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Author	Topic: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
NickLitYouAFlame Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 5/7 6:26pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	Have you decided what year you are setting the game? -----signature----- Hot Pocketsssss
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Hammurabi Registered: Jan '07	Date Posted: 5/7 6:30pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/7 6:30pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Hammurabi
	Probably in the aftermath of the Battle of Yavin. -----signature----- quis custodiet ipsos custodes
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SephyCloneNo15 Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 5/7 6:49pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	So are we now trying to shift gears to the Jedi purge and its ramifications? When you mentioned modernization, I thought of the French Revolution, can't remember which phase of it, but the immense secularization, where they even went so far as to get rid of months named after Roman gods. Perhaps this can be utilized. We know Vader betrayed and murdered the Jedi. We know Vader's pretty high up in the Empire. Therefore, given the information at hand, it's not too tough to say, even if we don't have any of the expressly stated information from the EU or other movies, that the Empire is responsible for the destruction of the Jedi. We also know Obi-Wan claims the Jedi were the Old Republic's guardians of peace and justice, and we know that Luke doesn't know the first thing about Jedi, the Force, Lightsabers, etc. All this information can be taken at a number of different angles. Does Luke represent a galactic everyman in his ignorance of Jedi nature, or is he just a scruffy nerf herder who's opinion on the matter is about as valid as a Bantha's? Were the Jedi the public Jedi we know from the PT and EU, or were they the secret society we've been discussing the possibility of them being? Nonetheless, we know Vader is an ex-Jedi serving the Empire. We know there were Jedi, but now there aren't. We know Jedi served some important purpose, hence their demise being the kickoff to the "Dark Times". Now, nature abhors a vacuum. Perhaps our Empire could have a legion of Imperial Jedi to fill the void left by the extinction of the Jedi. They've already got one. Perhaps he could have trained others. I especially like this if we can stick them into that secret society kinda role. When did the term "Dark Lord of the Sith" pop up? I thought it was around well before anyone knew what to do with it. Perhaps we could twist that a little. -----signature----- Member: GDG, GMG. Sub-GM: CDG Zam Wessel Lives! Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Squib Creations Limited-Edition Replica Glove of Darth Vader™ "Samuel L. Jackson isn't only a fine actor, but a gamer. He's one of us." ~ Kotaku
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NickLitYouAFlame Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 5/7 6:58pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	Dark Lord of the Sith has been around for a while, I think. But, most people didn't even know about Sith until Sidious took over. So, it's safe to surmise that we can twist that title anyway we please. As long as it conforms to Hammur’s concept, obviously. Would the Imperial Jedi not just be a legion of acolytes? If anything like that existed, I tend to think Vader would have avoided to term Jedi. But, would he establish a whole new affiliation? -----signature----- Hot Pocketsssss
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Hammurabi Registered: Jan '07	Date Posted: 5/7 7:24pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	The French Revolution is another good example of the kind of modernization I'm talking about. There's secularization involved, and even the persecution of religious figures. These are common trends in global revolutions and modernizations. If we view the Empire as progressive (which I'm not saying it necessarily is), the destruction of the Jedi can be seen as a consequence of progress. Of course Obi-Wan refers to it as a 'Dark Age' - from his perspective, the galaxy is very much on the wrong track. Again, that's not to say the Empire is a bunch of good guys. But they aren't all bad, either. And my general train of thought with the Force is that traditional Jedi are on the decline. Conventional lightsaber combat is no longer feasible, when the training and effort is taken into consideration. However, I think the Force should still be a very active part of our galaxy; the biggest difference is that people will be harnessing the Force in different ways. Maybe elite troops will go through some limited Force training, to enhance their perception and aim. Maybe espionage agents will practice the art of the Jedi mind trick. Or commanders will develop abilities to use the Force to inspire their troops. These are all possibilities that sound pretty reasonable. However, I don't think full-scale Force training will be as common anymore. I think the Jedi will remain a scattered presence in the galaxy, with enough old Jedi like Obi-Wan training young Jedi like Luke. Dedicated Jedi will still be around in limited numbers on the outskirts of the galaxy. I think there would be uses for other, more official Force operatives. The Jedi skillset (mind tricks, stealth, perception) seems to lend itself well to ninja-style agents. I see that as an interesting possibility. -----signature----- quis custodiet ipsos custodes
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Saintheart Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 5/7 7:38pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/7 7:47pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Saintheart
