always have a...flair...for the dramatic," he said easily. "There is some truth to what he says. Even for programs, perhaps."

Cort took the stetson off his head, tossing it across the room where it caught and hung on the end of one of the katana. "I admit you may find me less of a challenge than within the Matrix. I would imagine I can still accommodate you, though." Cort glanced down at his clothes, then smiled wryly at Wraith. "Forgive me, human. I am somewhat improperly dressed."

He closed his eyes, reaching down into the code--
(skin=987372)
--and opened his eyes again dressed in a white karate gi top, and a long, black pleated skirt that the samurai had once worn, and that some sensei in Japan still "wore". He folded his right hand into a fist, palmed it in his left, and squeezed it in front of his chest in a quick salute.

He selected Wing Chun from his library of techniques, and picked out the Tiger Style.

And exploded, from a standing start, into a long flying kick leading with his right foot, the traditional kiai roaring from his lips as he flew through the air at Wraith...

TAG: Kai

OOC: "My style is de art of fighting widdout fighting..." ... seriously, I know little about the martial arts, so please excuse any techniques you don't recognise. Fear not; I won't be pulling out the "TigerCraneDeathFist UnblockableUnbeatable Technique" ...



Now Kai's post:

OOC: Yeah, not a problem, Saintheart. I'm only babbling off what I've learnt from the most reputable sources of all knowledge - an extensive knowlege of arcade fighting games.

Minor GM warning:

IC: Network's response came a moment later and Wraith grinned.

"Sure. It might be interesting for the crew to watch combat with an Agent derivative in controlled environment...."

Before he could finish, Cort was upon him, a savage and fluid kick launching at him. Even in the restrained environment of the dojo application, Cort was still easily stronger and the kick caught Wraith's chest, sending him flying across the room. He smashed into a pillar, causing the wood to splinter. In real life, he'd of broken every bone in his ribcage and possible shattered his spine.

Nice opener.

Wraith got up and snapped his neck back into place with two resounding twists of his head. He came at Cort, snapping a driving punch with his left hand that was easily blocked. Following through he spun to face the opposite direction, thrusting back with his right elbow. It connected with Cort's stomach and was followed by a backhand to the nose. As Wraith turned around one hundred and eighty degrees, his left leg thrust forward in a kick that Cort was able to catch. However, it was easily countered by Wraith's backflip that tagged Cort's jaw with a kick from his right foot as he sommersaulted backwards, landing in a crouched pose.

Switching to a new combat form, akido, he awaited the next move.....

Tag: Saintheart



My response:

Minor GM warning

Recovering his balance, Cort ran his tongue along the inside of his top lip as the tingling from Wraith's kick faded. The human was fast indeed.

He recognised Wraith's stance and moved effortlessly into the second sequence of the Tiger Style, his hands weaving in front of him like a giant cat's paws. He ran at Wraith again, feigning another flying strike before launching into a series of high strikes aimed at Wraith's head. The human blocked or dodged--and, unnaturally fast, jumped over Cort's sweeping leg strike that had been aimed at Wraith's right leg.

Wraith went for one of the aikido armlocks, and almost got it, but a subtle twist of Cort's hands found the program free. Wraith swung a forearm at Cort's head, and the program dropped to one knee, pulling in his strength in this place.

And snapped a half-dozen knife-hand strikes at Wraith's solar plexus in less than half a second, compressing the time down so his blows would appear to overlap to an observer. Cort pulled the punches as much as he could, but even so he heard the "air" whoosh from Wraith's lungs and the human staggered back.

Cort snapped into a horizontal roll that carried him back about fifteen metres. He landed lightly on his feet and looked across with concern at Wraith--but the concern was unfounded; the human seemed to have shrugged off the strikes easily. Tougher than Cort had thought.

Cort glanced over at the weapons rack where his hat had landed. Two items drew his eye.

Grinning, he grabbed two of the long bamboo bo staffs, and tossed one across the room to Wraith, who caught it easily.

Cort wheeled his staff above his head and locked it into a defensive position behind his back, one hand forward. He gave a lopsided grin and curled the fingers of his free hand in a beckoning gesture.

TAG: Kai


Kai's reply:

GM Warning (as usual, only minor)

IC: The staff landed in his hands and Wraith tightened his grip on the solid length of wood. He was not an expert with the bo, preferring bladed weapons but had downloaded a programme or two to make him adept enough to weild it with some degree of threatening skill.

Cort taunted him forward and he acknowledged, moving to attack. Bad idea. Cort parried his fist attack with ease, a simple flick of his wrist sending Wraith's weapon astray. The first strike from Cort struck his neck, the second his left kidney. Doubling over, he fell prey to the staff being brought down on his shoulder blades then swinging in for a sweep that floored him.

He rolled asided to avoid a downwards hack that would of driven his face into the floor and rose, vaulting off his staff in a dropkick to Cort's face. Cort managed to roll with the blow and their weapons connected again, this time, Wraith's being thrown from his hand and across the room. He moved with inhuman speed, flipping over Cort and dashing to the weapons rack, where he retrieved a wooden training sword.

