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Topic:
The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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SephyCloneNo15
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
3/20 11:03pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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No one's slapping together anything aimlessly, Light. Lots of thought is going into everything, and we need to know how things will fit together before we can decide whether we're going to be out to conquer other worlds/genre-locales or Cold Warring it or uniting on some grand quest or whathaveyou.
That's another beauty of the Multi-worlds: Modularity. If a genre flops, it's easy enough to close off the portals and either try again with a new world or keep going with the other worlds. And, if things start to go really south (no offense to anyone living anywhere that could be described as 'south' of any particular location), each world would, theoretically, be a modular unit, able to sail as its own game should the Nexus and everything else fall. Hopefully we'd never have to use the modularity, but it'd be comforting to know it was there.
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CmdrMitthrawnuruodo
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
3/20 11:18pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Question: Does the flagship RPG really have to have multiple threads? From what I remember none of the flagship RPGs started out as multiple threads. They all started out as one thread and then as it got too large for that single thread to handle, they expanded into more.
Have you all tried to ask what the community wants in a game? Before you start thinking about a plot, a background or what genres to include, perhaps you should ask what the users want to do?
Do they want action and adventure? Do they want romance? Comedy? Space-combat? Ground combat? Scientific thinking (ala Star Trek)? I suggest putting up a poll asking that first then you can figure out whether to do a multiverse, single verse, and so on. Because if no one wants to do 2/3rds of these genres you choose, you got a flopped game.
Go ask I_H or Saint to start a poll in NSWRPF and announce it in the RPF. Once you know what the people want, then you can start building a game rather than just discuss it among a select few.
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"Dyin' be the day worth livin' for!" --Captain Hector Barbossa PotC: Amuletum Angiti http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3635826/1/ http://s12.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=48046
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
3/21 3:30am
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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SephyCloneNo15 posted:
The Nation-state is a relatively new invention, and largely a product of non-mercantile economies and the Nuclear age. It's only very recently (roughly 300 years) that we came up with ways to get rich without conquering new lands, and it's only within the last hundred or so years that trying to conquer new lands for money got to be too suicidal to be worth it. Prior to that, the only reason not to expand was that your nation wasn't done exploiting its own resources or that you lost your colonies in a poorly fought war. I'm not saying every colony was happy to stay colonized. Keeping people conquered is never easy. If colonies never revolted, I'd be a happy citizen of the "Queen's Happy and Healthy Colonies in the New World" instead of the "United States of America".
You're still ignoring my broader point - even though some powers rise above others, it is very rare for any single power to completely dominate.
SephyCloneNo15 posted:
Unfortunately, you're also the first to make the One World concept seem ridiculously cramped. You've essentially given us a continent (two if you count the possibility of Atlantis) and a few islands for the entire game, with the knowledge that the rest of the planet exists after a certain fashion. It's easy to imagine the Steampunkers players all being neighbors in cramped London tenements while the fantasiers have turned Greenland into a big feudal village where news travels by hearsay from one end of the island to the other in a matter of hours. Only the American section seems to have empty space, given its frontier nature, and that excludes their cities which are probably just as cramped as London's, but given the splits, probably just with NPCs with one piece of information per person ("The cave to the North is blocked by a thick sheet of ice. Use the FIRE ROD.")
That's why my vote is still for multi-worlds, because nothing will give the illusion of space like having your entire cosmos to yourself. ("Never compromise. Even in the face of Armageddon."~Rorschach)
Well, the seeds of expansion are in there. As I said, some within England are keen on expanding into the continent, and of course, that opens up all of Eurasia if we so desire. And the Icelandic faction is also still expanding. I didn't mention this, but I kinda see the Americans and the magic-faction expanding into Canada and potentially coming into conflict. If we wanted to add to that, we could easily throw in a remaining British colonial presence.
But I personally am almost in favor of limiting the early game to England. I prefer a tight game to a loose, broad game - as LightWarden said, too much space is often worse than too little space. Honestly, Great Britain is more than big enough to sustain a decent RP. London alone could probably do it. Throw in some cramped tenements, an industrial sector, a government sector, and a wealthy district. Want to expand outside London? Add another industrial town (Liverpool or something), a frontiers-y town, and a Gothic castle. Maybe add a Steampunk floating city. At that point, I think we've maybe even got too much space for a starting game.
