| Author |
Topic:
The Game Designers Guild
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darthramza
Registered:
Jul '08
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Date Posted:
8/9 10:24pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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Out of curiosity, why the bit about how 100 B = $1? It normally wouldn't matter, but it makes notation like "$12,000,000 berries" a bit confusing. From a prospective player's perspective, I can't tell if that's $12,000,000, which is then 1,200,000,000 berries, or 12,000,000 berries, which is $120,000.
And other than the spelling stuff that you mentioned earlier, I think it's a pretty good and well-developed idea for an RP.
-----signature-----
"But, it was so artistically done."
Co-GM of When Galaxies Collide: A Major AU RPG
Physics is like the Force: It has two main fields of study and controls the flow of all things
Game Designer's Guild, Character Designer's Guild
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NickLitYouAFlame
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
8/9 10:32pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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Did you just say "nick pick"? Seriously? I wasn't talking about you anyway. I was generalizing.
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I don't know.
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TheManinBlack
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
8/9 10:40pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
- Date Edited:
8/9 10:50pm (4 edits total)
Edited By:
TheManinBlack
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AGGGHHHHH the spelling agian  Nothing aginast you, Nick or the English lanague
Well I tried fixing up the "vast,vast" amounts of spelling error....but Mircosoft Word fails me. I want to kick Bill Gates in the chin.
100B is $1 was meant to give the currency some scale. Light was right on target when he said Non One Piece Terms needed to be explained. This isn't Star Wars. Need to gentley lead players who haven't read One Piece into this world.
the greatest thing about NSW Rps is though....even if they are good, they tend to die fast. Feel free to sign up though darthramza...and anyone else (insert Puupy dog pis) if no me for the cure little puppy
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darthramza
Registered:
Jul '08
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Date Posted:
8/9 10:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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Um, it's "again"...
Just kidding. Seriously, the spelling errors aren't prevalent enough to really warrant another revision like with the first version. A post that long is bound to have a few typos, after all.
-----signature-----
"But, it was so artistically done."
Co-GM of When Galaxies Collide: A Major AU RPG
Physics is like the Force: It has two main fields of study and controls the flow of all things
Game Designer's Guild, Character Designer's Guild
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TheManinBlack
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
8/9 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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darthramza posted:
Um, it's "again"...
Where is that Scanners pic of the Guy's head exploding when you need it?
Thanks for the compliment though seriously. Light Warden being the only one replying to your RP has a tendcey to feel like You've been kicked in the groin.
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Saintheart
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
8/10 6:42pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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MIB, he's only trying to help. I would hazard a guess that the rest of us either don't know the intricacies of the anime show involved to properly evaluate or correspond as to the strength or otherwise of your game. Light seems to know the franchise involved, and he responded in his usual style.
One other thing to point out, though:
the greatest thing about NSW Rps is though....even if they are good, they tend to die fast.
It's thinking like that which is bringing the NSWRPF to its knees with every abandoned game. By and large, the two biggest reasons games fail in that area are as follows:
(a) Bad design; and
(b) Bad maintenance.
A fair portion of games do fail because of (a): the GM doesn't set out the universe involved with enough clarity or detail for newcomers to get themselves into the universe involved. Or alternatively he just throws people in without any sort of game or mission at all. Both are recipes for disaster, because usually the players who sign up (if not the GM) are more interested only in the coolness factor of making Pikachu breathe fire on other players, rather than actually participating in a decent story/game. The result? Epic failure.
But at this point in my experience, I think that, of these two, (b) is the more common cause of failure. I see a lot of abandonments in the NSWRPF because the author just disappears off the game altogether without an explanation and leaves his players languishing in despair. (On that I might say mea culpa, because I've abandoned games as well after Darth RL overwhelms me. But not in the first hundred posts, at least as far as I remember). This is because, as I have repeatedly said, and as I have expanded upon in the GM FAQ at some length, RPGs do not run themselves. The GM has to take responsibility for making sure that people are happy with the experience they're having (as opposed to happy with what tribulations are currently affecting their characters), that updates are coming, that players aren't disappearing without explanation, that the game remains fresh and interesting.
Hammer coined the "Market Metaphor" for game success. I also support a "Party Metaphor", partially stolen from David Gerrold: a RPG is similar to a party. As GM, you are the host, and your players your guests. A good host doesn't leave his guests without food or drinks. He makes sure his house is clean, the music's good, and he speaks firmly to any one of his guests who's behaving like an idiot to the annoyance or detriment of other guests. Most importantly, the host doesn't disappear from the party without an explanation and leave all his guests to clean up after him.
