Author Topic: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
Hammur- 
Registered: Jun '07
44291_Han Solo
Date Posted: 4/27 10:39pm Subject: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
"Many people feel that in the contemplation of nature and in communication with other living things, they become aware of some kind of force, or something, behind this apparent mask which we see in front of us, and they call it God." - Roman Kroitor



When looking across the various threads in the SWRPF, one obvious similarity unites them all: all occur within the Star Wars galaxy, as defined in two trilogies and innumerable other works of fiction. This galaxy remains fairly constant across the RPF; nearly every thread presents the same vision of the galaxy, even if they're set at different time periods. Though we've all come to accept the constancy of the GFFA, it occurs to me that there's a great deal of deviation - not just in the EU, but between the films themselves. In fact, I would argue that the GFFA we all know and love is radically and fundamentally different from the world George Lucas created in 1977.

Every successive installment has been forced to up the ante, to surpass its predecessor if not in storytelling than at least in sheer spectacle. For example, let's examine how the Force has evolved. In 1977, the Force was primarily a matter of perception. It allows its user to see without eyes, to hear the unspoken, and to put words in the mouths of others. It is an empathic bond between beings. The Force unites all life, and it grants its user the ability to take life. ESB added telekinesis to the mix; from Luke pulling his lightsaber a few feet to Yoda lifting the X-Wing from the swamps of Dagobah to Darth Vader using his surroundings as weaponry. In ROTJ, we see Palpatine channelling the Force into raw energy. By the time we get to the prequels, limitations have been thrown out the window. The Force enables Jedi to employ acrobatics as a combat technique, hurl and deflect Dragonball Z-esque balls of raw energy, and destroy everything around them in their battles. By the time the story has run its course, the Force hardly resembles the Force from 1977. What once was an spiritual empathic bond has evolved into a psychokinetic energy.

The storyline has also been dramatically affected. The world of the EU is predominately an orderly one: it generally heroicizes either the Old Republic or the New Republic, both centralized governments. The world may not be stable, but in general, the good guys are winning the battle against chaos. The original universe seemed nearly the opposite: the good guys are forces of chaos, facing an Empire that struggles to hold the world together. The galaxy isn't stable, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. This is a universe filled with smugglers and dreamers and ronin and rebels and lost droids. The so-called 'fastest ship in the galaxy' is a hunk of junk, but Han Solo's mostly full of it (in the EU, of course, the Millenium Falcon actually is the fastest ship in the galaxy. rolling_eyes ) And the Empire's vehicle of order - their horrible sphere of destruction - fails completely due to a seemingly random anomaly.

The EU also supposes that in the future, the world will return to the Jedi. The impression I get from ANH is entirely different. In this world, the blaster (which entered common use during the Clone Wars) has outmoded the Jedi. In ANH, Luke's lightsaber is a relic, one which can potentially stand toe-to-toe with a blaster given extensive training. Hell, the lightsaber is far and above the superior weapon given training. However, the blaster is cheap and easy to use, which means that even if one Jedi can take down one hundred troopers, it doesn't matter, because for every Jedi, the Empire can effectively deploy ten thousand troopers. In this light, the Jedi aren't scheduled to make a comeback - ever. The Clone Wars were the end. Vader and Obi-Wan are anomalies; the only two traditional Jedi left in the galaxy. That doesn't mean the Force is gone forever; merely, I imagine it will manifest itself in new and wonderful ways.

I'm setting up a game idea here, my friends. Let's negate every single element of the Star Wars universe besides those present in the original film. Now, to force the galaxy on a different track, let's reimagine the Battle of Yavin. It's not a big change ( wink ), just the addition of four more names to the list of casualties: Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Chewbacca, and Darth Vader. The Empire has failed to exert its authority over the Outer Rim; its power is decidedly limited. Of course, most of the would-be influential figures in the galaxy have died, leaving this battle of order versus chaos wide open.

So there you have it: a Star Wars universe that is in fact radically different from the one we use in damn near every RP on the boards. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I find the original vision sufficiently compelling to warrant its own RP. Enough so that I intend to make one, given some input to refine these ideas. And maybe the help of a co-GM, if anyone's interested. I'm not sure I can run this on my own. But at this stage, I'm mostly looking for thoughts and first impressions. Is this universe worth exploring? Is the specific game idea compelling enough? How should I focus this particular idea? And of course, any other comments are more than welcome.