This battle was far from over....

This is not a fight for merely being a fight. It's a sign of honour between two warriors. A duel amongst equals.

His wooden bokken training sword in hand, he slashed forwards, the weapons resounding in cracking sounds as they met, each attack and counterattack flowing with a speed that surpassed most that the watching crew had seen before.

Sword still in hand, Wraith shifted to a backhand stance and began making short sliding steps around Cort, the other man firming his grip on the staff in his hands.
It was indeed, the ultimate battle between man and machine yet Wraith could now see it wasn't a battle of good and evil, just between two minds who wanted similar things but had very different ways of achieving them.

He prepared for Cort's counter.....

TAG: Saintheart



And my reply--

Minor GM warning

Cort was impressed in spite of himself. The human had managed to turn the battle to a weapon he was obviously familiar with. How was it that he could move so much like a machine, with such resolve, such purpose, and yet be nothing more than human?

Perhaps there is more to being human than merely being flesh and blood, a codeblock of the Oracle Mod whispered to him.

Cort put the thought aside for later consideration, and blocked another of Wraith's slashes. This could not continue, the strategic programming within him decided. The bo was a serviceable weapon, but its application against the bokken was limited. That weapon required a match of its own.

Wraith went for another attack from the right. Cort blocked, but windmilled the staff with greater force than necessary, blowing Wraith's bokken aside. Instead of taking the momentary advantage, Cort flowed with the movement of the staff, leaping backward in three butterfly maneuvers, back to the arsenal. He slapped the staff back into place and snatched up a second bokken, turning into Wraith's charge, calling on the kenjutsu styles he knew.

Something was different about Wraith's attack this time. The human was moving faster, quicker than Cort had seen before. Of course, he thought to himself. Edged weapons are his forte.

So the program decided to pull out all the stops, to truly test Wraith's strengths. He brought up the bokken to meet Wraith's Reed Thin, Oaken Arm technique with Wall of Water. Then attacked.

The styles, the techniques blurred so quickly, the bokken clashing together in a swift staccato. Summer Grass met The Campfire. Firefly, blocked with Lotus Blossum. Boar Rushes Downhill met Lion's Cave. Raincloud against Scattered Lanterns. Cort felt himself sensing an alien emotion, as the Oracle Mod opened further within him, shifting his programming even further.

The program was enjoying this.

Cort sensed a minor, small defect in the angle of Wraith's blade; perhaps a hair's-breadth out. It was enough. Cort snapped his bokken out, and Wraith's weapon went wide. Cort brought the weapon down, stopping it effortlessly an inch above Wraith's head--

To find Wraith's clenched fist an inch away from Cort's face in a strike that might have stunned him had Wraith intended it to connect.

For a long second, program and human stood still in the position, staring at one another. Finally, Cort felt the flicker of a smile. "I offer a draw...Wraith."

TAG: Kai



And Kai's last post--

OOC: Great post, Saintheart. A fitting ending to a short but sweet duel.

IC: Wraith relaxed his muscles as Cort finished his comment in regards to a truce. He noted it was the first time the programme had used his name and it indicated to Wraith that the machine developed some sort of warrior's respect for him.

It had been no easy battle, that was for certain, but Wraith founding himself enjoying it for having a relative degree of difficulty. With his Matrix-enhanced skills, there were few fighters equal to him or the crew of the Shinobi within the mainframe itself and it was refreshing to come up against someone so varient in their techniques, much like him.

It made Wraith wonder for a moment about how well he might fare against The One in combat. He'd met Neo once before and he had a great deal of respect for him and his fighting skills.

Standing up straight, he stretched his arms out and bowed, clenching his right fist within his left palm.

"I accept, Cort. Thank you for your participation. I can see how profficient you would of been at policing the Matrix."

Wraith cocked his head upwards, as if indicating to an unseen ally.

"Computer. Please load lounge_bar.exe and wraith_attire/smart_casual02."

"Complying"

In a blur of white light, the dojo was replaced by the location of an inner-city sidestreet, a local tavern behind the two men. Wraith's gi had been substituted for the blue shirt/grey suit he was wearing earlier with the addition of his glasses. He took a seat at the table nearest to them outdoors and lit up a cigarette.

"Computer, please inform the crew that it may be important for them all to be here, including Ash if she's up to it. We need to discuss our next course of action together and it's better if we do it here where Cort can interact with everyone face to face."

"Complying. Message will be relayed to crew via operator:Network."

Wraith indicated for Cort to sit opposite him.

"Well, Mr Cort, perhaps you should start telling me about the Matrix's operational programmes and whatever information you can offer than will help bring them down....."


Tag: Everyone.





...And there you have it. No combined post, successive posts only.

Points to remember using this technique:

(1) Signal godmoding warnings well ahead of time (in fact, for new users, ask your GM first.)

(2) Acknowledge the other dueller's skills within the duel. This is a point of etiquette.

(3) Leave truly irreversible decisions (loss of an arm, death, etc) to the other dueller. It's for them to decide whether to submit to that sort of injury.

 

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Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife.
Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007
Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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