	NickLitYouAFlame posted: Dark Lord of the Sith has been around for a while, I think. But, most people didn't even know about Sith until Sidious took over. So, it's safe to surmise that we can twist that title anyway we please. As long as it conforms to Hammur’s concept, obviously. "Lord of the Sith" was the full title of Darth Vader's character in ANH, even though it's never stated onscreen; I think it makes it either into the script or into Lucas's treatment, but it has no other mention onscreen during the OT at all. It's in the same league as Ewok -- household name, but never mentioned onscreen at all during ROTJ. (Marketing exercise anyone?) The extent of the "canon" nonuse of "Sith" generally can be illustrated by EU developments between the PT and the OT: Dark Horse Comics IIRC thought the Sith were a distinct species and did a couple of comics about it (around Exar Kun's time) where Yavin was one of their worlds. Timothy Zahn also had thought the Sith were a distinct species -- the Noghri originally were going to be the Sith -- but Lucas kayoed the idea. (As an aside, Lucas's "play cards close to his chest/no idea until writing the script" attitude IMHHO did a lot of damage to Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy. Zahn has always regretted that he knew nothing about the Kaminoans before he wrote the books and blundered into creating Spaarti cylinders, which then had to be retconned to make half of it fit. It even shows in "Outbound Flight" -- masterful as ol' Timmy is, you can just about hear his teeth grinding in frustration as he shoehorns the history of Outbound Flight into Lucas's vision of the period just before the Clone Wars broke out.) In other words, you're as free as a bird to make the Sith into a species, a robot, whatever. The Emperor is never a Sith Lord onscreen during the OT, and he's [/i]never[/i] a Darth, either. We know Vader betrayed and murdered the Jedi. We know Vader's pretty high up in the Empire. Therefore, given the information at hand, it's not too tough to say, even if we don't have any of the expressly stated information from the EU or other movies, that the Empire is responsible for the destruction of the Jedi. The precise wording Obi-Wan uses, again, is that Darth Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights." It's the Empire driving their elimination, not Darth Vader. Were the Jedi the public Jedi we know from the PT and EU, or were they the secret society we've been discussing the possibility of them being? I would argue a secret society. Consider this dialogue from the "mofference": "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes. Or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fortr-- gasp choke cough" "I find your lack of faith disturbing." And consider when Vader senses Obi-Wan's presence on the Death Star and reports it to Tarkin: "Surely he must be dead by now." "Don't underestimate the Force." "The Jedi are extinct; their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion." Now, to me those two pieces of dialogue, combined with Han Solo's recognition and dismissal of the Force, suggests that the Force was the religion of the Jedi, which was looked on with some amusement or disbelief at least in modern times. I would have thought that precluded the idea of public Jedi showing their powers overtly; as Vader rather succinctly shows, it's difficult to disbelieve a religion when somebody is using it to kill you - or toss things around, or use Jedi mind tricks, or whatever. So that leaves the Jedi Order as semi-mythical to the average citizen in the galaxy -- in other words, a secret society. Perhaps our Empire could have a legion of Imperial Jedi to fill the void left by the extinction of the Jedi. They've already got one. Perhaps he could have trained others. I especially like this if we can stick them into that secret society kinda role. The problem with the "Imperial Jedi" concept is Tarkin's assertion that Vader is all that's left of the Jedi religion. Now, Tarkin can't speak for the Jedi hiding out in the galaxy, but he can speak for officially-mandated bodies under the Empire, I would have thought. And he's quite confident in his assertion, so I would imagine that if "Imperial Jedi" do exist, they are a closely-guarded secret. EDIT: On Hammur's thoughts as to the Force in daily use, you have to contend with Han Solo's ideas on the Force -- he's portrayed as the man of the world, so to speak, somebody who's well-travelled in the galaxy. And his idea on the Force? "Kid, I've been from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff. But I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one, all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense." Which I grant you doesn't exclude the idea that there are Force-trained people out there, but they'll be very few and far between. The Force is a derided religion, it seems, and most people of the galaxy don't believe in it. Interestingly, Dodonna still gives the blessing "may the Force be with you" towards the end, but I would've interpreted this as akin to "good luck" -- more for superstition than real belief in the Force. -----signature----- Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife. Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007 Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 5/7 9:30pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	Perhaps our Empire could have a legion of Imperial Jedi to fill the void left by the extinction of the Jedi. Didnt Lucas had something like that planned for the OT but scrubbed it? The problem with the "Imperial Jedi" concept is Tarkin's assertion that Vader is all that's left of the Jedi religion. Now, Tarkin can't speak for the Jedi hiding out in the galaxy, but he can speak for officially-mandated bodies under the Empire, I would have thought. And he's quite confident in his assertion, so I would imagine that if "Imperial Jedi" do exist, they are a closely-guarded secret. Tarkin is a pompous know-it-all. Anyway... Imperial Jedi's religion could be far different from the "Jedi religion" that Tarkin refers too. The Imperial Jedi could be pretty much like the Imperial Knights where the Emperor is the center of their religion rather than the Force. In fact the Imperial Jedi/Knights could be treated very similar to Roman Praetorians. Elite guard who protect the Emperor and the interests of the Empire. Also, i suggest we look at the novelizations of the OT. Not the reprints, but the original versions. They give us a better insight into what Lucas wanted for Star Wars before he could digitally screw them up. -----signature----- "Dyin' be the day worth livin' for!" --Captain Hector Barbossa PotC: Amuletum Angiti http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3635826/1/ http://s12.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=48046