 

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Imperial_Hammer 
Title: Manager:
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Registered: Sep '04
23955_Imperial Tool
Date Posted: 4/27 10:51pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 4/27 10:54pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Imperial_Hammer
It seems like a fine idea indeed...

I've always been interested in the Empire without Vader and Palpatine...

To me, the relationships (real or contrived) between Tarkin, Piett, Veers, Motti, and Tagge (plus or minus Ozzel, Needa, Jerjerrod, Pellaeon, Isard, Daala, Thrawn etc.) are absolutely fertile grounds of creative writing. In fact, I spent my first summer on the RPFs RPing those five (plus Isard at the end) in GAW...

Was one of the most enjoyable set of characters I've written for (next to perhaps TBT)

I think having the Imperial Officers as a set of "Good Ol' Boys," probably close knit (the Academy) working for the common (Imperial wink ) good, is an amazing alternate universe SW galaxy idea. happy

-I_H

 

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Ktala 
Registered: Sep '02
6289_A-Wing
Date Posted: 4/27 11:19pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
grin

LOVIN' the concept!!!!

YES!

 

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Saintheart 
Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF
Registered: Dec '00
14385_Drizzt<br>by RA Salvatore  (A&A)
Date Posted: 4/27 11:56pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
Very interesting. One thing: in this mix, with that slight change, you still have the Emperor floating around, because he does rate a mention by Moff Tarkin:

"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the Council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

Now, the interesting thing about it is that it looks like the concept of the Emperor changed over the course of the three films. Taking ourselves outside the text purely for context's sake, Alan Dean Foster's ghostwritten novelisation of ANH suggests that the Emperor was in fact largely controlled by his advisors and toadies.

As an aside, the rest of the OT changes his role significantly. I don't take the "George Lucas is a master pokerfaced storyteller who likes to keep significant elements of his master story in shadow until later" view; as an example, the revelation of Luke and Leia as brother and sister causes several scenes in ESB and ANH to play out significantly creepier in the light of that fact. More likely George was just looking for something as showstoppin' as the (mindblowing for the time) revelation that Vader was Luke's father.

So. If you confine yourself solely to the text of ANH, with no Yoda, and no suggestion the Emperor is a Force user and that Vader was a free agent with no "Chick ain't gonna die on me" impetus to turn to the Dark Side, what are you left with?

* The Empire as templated from the Roman Empire from around the Caesar Augustus period -- though GrandAdmiralJello could, I suspect, go for ages on the subject. You've got an Emperor, regional governors, troop organisations (decribed by Palps himself as legions in ROTJ), and an Imperial Senate. Not to mention the aghast attitude of unnamed Imperial officials as to how the Emperor will "maintain control without the bureaucracy". But you have to cope with the Emperor, because sadly he's in there.

* As for approaching the Jedi Order, a good concept came up on a board where some folks were discussing creating a "virtual PT" to more accurately fit the vision from the OT. That concept suggested the idea that the Jedi Order was a really secret order, sort of on the same page as the Illuminati, or the Priory of Zion -- a truly secret organisation which preferred to safeguard peace and justice in the Old Republic by largely pulling strings behind the scenes. In this scenario the lightsaber is indeed the symbol of the Jedi, but only seen in rare circumstances. As to how the Jedi would continue in this post-ANH universe: "Now the Jedi are all but extinct", as we've seen with the EU, has so big a loophole in it you can drive an AT-AT through it. It's pretty easy to have the odd Jedi hiding out here or there. Maybe even looking to re-establish the order in a much different way.

 

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Winged_Jedi 
Registered: Feb '03
42019_Indiana Jones
Date Posted: 4/28 6:53am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
This is a fascinating idea, and well thought out. Nice work.

Now I wasn't around in 1977, but I always find it interesting to hear the perspective of people who were- and particularly how assumptions they made based on ANH were contradicted by the later films.

For example, IIRC, nothing in ANH suggests that only certain individuals were capable of using the Force. I've heard several fans say how they initially thought the Force was something anyone could use and tap into, with the correct training. Even Han could have been taught to use it if he had wanted to. It was a religious and spiritual choice- you became a Jedi on the power of your faith, not the power of your blood.