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Kalio_Dynkos
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/21 10:26am
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
3/21 10:36am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Kalio_Dynkos
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CmdrMitthrawnuruodo posted:
Question: Does the flagship RPG really have to have multiple threads? From what I remember none of the flagship RPGs started out as multiple threads. They all started out as one thread and then as it got too large for that single thread to handle, they expanded into more.
Have you all tried to ask what the community wants in a game? Before you start thinking about a plot, a background or what genres to include, perhaps you should ask what the users want to do?
Do they want action and adventure? Do they want romance? Comedy? Space-combat? Ground combat? Scientific thinking (ala Star Trek)? I suggest putting up a poll asking that first then you can figure out whether to do a multiverse, single verse, and so on. Because if no one wants to do 2/3rds of these genres you choose, you got a flopped game.
Go ask I_H or Saint to start a poll in NSWRPF and announce it in the RPF. Once you know what the people want, then you can start building a game rather than just discuss it among a select few.
That's been the intention. Some people just haven't agreed with that up to now.
EDIT: And I_H received a PM outlining poll over a week ago. We're waiting on conversation here. Don't ask my why. 
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
3/21 7:30pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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The Poll
Well, I've been pushing for a poll for at least a few days now. My only remaining suggestion would be to add a 'I don't plan to participate in the NSWRP Flagship anyway'.
And I would actually agree with Mitthy's statement that the flagship should probably not start with separate threads. I don't know if any single RP has ever done a multi-thread start before, and besides, we can always split it later.
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Saintheart
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
3/21 7:57pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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As for why Hammer's not approved it, as I understand he's in the midst of finals. I imagine he'll get back to it as quick as he can. 
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SephyCloneNo15
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
3/21 9:02pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Of course we'd start in one thread. It's just we're planning to build up to the scope of a multi-thread game.
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Member: GDG, GMG. Sub-GM: CDG
Zam Wessel Lives!
Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Squib Creations Limited-Edition Replica Glove of Darth Vader™
"Samuel L. Jackson isn't only a fine actor, but a gamer. He's one of us." ~ Kotaku
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CmdrMitthrawnuruodo
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
3/21 9:44pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Honestly you shouldnt be at the planning stage yet until you've heard from the community on what they want. Because what they could want could be the exact opposite of all that you have planned for already and so you ended up wasting your time for nothing.
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"Dyin' be the day worth livin' for!" --Captain Hector Barbossa PotC: Amuletum Angiti http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3635826/1/ http://s12.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=48046
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Imperial_Hammer
Title: Manager:
• SWRPF
• NSWRPF
• RPR
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
3/21 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Hey alls...
So yah, I've just finished finals week, and this weekend I am busy w/ Easter Festivities...
Right now all I have time for is holding down the fort keeping order...
However, come Sunday night, I'll be back here.
We'll talk polls, and I'll get the awards up...
So hang tight til then.
-I_H
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Guildmaster of the GDG RPF Adopter of Sentinel001  NaboosPrincess The Jedi Way is something found within, not in the dead walls of any Order
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/22 12:44pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Sounds good.
And since my time travel idea is getting some negative response, I'm going with the alternative universe/Nexus idea.
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
3/23 1:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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I think the response to the time travel idea may have been a bit harsh - it's a great idea, and if done well, could work out awesome. I actually kinda resent the general opposition to time travel - some people went as far as to say it never works out and always sucks. That's just not true. If you feel that way, go read Slaughterhouse Five. Anyways, I like the time travel idea, but I think it's too risky to implement it in the Flagship. It'd be highly innovative, and if things didn't turn went wrong, the time travel could completely undermine our efforts.
And I understand Mitthy's point that the community is important. Hell, community is practically the point of this whole project. That's why I've been pushing for a poll since the early stages of this project. However, I don't think we should suspend discussion until we get a poll up, and when the poll does go up, I don't think we should necessarily take the community's word as law. Their perspective is important, but it's not the defining factor; in fact, I wouldn't necessarily say it's even the most important factor. It'd help to know how they feel, but I don't see it being a game-breaking factor for us.
