| Author |
Topic:
The Game Masters Guild
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
12/1/06 12:29pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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Well, you could always learn from others. It's not perfect, but it does have several good ideas, especially dealing with the option to further customize your powers by altering certain aspects of them. Covers a wide variety of things too. But of course, it uses points. Gasp, shock, quiver.
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Obi-Wan21
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/1/06 12:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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Yet it uses a point buy system for each power? We aren't doing that. Unless someone can come up with a different inclusion to upgrade powers by level, I'm just going to throw that out the window, and come up with something myself. Or remove that basis of leveling all-together. Our characters are just waking to their abilities, they'll learn, and they'll have a weakness, both personal and relating to their power.
But points lost, and we aren't doing it. Now, if someone cannot come up with something that actually relates to what we have, this debate is pointless.
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Pheonix_Rising
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
12/1/06 2:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
- Date Edited:
12/1/06 2:19pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Pheonix_Rising
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Obi_Wan21 posted:
Yet it uses a point buy system for each power? We aren't doing that. Unless someone can come up with a different inclusion to upgrade powers by level,
Hmmm...I Think LightWarden and I already had our EXCELLENT idea beaten with a rubber mallet. D20 would be a perfect reference for this kind of system, you don't necessarilly(sp?) level up by fighting, it is only one of many ways. You can get experience by hacking a computer, you could get it by flirting with a barmaid and you can get it by simply shooting an arrow at an archery range. there are so many different ways to do this that you are putting Neural Inhibitors on your players by putting the 'weak' powers and the 'strong' on the same level... It's just wrong.
And as for this:
Obi_Wan21 posted:
and come up with something myself.
I'm thinking not, the GDG has already put work into this...it would be disrespectful if you just wen and changed something without bringing it up for discussion first.
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
12/1/06 8:09pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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But... your slot system sucks. Your only arguments were "We don't like the freedom to make choices" and "players will become samey" (which is all sorts of ridiculous). And in exchange for you this protection, you gain the ability to make characters who are completely railroaded into developing their characters around a specific path, and who basically wind up gimping themselves if they choose powers that aren't 1) scalable and 2) moderate in strength.
And now you won't learn from a system that has already considered the same problems you're facing? Mr. Edgeworth, your rebuttal? I'm not calling this system the be-all, end-all, but there's certainly a great deal you could learn about scaling powers from it.
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Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
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SephyCloneNo15
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
12/1/06 9:57pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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LightWarden posted:
Every power will literally have to be able to advance, and not all of them can do that. Such as wallcrawling.
Hmm... if only there was some sort of system where you weren't automatically forced to maximize one power to the best of your ability, and could instead pick and choose powers in accordance with your vision...
    
I think that about sums up the hilariousness of this post (possibly lost on the GMG crowd if they aren't participating GDG members)
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
12/2/06 4:16pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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Thing is, when you guys were having the original vote, I thought when you said "Slots", you were referring to a system like the following.
You have six power slots. Minor powers take up 1 slot, moderate take up 2 to 3 and major take up 4 to 6. Powers have five levels, and start off at level 1. As you progress in the game, your GM will give you a suitably heroic marker for accomplishing things he feels are important enough, like defeating your rivals, saving the day, becoming the spokesperson for GeneriCorp, etc. You spend them to boost your powers in accordance with their original cost. Thus lesser powers would scale up faster than major powers (hey, it isn't easy to tell the laws of physics to shut up and sit down). You might even include a spot for one-shot "flavor abilities" that don't really scale up very well, like wall-crawling, photographic reflexes, danger sense or omnilingual (would you really want to put your player through that kind of grief? "Hurrah, level 3! I now speak every language known to man, and a few only known to monkeys!"). Because if you want things to level, you're probably going to have to come up with some mechanical system for it.
Still doesn't allow people the freedom to be something like Spider-man, who's got some superstrength, but not to the Hulk's level, along with being slightly faster than normal/better reflexes, but not to the level of speedsters, somewhat smarter than average, but not super-genius, skilled at jumping and acrobatics, as well as other powers like a danger sense, wall-crawling, and the ability to fire webs. Too many abilities for your game.