So that's another element to consider in your brave new old world. I've got to go now but I'm certainly going to think more about this intriguing concept.

Saintheart posted:
Vader was a free agent with no "Chick ain't gonna die on me" impetus to turn to the Dark Side


laugh

 

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SephyCloneNo15 
Registered: Apr '05
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 4/28 8:39am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
Love the concept. Got a meet and greet with a candidate to be one of our new Animation teachers, but I'll right something more interesting later.

 

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The_Loyal_Imperial 
Title: YAHTZEE and Blackjack Host
EUS Chancellor

Registered: Nov '07
19250_Seal of the Empire
Date Posted: 4/28 8:51am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
It's funny, as I was just discussing a concept such as this the other day. Not for a RPG, but simply where the rest of the EU would've gone without the PT. I definitely think it's an idea worth exploring, and would be most interested in seeing what path it would take.

 

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NickLitYouAFlame 
Registered: Feb '07
43764_Force Lightning
Date Posted: 4/28 3:38pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
So, lwhen can we schedule a time and place for you to have my baby? I mean that in a very manly way, obviously. But, seriously, I love this idea. And, I would love to contribute to turning it from concept to reality. As much as internet is reality, that is.

 

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Hammurabi 
Registered: Jan '07
44291_Han Solo
Date Posted: 5/1 6:09pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/1 6:39pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Hammurabi
All right, so the initial reviews pretty good. Remember everybody, as this project gets closer to completion (and due to my schedule, we probably won't be launching for at least two weeks, though I think I might like to spend a little time working out the details before I create something), I'm probably going to be looking for a co-GM.

Before I go on, I'd like to credit Saint and Winged for providing some great insight and handy advice. Pretty much every statement you guys made is true: Lucas editing the galaxy as he went, the Force being a universal (rather than limited ability), Vader being free agent with no "Chick ain't gonna die on me" impetus to turn to the Dark Side... Nearly too many good ideas and astute observations for me to individually affirm them all. But I can respond to some of the issues, such as The Emperor. You're right, he will be around (I hadn't thought of that - I intend to rewatch ANH this weekend), but he'll probably be fairly distant, just as he is in ANH. A sort of unseen presence whose influence is diminished by distance from the galaxy's interior. However, this one depends on the focus, which I'll discuss momentarily.

Another key issue I'm seeing is that of Force-users. As you may have realized from my opening quotation (which, according to Lucas, served as an inspiration for the Force), I feel like the Force should remain a key factor in our New Old Galaxy (the NOG, if you will), if in a different form than we're used to seeing it in. Saint's Jedi secret society idea is interesting, but I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. I feel like the Jedi Order is more or less gone forever, but I can imagine the stray Jedi left in the galaxy (and I imagine there are several still in hiding) might seek to reform the Jedi Order. However, if they based it off the old one, I imagine they would fail. So we've got two possible scenarios: Jedi try to reform the old-school order and fail, or Jedi create a redesigned order, which succeeds - to a point. I can definitely see a small, secretive organization of Jedi forming up, with hopes of one day recreating the Jedi Order in full.

I also imagine we'll see people tapping into the Force in new ways. The problem with old-school Jedi is they required years (decades, even) of training, but couldn't really hold up against blaster-wielding armies. So lightsabers are gone, but is it far-fetched to imagine elite, highly-disciplined combat units learning to wield the Force? It has useful applications, even for blaster combat. Enhanced senses, enhanced aim, limited precognitive ability, empathic ability... I also can imagine the Force used for espionage. In ANH, Obi-Wan uses the Force to alter others' perceptions, persuade others, and sneak around an Imperial battle station. This idea sort of lends itself to Saint's secret society type idea, in that of the surviving Jedi, most would be good at hiding out and evading the Empire.

Moving on though, we've yet to discuss this thing's focus. Hammer made me realize just how broad my scope still was by proposing an area I hadn't fully considered yet: the world of the Imperial Officers. It's a realm that sounds intriguing enough for me to want to include it, but I don't know how easy or hard it would be to wedge that together with the cast of rebels and outlaws I've been imagining. So far, I've been thinking on a universal scale; before I start designing an RP out of it, I've got to figure out what we'll be focusing on, or at least the range covered by our focus. Right now, I'm faced with the urge to explore as much of this universe as possible, opposite the realistic impulse to keep this small enough to be manageable. Right now, I'm not even sure where to start - I essentially see two ways to limit the scope: either by setting or by narrative.

