| Author |
Topic:
The Character Designers Guild
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
6/4 9:49pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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With weak excuses like that, you won't get any better. But maybe that doesn't bother you. If so, then why are you reading this thread? I am well aware that my ambitions outstrip my abilities, that's why I try to do more. If I let myself be content with what I have, I'll never be as good as I want to be.
It's entirely possible to make a character like the one you described and not be a walking stereotype, but it involves work on your part. If all you are is a sum of those parts, then yes, you'll be shallow and boring. If you look at your works and say "that's all right", then that's all it will be. I don't want to build a character on cheap tricks, whose presence comes and goes like the tides, using ideas I never came up with and power that was never mine. I don't want a character to win fights for no reason other than I soothed the ego of the one running the opposition, and I don't want to feel as though I'm simply filling a roster. I want my character to do impressive things, but with my character's wits and drive rather than a wave of my character's hand. I want to know that though my character isn't the best in the galaxy, he or she can still make a difference. I want characters to have more interesting relations than sworn enemies/distant coworkers/twu wuv. I want my characters to be predictable, not because they're simple, but because you can understand them. At the same time, I want my characters to surprise both me and others. I want my characters to be simple, silly, and irrelevant. I want my characters to be complex, serious, and of dire significance.
I've read books, played games, and watched shows where I was actually immersed in the story, and wanted to find out what happened to the characters even if I wasn't making a contribution myself. You can use just about anything, so long as you use it well. I want to create interesting characters in interesting games, I want to be as immersing as my favorite series. I know I haven't made it far enough, which is why I'm going to keep trying.
As to your suggestion of "play a game", well, there's nothing here that:
1) Is interesting to me
2) Is open
and
3) I'm not presently helping run
I'm not interested in academy games because I don't feel like climbing a social ladder, and I'm not interested in everyone vs. everyone war games because they feel too large, too focused on an arbitrary conflict, and too likely to stalemate if you can't figure out how to "win".
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CDG Guild Master
Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
The Internet is SERIOUS BIZNESS!
It's all fun and games until someone loses a leg.
TF.N RPGs: Less fun than pretending to have sex
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/4 10:07pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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"Getting better at it" is an excellent reason to try, and I applaud you for trying; however, I think you're being narrow-minded. You want all these things that you describe very well, yet you don't participate in games, and therefore can't really improve your craft.
As far as "weak excuses" go, your reasons for not playing a game are among the weakest I've heard. Fair enough, you might not actually be interested in a single concept on these boards, which I'm more than likely going to believe is the case, but you're not running every game and not every game has begun yet. If you mean that there are no interesting games that you're not running, again, fair enough.
I personally think your standards are ridiculously high and therefore nothing will ever satisfy you in life, but that's just me.
I want to improve my writing and wordcraft, but not at the expense of enjoying it. Yes, it's hard work, but if you're goal-oriented, you're missing out on a large amount of the lessons.
I would like to see a few examples of what you want in terms of characters and IC posting, if you have any, that is.
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"Don't try to take me away, like I can't live without you."
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GDG
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NickLitYouAFlame
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
6/4 10:18pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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It takes more than one person to Tango, though. The success of your own character is dependant upon the cooperation of your fellow Roleplayers, is it not? It's everyone around you that need good, wholesome characters to work with your own. But, everyone wants an epic character that is just as epic as you detail. And, when everyone is super... no one is.
I don't know, do you see what I am saying? We need those characters that act with a certain amount of badassery that makes it seem like they are trying too hard and detract from their environments. It takes a skilled writer to dance around the fact and deliver a meaningful message, while the other simultaneously butchers it beyond recognition. Asking for everyone to act with even slight intelligence will leave you with little to speak for, because most of our writers are just as bland as their characters. No offense, to you bland folks out there, you fill a roster, just like your unspectacular creations.
So, anyway, LightWarden, while I understand where you are coming from, you can be a bit judgmental at times. And, everyone knows that you are a great writer, but you can't grade everyone off of the same scale in this environment. Or, you can, but it doesn't really show much. You need to critique a character with a scale just a bit more advanced than the skill that the writer exemplifies, to get an accurate grade of the persona. Otherwise, you are just criticizing, lacking constructiveness. Having an oldbie tell you how wrong you are is pretty nerve-racking and serves to steer new members from getting to a level that you find acceptable.
I didn't mean to rant, though. I was just trying to dispel any negative emotions.
-----signature-----
Flannel
Shoes
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
6/4 11:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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Penguin: That's exactly what I mean, the only games with premises I've been interested in are the ones I've helped make. This is not to say that I have some sort of Midas Touch or something.
As to "I personally think your standards are ridiculously high and therefore nothing will ever satisfy you in life, but that's just me"... well, I can safely say that you're completely wrong there and there are things that I absolutely love, which is why I am so adamant with my personal standards because I am trying to elevate these things to that level.
I'm not goal-oriented, I just like to make things I can be proud of and enjoy.