The upshot of all that? I have a beef with the idea that NSWRPF RPGs tend to die fast overall. NSWRPF struggles to survive as it is; it doesn't need a false belief that "NSWRPFs die fast" to give it the coup de grace. The attrition rate for NSWRPF RPGs has a lot more to do with the individual GM's crappy design or crappy maintenance than the NSWRPF as a whole.
-----signature-----
Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife.
Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007
Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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DarthCemeroX
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
8/10 7:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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MIB just pointed something out to me, but anime inspired rpgs seems to be making a steady incline.
FMA
NArtuo
DBZ
One Peice
among others
-----signature-----
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/183956 pygmy guru ftw "The spectator believes what they see... the artist sees what the believe" http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/184494
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
8/10 7:58pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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We've had anime based RPGs since this board opened. They're about as prolificly short-lived now as they were then. The NSWRPF has been about 45% anime, 40% other franchises, 15% original games. It's only the incompetence of the GMs that leaves them as burned-out hulks littering the board.
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CDG Guild Master
Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
The Internet is SERIOUS BIZNESS!
It's all fun and games until someone loses a leg.
TF.N RPGs: Less fun than pretending to have sex
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TheManinBlack
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
8/10 8:00pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
- Date Edited:
8/10 8:03pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
TheManinBlack
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Saintheart posted:
MIB, he's only trying to help. I would hazard a guess that the rest of us either don't know the intricacies of the anime show involved to properly evaluate or correspond as to the strength or otherwise of your game. Light seems to know the franchise involved, and he responded in his usual style.
One other thing to point out, though:
the greatest thing about NSW Rps is though....even if they are good, they tend to die fast.
It's thinking like that which is bringing the NSWRPF to its knees with every abandoned game. By and large, the two biggest reasons games fail in that area are as follows:
(a) Bad design; and
(b) Bad maintenance.
A fair portion of games do fail because of (a): the GM doesn't set out the universe involved with enough clarity or detail for newcomers to get themselves into the universe involved. Or alternatively he just throws people in without any sort of game or mission at all. Both are recipes for disaster, because usually the players who sign up (if not the GM) are more interested only in the coolness factor of making Pikachu breathe fire on other players, rather than actually participating in a decent story/game. The result? Epic failure.
But at this point in my experience, I think that, of these two, (b) is the more common cause of failure. I see a lot of abandonments in the NSWRPF because the author just disappears off the game altogether without an explanation and leaves his players languishing in despair. (On that I might say mea culpa, because I've abandoned games as well after Darth RL overwhelms me. But not in the first hundred posts, at least as far as I remember). This is because, as I have repeatedly said, and as I have expanded upon in the GM FAQ at some length, RPGs do not run themselves. The GM has to take responsibility for making sure that people are happy with the experience they're having (as opposed to happy with what tribulations are currently affecting their characters), that updates are coming, that players aren't disappearing without explanation, that the game remains fresh and interesting.
Hammer coined the "Market Metaphor" for game success. I also support a "Party Metaphor", partially stolen from David Gerrold: a RPG is similar to a party. As GM, you are the host, and your players your guests. A good host doesn't leave his guests without food or drinks. He makes sure his house is clean, the music's good, and he speaks firmly to any one of his guests who's behaving like an idiot to the annoyance or detriment of other guests. Most importantly, the host doesn't disappear from the party without an explanation and leave all his guests to clean up after him.
The upshot of all that? I have a beef with the idea that NSWRPF RPGs tend to die fast overall. NSWRPF struggles to survive as it is; it doesn't need a false belief that "NSWRPFs die fast" to give it the coup de grace. The attrition rate for NSWRPF RPGs has a lot more to do with the individual GM's crappy design or crappy maintenance than the NSWRPF as a whole.
I never hassaled Light Warden Review of my game...not once. Just began a half rant on the Spell Check part of it. More intoned with humor than actual anger. Need to work on that agian.
And secondly....John Doe syndrome does seem to be the major factor of death...but I also see alot of game just sitting there and dying. Games that have a large amount of quality. Games by Greyjedi of all people. Don't tell his suffers from "Lack of design".