So far I've been thinking more about limiting by setting - the idea of doing it by narrative just occurred to me, so I've yet to think of much. But if we did it by setting, I'm thinking (at least at the start) to limiting it to a single planet, maybe even to a single region on that planet. A town or city and the outlying area. Another option would be ship-based, where we've got ye merry olde crewe of yon Firefly-class vessel, who go on a picaresque little expedition around the galaxy. That would give us a small, manageable group of characters, and from there we divide the narrative up into episodes. Each episode might include appearances from one or two side characters, and maybe for those we'd call in a couple guest RPers. All this stuff I just came up with off the top of my head, and even if it wouldn't work for this RP, it's still an interesting method of running an RP, one I might be interested in.

Anyways, the other option (though my previous idea started exploring this already) would be to organize this by narrative. Come up with a basic story idea first (probably episodic in scope, with an episode ranging in length from the Firefly-esque length described above to an ANH-like length), and guide players along from there. I'm actually starting to like this whole episodic thing; a lot of RPs out here don't really have an end in site. If we did something episodic, we'd have resolution from time to time, while retaining the advantage to continue as long as we liked.

Anyways, a few more guiding questions: How broad should the scope be? How should we even go about determining the scope? How does the episodic idea sound?

 

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NickLitYouAFlame 
Registered: Feb '07
43764_Force Lightning
Date Posted: 5/1 8:54pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
First of all, I would like to say that I am quite interested in groups of Force-trained blaster-wielding troops. As was in the times of the old Jedi Order, the lightsaber clearly identifies a man on the field of battle as a Force-user, because rarely do you see a non-Force character wielding a lightsaber.

By removing the lightsaber, the Jedi could remain inconspicuous from enemy targeting. One powerful in the Force would be able to wreak much havoc, before being found for who he was. If you throw in the opposing side, with Force-users of its own, the feel of Star Wars battles is warped entirely.


On to your questions:

How broad should the scope be?

It’s commonly agreed upon that the larger the scope, the harder it is to control. But, while easier to control, a smaller game isn’t doesn’t seem as appealing as a community based RPG. This question is always a predicament I find myself in, which is to say: How big can I make the game, without losing a handle on it?

I can’t actually answer this question, because I am still fighting for the answer myself. But, I think that if you can find it, the middle of the spectrum would be a good place for a game of this significance.


The second question is sort-of answered in my first. So, on to the final question:

How does the episodic idea sound?

I feel this relates back, to the focus, a bit. The episode-type style, if properly exercised, might help you keep track of the game better. As well, it would make the game seem more like the movies, which is a wonderful prospect for me.

As you can see, most of what I said revolves around ifs and maybes. It’s essentially my opinion, which while is what you asked for, means little.

 

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SephyCloneNo15 
Registered: Apr '05
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 5/2 11:21am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
I rather like the crew of a pirate/Rebel ship idea. Could work, would be a good way to get a wide variety of characters together in the same game. It works well for an episodic structure too, jumping from adventure to adventure. The trouble, though, with limiting the scope by setting is that we may not get a big enough opportunity to see what's different between this and the SW we know and love and any other generic Science Fiction.

 

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spacelady 
Registered: Mar '03
24174_Padme
Date Posted: 5/2 2:36pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/2 2:37pm (1 edits total) Edited By: spacelady
Edit: *doh!* This is Elu in Spacey's account. This is the second time in two days I've forgotten she was signed in and not me! Gah! plain tongue

I quite like this idea and I do like the idea of 'episodes,' though it would have to be pulled off just right.

I must also say I like the idea of Force-Based troops, because of two reasons we have to admit: 1) It's a neat and cool idea. 2) Emperor Palpatine is still in power and he loves his Force-User cronies. Look at the multiple groups under his command.

The Dark Inquisitors(something like that I believe), the Emperor's Hand, his Sith Apprentice, Prophets of the Dark Side (I believe they were under him for a time), The whole Tion Hegemony were quietly manipulated by him. Plus others.

I wouldn't mind them being taken out for a game like this, in fact, they should be. However, the Emperor without his Dark Side cronies is not the Emperor at all. So that's points to the Forcetroopers. Snowtroopers, Sandtroopers, Spacetroopers, Stormtroopers, why not Forcetroopers?