As to examples, that's fairly easy: I need to see that your characters mean something to other characters around you that you don't control. You can't really break this down mechanically, it just leads to people attempting to imitate the form without capturing the spirit and wondering what they did wrong.
Nick: I object to your idea that you can't have all the player characters be epic. Sure, you might get some people who overshadow others, but if you have a good GM and good players, one of the basic ideas is to share the spotlight. If your players are all on the same side, then there's a sense of pride and accomplishment in taking down a challenge together. Sure, you may need some other characters to show just how strong the PCs are, but why wouldn't you delegate that role to the NPCs if your GM is anywhere near competent? If the player character power structure is terribly unbalanced, that's just poor game design.
And how is it that you can say that "most of our writers are just as bland as their characters" and then tell me that I'm a bit judgmental and shouldn't grade everyone off the same scale? I don't believe in lowering my standards, because reaching for lofty goals is how you get better than you were before. I do not believe I am a particularly good writer. Some of my ideas interest me, but my ability to tell a consistently engrossing story with a variety of engaging characters is severely lacking. Thus, I must do better. I do not think my standards are particularly high (rather, the board seems to tolerate a rather saddening degree of characterization). And I think "stop doing that" is a pretty decent form of constructive criticism. Since being a good character is more about being engaging and believable, I can't say "you're a good character if you do X, Y, and Z", but it's easier to say something like "your character is excessively powerful and important, yet has no real personality." You can fix that.
-----signature-----
CDG Guild Master
Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
The Internet is SERIOUS BIZNESS!
It's all fun and games until someone loses a leg.
TF.N RPGs: Less fun than pretending to have sex
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Saintheart
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
6/5 12:56am
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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Saintheart Homily: All right, gang, that's about as far as everybody needs to go with this. The topic is ventilated, it's out there, and whatever else needs to be said can be said by PM without breaching the TOS. I'm not interested in the merits of anybody's argument here, just keeping it all within TOS, PG and family friendly lines. People have said their piece and had their right of reply, and now we need to move on.
If people choose not to move on, consider yourselves advised that liberal applications of my razor-edged halo, if not a certain ethereal hammer, may follow -- and will target posts, if not users' accounts. Clear?
-----signature-----
Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife.
Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007
Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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SephyCloneNo15
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
6/5 4:23pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
- Date Edited:
6/5 7:04pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Saintheart
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St. Edit: Funny or not, that's getting personal. I asked folks to drop it and move on. That goes for new entrants to the conversation.
-----signature-----
Member: GDG, GMG. Sub-GM: CDG
Zam Wessel Lives!
Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Squib Creations Limited-Edition Replica Glove of Darth Vader™
"Samuel L. Jackson isn't only a fine actor, but a gamer. He's one of us." ~ Kotaku
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
6/5 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
- Date Edited:
6/5 7:06pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Saintheart
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This is actually one of my favorite threads here, though I rarely post in it.
St. Edit: C'mon, guys. This isn't helping.
-----signature-----
and i know no one can sing the blues like blind willie mctell
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/5 9:02pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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It's an interesting thread, but I wouldn't call it my favourite. 
I've actually been wondering for some time now on how some players do such an excellent job at writing their characters so well. Is it just knowing every possible nuance and the nitty-gritty of it all, or do you keep it looser and vague?
-----signature-----
"Don't try to take me away, like I can't live without you."
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GDG
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NickLitYouAFlame
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
6/5 9:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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Both are alright in some situations. Obviously, more detail gives people a better view of your character, but if you develop all of your quirks when you make the sheet, there is considerably less to do in the down time during a game.
-----signature-----
Flannel
Shoes
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
6/5 9:22pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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Oof. And I don't even remember what I posted. Anyways, I certainly meant no offense.
-----signature-----
and i know no one can sing the blues like blind willie mctell
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/5 10:04pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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I always feel that if I put everything down, I can't do anything with the character.
-----signature-----
"Don't try to take me away, like I can't live without you."
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GDG
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NickLitYouAFlame
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
6/5 10:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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That's what I mean. And, then you may seek to be one of those guys.
-----signature-----
Flannel
Shoes
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Reynar_Tedros
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
6/5 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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I hate the Biography section of character sheets. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I can't come up with a compelling backstory that quick! Let me evolve...
-----signature-----
Gaming: Guitar Hero III, Mass Effect, Saints Row XBL GamerTag: martian janitor http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_fan_fiction/b10808/28827381/p1/?2
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DarthXan318
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
6/5 11:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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I hate the Personality section.  I can never stick to anything but the vaguest personality sketch - it's all well and good, but when I start writing the character takes on a life of their own, I swear.
-----signature-----
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I will be chasing the starlight
until the end of my life
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
6/6 5:02am
Subject:
RE: The Character Designers Guild
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I hate the part where I pour time and effort into a character sheet, and then the GM abandons the game before it really gets going.
-----signature-----
and i know no one can sing the blues like blind willie mctell
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