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SephyCloneNo15
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
3/23 5:53pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Agreed, Ham. I'd go so far as to say I don't think we really need to get the community's opinion on every minute decision either. If we start asking the community on everything, where can we surprise them? If we let them select our initial worlds from a list we provide, we maintain control over the game. If we maintain control, we can keep it moving in the right direction (which, ideally, would coincide with the fun direction for the game). We give away too much off the bat, we don't have much to offer in reserve.
Also, it feels odd to make a post without posting about how much better Multi-worlds would be than single-world, so "MULTI-WORLDS IS BETTER THAN SINGLE WORLD!"
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Zam Wessel Lives!
Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Squib Creations Limited-Edition Replica Glove of Darth Vader™
"Samuel L. Jackson isn't only a fine actor, but a gamer. He's one of us." ~ Kotaku
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CmdrMitthrawnuruodo
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
3/23 6:41pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
3/23 6:46pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
CmdrMitthrawnuruodo
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I wouldn't necessarily say it's even the most important factor. It'd help to know how they feel, but I don't see it being a game-breaking factor for us.
Actually it is the most important factor. They will be the ones playing the game. If they don't like the genres and franchises you chose, then they wont play the game. The players will be the core of this game. The designers have to revolve around them and their preferences, not the designers preferences. If this was just some random game that was being designed in the GDG then it wouldn't matter what the players thought. The game would either be a hit or a flop depending on the interests of the players looking at it. But this is the flagship game that is suppose to draw in and accommodate as many players as possible without pushing them away. You cannot accomplish that if you leave the development of this game in the hands of a select few.
I'm not saying that a poll should be made for every decision or option made. I am just saying that a poll needs to be made to get the opinions of the players first before you start designing the game. You may find out that they don't want or are not interested in a multi-verse. Then what are you going to do with all this stuff you came up with for a multi-verse? It just sits there collecting dust.
It's like writing a persuasive essay. You have to do research on the topic you are writing about before you can convince the audience to be persuaded to your point of view. In this case you will want to convince the audience to play your game and the best way to persuade them is by appealing to their desires, their interests, their emotions and self-importance and hyping up the idea. Get them excited. Make them feel a part of the discussion even if they do not directly participate in the discussion. You can still keep parts of the game a secret to make it worthwhile when it is finally released.
We give away too much off the bat, we don't have much to offer in reserve.
As long as this is being discussed in public, anyone who is interested in this game will know what to expect by reading this thread. So really keeping secrecy is a moot argument here.
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"Dyin' be the day worth livin' for!" --Captain Hector Barbossa PotC: Amuletum Angiti http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3635826/1/ http://s12.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=48046
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
3/23 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Well, I think community input matters more on some issues than others. I think it's critical that we pick a genre (or genres) that people are interested in. I don't think it matters so much for the single vs multi debate - so far, our debate has mainly focused on the issue in terms of game mechanics, and IMO, it's the engineers who are responsible for the mechanics. Though maybe it would also be good to set up a poll regarding this issue. I don't know, I imagine the options would be something like this:
It doesn't matter, I'm not interested either way
I'm strongly in favor of single - if it's multi, count me out
I'm in favor of single - I'd be far less interested in multi
I'm slightly in favor of single, but it's no big deal either way
I'd be fine with either
I'm slightly in favor of multi, but it's no big deal either way
I'm in favor of multi - I'd be far less interested in single
I'm strongly in favor of multi - if it's single, count me out
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Ktala
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/24 8:35am
Subject:
RE: The Think-Tank: NSWRPF Flagship Planning and Discussion Thread
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Hmmm...Im going to say something...just for the sake of saying it..
You guys ARE SO STRESSING out over the multi-world vs one world senarios and such..and working about MAKING a flag ship....
When Bop and IBoP came into being..i dont think that LSA was really TRYING to make a FLAGSHIP...
He simply was making a game that he thought would be enjoyable to many people, and he had his own ideas on the subject.
Then again, when he TRIED to make a Flagship RPG, it failed..
Maybe you should focus on the actual game, and no so much on what how you build the sucker. If it is a GOOD game, and folks are interested, it will become a Flagship worthy game.
You can sit there, and argue what worlds senarios work best, till ya all turn green, but if nobody gets off their collictive butts and actually put forth a game idea, talk is only that...talk.
Just work on trying to make a GOOD game..and if it is, well..like the folks say...
If you build it..they WILL come!
**goes back to plotting...**
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