| Author |
Topic:
The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/24/07 9:57pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Hammurabi posted:
If you really do, I might join, even though I don't know the first thing about Cowboy Bebop.
Is it easy to figure out? Or, failing that, is there a good summary, or a Cowboy Bebop wiki or something?
Not to promote it or anything, but in so far, we do. Elu, Winged, DVC, Reynar, Nick, Lem, MoonlightsAngel, Zedd...and it's a pretty simple concept, as far as plot goes. The franchise, that is. I hope to get some nice arcs in my game...
They're all great. So I'm forced to up my game. Even though one of them has yet to post.
And to take an example from the game, and relate to DVC's point, we have characters that can't be taken seriously, so any interaction with them is going to lighten the mood. We have a bunch of serious bounty hunters that get into arguments with one another, so it's good to have characters that cheer you up with humour.
As per tag-teams of comedy, It's great when you get other posters on the same wavelength as you. When you can set something up, comedic or otherwise, in one post for another to take care of in the next, then your game is golden. Sword_of_Raditz is great at that - in his Last Exile game, he's picked up on things that I thought would work well, and used them. They're not big, but they just add to the overall experience.
Another good thing to have in games is a decent plot. Not the opening post, mind you, but the game's story that you play through. A well-planned story is what gets players hooked, but it shouldn't be so thought-out that you have no freedom.
-----signature-----
"Good god, Peng's a mentat!" ~darthramza
GDG
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blubeast1237
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
6/25/07 5:04pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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*Sits in his cage*
Fun games come from fun GMs.
Without that key element, the game will not be fun and last.
I say give me fun or give me death!
Beast
-----signature-----
-Jack of All Trades, Master of One-
Jedi Knight of the NJT
The 1237, A Communist
I seek the reaper, wanting the world.
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 1:44pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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But it's not that easy! Fun games come from fun GMs, yes, but what makes them fun GMs?
-----signature-----
"Good god, Peng's a mentat!" ~darthramza
GDG
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Zedd-Vega
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 2:38pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Fun...? Ner...? Ness?
Funnerness. It's next to the flour and the raisins.
-----signature-----
"All your base are belong to us..." Cats I'm 97% high fructose corn syrup! "Boba Fett? Boba Fett?! Where?!" Han Solo: RotJ The One and Only Darth Mandalore  Sev in Ghost Ship Executor
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blubeast1237
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 6:15pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Fun GMs enjoy the time spent writing the Updates and love to see how the RPers twist and turn and enjoy their RPing.
They love coming up with ideas then letting them go in the Role Playing forums and managing the players.
In short, they enjoy almost every part of the GMing process therefore they can give it to the players and the players give it back in their RPing.
Its a circle.
The way Imp runs games, almost like a science or art, is how he enjoys it. Therefore it is easy for him to create fun games because he enjoys how he runs them and so do his players.
LS_A runs games alost as if its like moving through water. Its naturally fun to him, so of course his games are popular.
I see a relation, guys.
Beast
-----signature-----
-Jack of All Trades, Master of One-
Jedi Knight of the NJT
The 1237, A Communist
I seek the reaper, wanting the world.
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Saintheart
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 6:36pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Indeed: who is the greater, the creator of an aggressive form (See: Hammer) or the master of the classic form (See: LS_A)? 
"Be like water, my friend."
-----signature-----
Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife.
Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007
Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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Zedd-Vega
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 6:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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I vote for LS_A of course. Inventor of BoP and IBoP as well as Mod for the roleplaying forums for a time.
-----signature-----
"All your base are belong to us..." Cats I'm 97% high fructose corn syrup! "Boba Fett? Boba Fett?! Where?!" Han Solo: RotJ The One and Only Darth Mandalore Sev in Ghost Ship Executor
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 7:53pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Saintheart posted:
"Be like water, my friend."
You just quoted one of my heroes (who in turn was quoting one of his heroes), thus summing up my outlook on life.
I give you a cookie.
On-topic: no disrespect to Imp (he's a great guy, and his games are always fun), but the way he creates his hits just doesn't sit well with me. I can't make games the way Imp does, nor can I see them the same way he did.
He once told me (and I'm paraphrasing this from memory), the RPF is like an economy, and the RPGs are like a commodity. The gist of this was that RPGs should be created to meet supply and demand - makes sense, but I can't make games that way. It's too impersonal a way to make a game work. I love the organic quality of games; how they're shaped and how they evolve.
So is it a matter of supply and demand? Or is it something else.
Note: in no way, shape, or form does my poor paraphrasing of Imperial_Hammer reflect his own views. This is merely what I got out of our discussion. If you want his thoughts, go talk to him, not me!
-----signature-----
"Good god, Peng's a mentat!" ~darthramza
GDG
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LightWarden
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 7:55pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Nice use of an Episode III novelization quote.
This might just be me, but I'm not really a big fan of these awards and accolades and all sorts of nonsense that we toss around.
Award-winning? Cult hit? Genius? Revolutionary? Mammoth? Wildly successful? Big talk for such little things. It feels like we're letting ourselves be content and saying "this, this is good. This is the best we can be." And they may just be games, but it seems to ring so hollow. I read through these games and think "this is it?" Maybe I'm just weird, but I usually feel as though I've seen better. Far more human characters, more enjoyable plotlines, less pontificating and preaching about how so-and-so has the one true faction of justice. It's just a game, but I think wouldn't bother me quite so much if people weren't so incessant about describing their games with superlatives.
And another equally bizarre thing I've noticed is that the people who laugh of the label of "Mary Sue" the most are the ones who usually have it applied the most to their characters.