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Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 12:27am
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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I don't feel that a number system should determine what I can or cannot write about in a game.
And anyways, LW, how does a points system change this situation? Yes, you could write "12 points in super-strength means you can lift X lbs/kgs/whatever", but the problem is always about how players follow these instructions. The game shouldn't need to be managed day and night by Obi-Wan21, he's probably got real, tangible problems to deal with.
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Imperial_Hammer
Title: Manager:
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Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 12:11pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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Agreed with Penguinator. Points are very complicated to do. I'm not a D20 person. I don't want to deal with excessive math. If I fight someone, I don't want to check my STR points against my foes, maybe having to factor in INT or DEX or whatever acronyms are used. IMO, these boards focus more on creative writing than anything. Something a slots system is more focused to. Until I see a mathematical style game succeed, myself as a Game Designer will always be wary of overly numerizing games...
Moving to the big issue:
The Points/Slots debate, gentlemen, was settled with a long and absolutely heated debate in the GDG. In the end it was settled by a fair majority vote. I think its a bit unfair to continue grousing about the issue. Because it literally can go on forever.
To the Points People: if you think you can do better with your system, write up a first post and toss it to the GDG. It's not going to replace the game we're doing now, but I'd be happy to bring it in under the examination table.
I do have a critique however for Obi-Wan...
But that will go in the GDG, as it has to do with Systems Issues...
-I_H
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 1:06pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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Imperial_Hammer posted:
Until I see a mathematical style game succeed, myself as a Game Designer will always be wary of overly numerizing games...
It's not nearly as dangerous as you're making it out to be.
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Obi-Wan21
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 3:40pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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You misunderstood my point. I'm sticking with slots, I'm not destoying what I wanted in the first place. But we're going for slots, there will be no leveling up. And the disadvantage and new rulings should help this. Even though it won't be a problem.
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Darth_Vaders_cousin
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 8:06pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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Obi, I've a problem with teh system.
I think there should be leveling...not so much leveling as power-gain. It most Super Hero stories, characters get stronger and gain powers as they go. Like the X-men, who were known for secondary, and sometimes even thrid mutations. I think characters who do alot, or such, should get an extra power level every so often, to fill with a power, but require it be a power Related to those choosen to begin with.
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Obi-Wan21
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 8:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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I feel that isn't necessary. The players will have to learn their abilities, they're just waking with them. Level based would complicate things to an even greater degree. They may get rewards for PVP and such, but no other power choosing. There are few that relate anyhow.
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 9:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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LightWarden posted:
Imperial_Hammer posted:
Until I see a mathematical style game succeed, myself as a Game Designer will always be wary of overly numerizing games...
It's not nearly as dangerous as you're making it out to be.
He isn't saying it's dangerous - he's saying that the focus should be on writing and gameplay, and I agree with Imp.
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Obi-Wan21
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/3/06 10:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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I have to agree. It's one of my worries with a system like this aswell. But, like with my Hero RPG, the setup is only in the beginning. I'll in no way be putting in a level system, or furthering that. I don't care what the opinion is. That would slow down the game, and would hinder it.
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Pheonix_Rising
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
12/4/06 11:21am
Subject:
RE: The Game Masters Guild
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Penguinator-176 posted:
LightWarden posted:
Imperial_Hammer posted:
Until I see a mathematical style game succeed, myself as a Game Designer will always be wary of overly numerizing games...
It's not nearly as dangerous as you're making it out to be.
He isn't saying it's dangerous - he's saying that the focus should be on writing and gameplay, and I agree with Imp.
It's still focused on the writing people. It's not liek when someone get's into a fight we're going to pull out a calculator and tell the player to add up the damage they take. We're talking about a way to make it so that people can level up certain abilities by gaining points, we aren't going to have people turning into D&D junkies(although that wouldn't be so bad).
These are casual roleplaying boards, not hardcore...If we use either system we could lose lots of players. People don't want to come and have to do anything with their characters besides play them, but the point is the points system will likely have a better output than the other system, even if it is more complicated(about as complicated as a water molecule).
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