I'll take you up on that bet that 40% of the game son her are Naruto/Shoen Jump based Light. Naruto have have been tried 6 times...and One Piece once besides mine up there now.
but most of time its orginial creation or Superheros. Not Ninja's firing Charakra attacks.
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DarthCemeroX
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
8/10 8:04pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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Oohh heh, disgruntled.
I'll admit they are short lived. I've done one or two and one died because I had to leave the boards for personal crap. The other was just a hard game to get through.
I think they're good though. As far as original RPGs, I just never really got into those. I like existing universes to play in.
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http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/183956 pygmy guru ftw "The spectator believes what they see... the artist sees what the believe" http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/184494
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Imperial_Hammer
Title: Manager:
• SWRPF
• NSWRPF
• RPR
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
8/10 8:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
- Date Edited:
8/10 8:31pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Imperial_Hammer
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Nice Metaphor Saint! 
MIB, I will add my own personal spin on it all. I believe the reason why games tend to fail is because people do not put the work into advertisement and social building.
To work within Saint's wonderful metaphor, I explain the locked games for two reasons:
1.) There are a ton of games that are done by upstart GMs that haven't built up their "street cred." Its running the party without having any friends. You can make the most excellent party available, but if no one knows you, or no one feels comfortable with you, you'll always get players that shy away. I believe the greatest secret to success in the RPF is getting to know people. This is an e-community. There are friends, there are cliques, and there most certainly are reputations. Might not be fair, might not be right, but that's the nature of the beast. If you make friends here, your chances improve dramatically that these people will play your game.
Again, the new kid at school generally doesn't go and right away invite people to his/her party. They get some friends, and then do something.
2.) Even the "popular kids" sometimes strike out. If the party is good, I'd wager its not getting guests because its not being advertised! No one will come to a party they don't know is happening. Or that they don't think is cool! So too with games. People need to know that you're serious, and that your party is worth coming to! To this end, friends help. Also, there are threads in the RPR for advertising your games.
Firstly, this is my humble opinion. I'm sure there are some here that will disagree.
And this certainly is not to discount Saint's analysis!
Like the party analogy goes, the importance goes in this order...
1.) Get a place that you can party in (good game design)
2.) Be a good host (good GMship)
But this is just the base level. To really get a happening rave going on, you also need to...
3.) Have some friends (good social skills)
4.) Get the word out (good advertisement and reputation)
Can 3 and 4 trump 1 and 2? I believe to some degree, but certainly not all the way. It gives you some leeway to make some mistakes in the first two, but will never fully replace them.
Yah, success is tough!
-I_H
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Guildmaster of the GDG
*Now looking for a new RPF Adoptee*
The Jedi Way is something found within, not in the dead walls of any Order
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Saintheart
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
8/10 8:32pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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TheManinBlack posted:
And secondly....John Doe syndrome does seem to be the major factor of death...but I also see alot of game just sitting there and dying. Games that have a large amount of quality. Games by Greyjedi of all people. Don't tell his suffers from "Lack of design".
I don't know what Grey thinks about being drawn into this debate, but respectfully, your analysis is false. Greyjedi's current NSWRPG, "Tears of Scarlet", has a total of 10 posts as at the time of writing. Those posts are devoted entirely to character sheets only -- as opposed to many bad NSWRPGs which have already started and collapsed by that point. I wouldn't class it as sitting there and dying when it hasn't even had its first game post as yet.
I also reject your thesis that it's "John Doe" syndrome that kills most NSWRPGs -- if by that you mean players always gravitate to authors that they know. You might like to look for a failed SWRPG called "Titanomachy", or go look up a user named "Phantasmagoria." You should find it in a locked thread about three or four pages back from the first page of the SWRPG boards. Phantasmagoria was a newcomer to these boards, and "Titanomachy" his first RPG on these forums, albeit that he'd had a good deal of previous RPing experience from what we could see. Go and take a look at the opening post for "Titanomachy", and then look at the response he had from the roleplaying community. He had a full complement of players and a waiting list of people champing at the bit in a matter of days. He was a complete unknown, but the design of his game and his own apparent maturity gave a tremendous number of people confidence that he'd be able to deliver.
The game failed because he disappeared off the boards before starting it. But the thread serves to show how wrong it is to think name recognition drives RPGs. He wasn't running a Legacy RPG. He wasn't running a KOTOR RPG. He wasn't running a Clone Wars RPG. Pure inspiration, presentation, and good game design created the response he got - not his name.