Talk about "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
-----signature-----
CDG Guild Master
Strange how one small thing can determine the fate of so many... especially if it's a twenty-sided die
The Internet is SERIOUS BIZNESS!
It's all fun and games until someone loses a leg.
TF.N RPGs: Less fun than pretending to have sex
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Saintheart
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 8:50pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
- Date Edited:
6/26/07 8:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Saintheart
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Let me also say that not for a moment do I suggest that Hammer's games are any less than great fun! And full points to him for creating -- especially on the Podracer series -- a gaming format that deals pretty well with the logistics of actually roleplaying a podrace and gives a workable system for people winning or losing it.
'Warden, just to go off on a bit of a tangent, I actually think the ailments you identify are player issues rather than game fun-ness or game master issues as such. I think there's only so far as a GM you can push someone who just isn't interested in using their imagination in-game. Does the GM have the right, on receiving a character sheet, to say to the person "No, I don't think this is a very well-thought-out character, I'm not allowing that one in?" For my own personal rules of GMing I don't think so -- at least not expressed that way.
What GMs may like to do to try and make their games more fun is to engage more actively with the player during the character approval process. Let's face it, the main reason we have that 'rule' in RPGs is to keep out godmoded characters. Maybe as GMs part of the process of making games fun is to work with a player actively on creating goals or a life-path for their character, rather than just vetoing the old "My midichlorian count exceeds 9,000" style of character.
In short: RPGs are fun where both the players and the GM are active in their support for the game.
EDIT: *enjoys his cookie*
-----signature-----
Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife.
Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007
Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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Winged_Jedi
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 9:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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LightWarden, on the issue of accolades and awards...yeah, they are rather grandiose considering what we actually do here. But that's only natural. We like to think that what we do matters in some way. There are those who sometimes take it too seriously (my hand's in the air, I've been very guilty of this before) but that can happen when people are devoting a lot of time and effort to their RPing. Fun is always the most important thing, but for some people part of the fun is the accolades and the superlatives. I don't see the harm in that. Buy into it if you want to, ignore it if you don't.
I don't think we're letting ourselves be content though. Most players and GMs I know are constantly trying to improve. This is what all the Guilds were founded for in the first place.
Penguinator-176 posted:
You just quoted one of my heroes (who in turn was quoting one of his heroes), thus summing up my outlook on life.
Spike quoting Bruce Lee, right? I just reached that episode. Awesome.
-----signature-----
"The Wire"- the smartest show ever made.
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Imperial_Hammer
Title: Manager:
• SWRPF
• NSWRPF
• RPR
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 10:19pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
- Date Edited:
6/26/07 11:37pm (5 edits total)
Edited By:
Imperial_Hammer
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Haha... I'm honored by your compliments, both Peng and Saint...
One day I'll write up my economic theory in full...
Heres the bottom line, directly tying into the Society's purpose...
In my opinion, before any discussion of fun can be had, a game needs to have players...
You can design the most awesome game in the world, but if no one plays it, it'll wind up same as an ill-constructed game..... namely locked....
I've seen it too many times. Excited GMs running a game they positively LOVE, and it gets torpedoed after launch. The game just couldn't cut it in the market.
Don't get me wrong, fun is good. But in the end, it has to be subordinate to success. Sometimes vision needs to be sacrificed to get a game that works.
You need to get the ship out of port before you can contemplate running it in a enjoyable nature...
And I think alot of times, fun-advocates forget this. They value fun over workability, and end up with games that flop. Not only is this decidedly not fun, it becomes negatively fun as people get discouraged and unhappy.
And thats what I sorta think. Of course a game needs to be fun. Of course a GM needs to enjoy GMing. But, a proper perspective needs to be maintained IMO.
-I_H
-----signature-----
Guildmaster of the GDG
*Now looking for a new RPF Adoptee*
The Jedi Way is something found within, not in the dead walls of any Order
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
- Date Edited:
6/26/07 10:21pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Hammurabi
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Of course. If a game doesn't get past page two, it's failed to create very much fun.
Then again, failure is a crucial part of the creative process.
-----signature-----
and i know no one can sing the blues like blind willie mctell
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Penguinator-176
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 10:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Winged_Jedi posted:
Spike quoting Bruce Lee, right? I just reached that episode. Awesome.
Probably my favourite episode, too. Awesome show.
If a game isn't making it past page one (that's happened to me, really), then there's a severe problem. If by page two you have solid, steady posts coming in, then I think you're set.
As per RPG philosophies, I only have one, and that's make sure you have fun running the game. If you're not, then the game will die, most likely. And if you happen to have players that are steady and enjoy the game, you'll let them down and sully your reputation.
I suppose I could extrapolate another idea out of that and say that a successful game is a combination of demand, reputation, and game quality.
-----signature-----
"Good god, Peng's a mentat!" ~darthramza
GDG
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Saintheart
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
6/26/07 11:12pm
Subject:
RE: The Society of Free-Range Gaming
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Is this debate really about "fun" versus "processed", or are we really driving at "prepared" versus "spontaneous" RPGs?
Because you are asking for trouble, and a high non-fun-ness factor, if you don't at least put some thought into how your RPG is going to work -- both from startup and as the game progresses on. I reckon you have to think seriously about how you're going to get the RPG up and running, and think how you're going to keep it running after that. Advertising is part of the preparation process, I would've thought...
You don't ensure a high degree of success by just coming up with a concept and thumping it onto the boards, I think. Not anymore, anyway...you have to give it some proper thought. It's important not to confuse solid preparation of the RPG with it somehow not being 'fun'.
-----signature-----
Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife.
Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007
Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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