In any case, Palps will want something else with Force Affiliation on his side and I believe that issue must be faced.

 

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Penguinator-176 
Registered: May '05
40015_Kaleesh General
Date Posted: 5/3 11:59pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Jedi were knights in ANH. The PT and EU have kind of forced upon us this monastic image of the Jedi. I honestly can't remember an instance in the OT where they were called an "order".

True, the Templars and Hospitallers were monastic knights, but that concept was so radical when it originated that it shook European nations to their very core. I agree that the Force shouldn't be genetic, and that it's more for those who seek it out. I'd also like to see an end to the whole "Master and Padawan" thing. It's a dumb way of saying mentor and learner.

In fact, now that I think about it, the Jedi Order of the PT isn't as noble as that in the OT. They were always pulling out the lightsabers, mind-tricking people, and being uptight and snobbish while claiming to be non-partisan peacekeepers. I think that we could toss out that rubbish and keep them as a semi-spiritual order, semi-secret, devoted to defending the people.

Honestly, it's far more effective if your negotiator doesn't look like a mighty Jedi Knight and doesn't go around advertised as such. Get rid of the robes, too. If all Jedi wore such robes, why would Ben Kenobi keep 'em when he was trying to stay hidden?

 

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Hammurabi 
Registered: Jan '07
44291_Han Solo
Date Posted: 5/4 9:00am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/4 9:02am (2 edits total) Edited By: Hammurabi
An astute observation, Peng. You're right, we have all been assuming a sort of 'Jedi Order' which, on second thought, shouldn't really exist in the universe we're trying to create. I really like your description of the Jedi as "a semi-spiritual order, semi-secret, devoted to defending the people". Because I just looked into a few things (I wouldn't go so far as to call it research), and I'm starting to develop a concept of what our New Old Jedi will look like.

First of all, I think it's fair to say our Jedi won't be based off the Templars or Hospitaliers. However, as you implied, there is a heavy spirituality to the Jedi. Yeah, plenty of the monk-like characteristics are taken from the PT and the EU, but there's also a few which take their cue from Ben Kenobi's behavior in ANH. Of course, old Ben doesn't seem to resemble any Western monastic knight; rather, he seems to take his cue from the yamabushi, a group of mostly solitary ascetics famous for "supernatural powers and mighty warriors". They were practitioners of Shugendo, an animistic religion whose name translates to "the path of training and testing". During the Meiji restoration, superstition forced the yamabushi into hiding.

Mostly this is all just delving into the mythologies from which Lucas created Star Wars. At a certain point, one starts to wonder if the parallels are imaginary or real. Could Yoda be a representation of Sojobo? Is Ben Kenobi partially inspired by Benkei? There are parallels (such as the name), but it doesn't all fit together perfectly. Then again, how about this picture of a yamabushi, naginata gleaming like a lightsaber:


I'd like to tackle the various mythologies Lucas draws from. I've already begun exploring the eastern influence, but that is only a small part of Star Wars. There are also some very strong Western elements - Han Solo, everyone's favorite space cowboy, stands out in my mind. Of course, Lucas wasn't the first to mix East and West; Kurosawa was famous for it, and Lucas clearly draws a lot from Kurosawa. Then there's also the Imperial side of things, which we haven't even begun to explore in detail. There's a lot of galaxy in A New Hope alone, and I hope to get at that with this project.

Anyways, expect another post later today or tomorrow regarding how I intend to organize this thing. I've got some new ideas, which could work out very well.

 

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SephyCloneNo15 
Registered: Apr '05
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 5/4 5:47pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
I don't know how exactly it would work, but could we try to incorporate a little bit more of the Imperial Roman side of the Empire? Everyone sees the Nazi parallels and, frankly, extrapolating only what we see in ANH, we'd get probably just an even more Nazi-esque Empire, but I think it might be fun to try and push the Roman side of things, if only for a little change of pace.

 

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Imperial_Hammer 
Title: Manager:
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Registered: Sep '04
23955_Imperial Tool
Date Posted: 5/4 6:45pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
You know, I've never seen Nazi parallels in ANH. I've always thought of the Empire equating to Imperial British (a la Revolutionary War).

Steampunk = Make the Empire Prussia. happy

-I_H

 

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