Now go and look at any RPG -- SWRPG or otherwise -- which has been locked after about 10-20 posts and tell me what you see in the opening post. Compare it against "Titanomachy" and tell me what you see. Look at most failed anime RPGs and tell me what you see.
What I see when I look at such failed RPGs is generally one of the following:
(a) The author relying on an obscure cartoon, comic, or concept which has no audience in the wider public;
(b) The author being unable to explain that franchise to the public at large;
(c) A badly-written, badly-edited, grammatically poor first post;
(d) A GM who doesn't update enough, or updates with one-line posts;
(e) A GM who disappears when he realises he hasn't got the time to do the work involved;
(f) A GM who has no plan for his players beyond the coolness of being in the universe in question; or
(g) All or any of the above in combination.
I particularly nominate (a) and (c) in recent times. Which frustrates the living daylights out of me, because I want dozens and dozens of successful RPGs in NSWRPF. I want dozens and dozens of happy players who on any given day can pick a good five or six RPGs to participate in where the GM knows what s/he is doing and they'll be assured of a really good RPGing experience.
Instead I contend with (a) - (g) on a daily basis. And I contend with complaints that "nobody wants to play in my RPGs!" I contend with all of these in a forum which has a very proud and quality history of excellent RPGs. All of which saddens me more than you can imagine -- because the answers are all there in the GM FAQ, or with older people on these forums. Ktala herself was nice enough to let me include her very pointed and very well-titled article in the FAQ: "Why we don't play in your games". Can't get much more explicit than that.
I would love to see some changes with respect to this.
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Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife.
Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007
Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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DarthCemeroX
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
8/10 8:36pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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My question revolves around the "nature of the beast".
Did anybody come here to relive highschool? Are we role players, or selfish, clanish, immature preteens who just can't get along?
Do we judge a game by the popularity or "street cred" of the GM or the game itself.
I mean would you vote for somebody because they were the coolest dude ever, or because they had a good plan for America. And if we know it's a problem, or an issue. Why haven't week attempted to remedy it. Nobody says a diseas is okay because it's how nature works, they try to cure it. I think if a forum is to prosper this issue should be taken very seriously and not blown off.
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http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/183956 pygmy guru ftw "The spectator believes what they see... the artist sees what the believe" http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/184494
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
8/10 8:42pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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Top ten biggest RPGs in the NSWRPF:
1) The Xavier Institute for Higher Learning: Path of Heroes. greyjedi125, 2,091 posts.
2) Xavier Institute for Higher Learning. Zedd_Vega, 1918 posts. Moved to the above thread.
3) Exiles - (a massive crossover). Dubya_Scott, 1854 posts.
4) A Tide of Flames: a d20 Dungeons & Dragons adventure. Saintheart, ~1100 posts and still going.
5) The Lords of Middle-Earth: Door of Night. Jango10, ~1000 posts and still going.
6) Pirates of the Caribbean III: At the World's End. Imperial Hammer, 950 posts
7) Operation Overlord. Jango10, 749 posts.
8) Splinter Cell: The Next Generation. MASTERPRENN. 716 posts.
9) F.E.A.R (First Encounter Assault Recon) "Is truth scarier than fiction?". LORDVIGILANCE, 698 posts
10) Path of the Elements. Darth_Elu, 517 posts.
An RPG ends when the GM either runs out of players or runs out of steam. If you do not want your game to wilt, have an idea of where you want to go, and work hard to make sure your players are interested, making a difference and having fun. I mean seriously work hard, you are not going to get RPF superstardom just by resting on your laurels. Newbie games aren't about reg dates, they're about competence. If you're not dedicating yourself to providing a great experience for everyone else involved, you probably aren't that competent.
-----signature-----
CDG Guild Master
Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
The Internet is SERIOUS BIZNESS!
It's all fun and games until someone loses a leg.
TF.N RPGs: Less fun than pretending to have sex
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
8/10 8:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Designers Guild
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Hammer, 3 & 4 are 100% short-term support. Having a lot of it will help you draw players to your door, but it will all be for nothing if you've got nothing to back it up on. You only need a modicum of stuff in that area just to get the initial player base, everything else depends on your skill.
-----signature-----
CDG Guild Master
Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
The Internet is SERIOUS BIZNESS!
It's all fun and games until someone loses a leg.
TF.N RPGs: Less fun than pretending to have sex
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