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Darth_Elu Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 5/7 10:57pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	Basically, Mitth, you're saying the Crimson/Royal Guards could be the 'Imperial Knights'? There you go, if given the green light. Yes, yes. They're not shown on screen so potentially scrap...but if you're feeling lazy, you already got a uniform for them. The force-pikes can be kept or discarded however. Though I believe if there are Imperial Knights around, then they'll have lightsabers still...though more ceremonial than anything. Only used in emergency situations. The crafting of one is perhaps one of the final tests to become a member of that tiny sect. -----signature----- Brittnee My love, my life E-married to the love of my life! "Ichigo! Come out and fight me, you *******!" Master to Yukari_Nahashi I am Death: RIP George Carlin
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SephyCloneNo15 Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 5/8 12:21am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	I was thinking, for the Imperial Jedi or "Sith", they would kind of be that class of character you see in every great work of cyberpunk/dystopian sci-fi: The Jackbooted Enforcer. They're the types of guys, like, for example, FFVII's Turks or the Judges of FF Tactics Advance, or the Gestapo. When you see them, you know the situation's too bad to trust normal cops with. You need to call in the specialists, leaving the regular cops dumbfounded and trembling with orders to get the Caf. Actually, Jac...Caedus' GAG is a pretty good example of what I'm thinking of, just with more force use and REBJ tactics. -----signature----- Member: GDG, GMG. Sub-GM: CDG Zam Wessel Lives! Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Squib Creations Limited-Edition Replica Glove of Darth Vader™ "Samuel L. Jackson isn't only a fine actor, but a gamer. He's one of us." ~ Kotaku
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Saintheart Title: Manager and Wandering Swordsman of the RPF Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 5/8 12:25am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/8 12:26am (1 edits total) Edited By: Saintheart
	Also, i suggest we look at the novelizations of the OT. Not the reprints, but the original versions. They give us a better insight into what Lucas wanted for Star Wars before he could digitally screw them up. Not a bad thought, if it was Lucas who wrote them or properly supervised them. As it is, back then the art of the movie novelisation hadn't gone much beyond "moneymaking device" in terms of the commitment film studios or directors showed to it. You can pretty much forget the ESB or ROTJ novelisations even in their original form; aside from including a scene or two that were deleted from the final cuts of the movies, they are just banal recitations of the script and add nothing to the universe at all. Compare that to Stover's ROTS, which actually works better than the movie does... Alan Dean Foster's ghostwritten novelisation of ANH (they gave Uncle George the author credit) is a bit better because it's actually written by a science fiction author instead of a hack, but again it suffers from a lack of input from Lucas if he gave a damn about it anyway. Obi-Wan Kenobi spouts a line that "even a duck has to be taught how to swim" (although rather amusingly Luke asks what a duck is), and we've got the questionable prologue that talks of the Emperor being hidden away from the people. I'm not at all convinced you can regard that as Lucas-designed or approved; remember he didn't have much of the creative control over the merchandising element of movies until after ANH was a hit. I was thinking, for the Imperial Jedi or "Sith", they would kind of be that class of character you see in every great work of cyberpunk/dystopian sci-fi: The Jackbooted Enforcer. They're the types of guys, like, for example, FFVII's Turks or the Judges of FF Tactics Advance, or the Gestapo. When you see them, you know the situation's too bad to trust normal cops with. You need to call in the specialists, leaving the regular cops dumbfounded and trembling with orders to get the Caf. Actually, Jac...Caedus' GAG is a pretty good example of what I'm thinking of, just with more force use and REBJ tactics. ...Or the Grammaton Cleric, perhaps... -----signature----- Michelle: my Italian queen, my angel, my reason, my wife. Jessica: my little princess, my daughter, born 10 August 2007 Director -- Star Wars: Knighthood
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CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 5/8 10:10am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	There is also in the concept art of a Stormtrooper with a lightsaber. So the idea was out there, just never used. -----signature----- "Dyin' be the day worth livin' for!" --Captain Hector Barbossa PotC: Amuletum Angiti http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3635826/1/ http://s12.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=48046
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NickLitYouAFlame Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 5/8 1:56pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	CmdrMitthrawnuruodo posted: There is also in the concept art of a Stormtrooper with a lightsaber. So the idea was out there, just never used. That's an interesting idea. Not a stormtrooper with a lightsaber, because I thought we decided no lightsabers. It just got me thinking. Rather than entire squadrons of Force-users, disguised as regular troops, why not have regular stormtroopers with one Force-user. One skilled in decpetion, able to hide himself and able to boost the morale of his peers. It would improve the effectiveness of the squad, without garnering serious hostile interest. -----signature----- Hot Pocketsssss
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Hammurabi Registered: Jan '07	Date Posted: 5/8 6:30pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/8 7:40pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Hammurabi
	Saintheart posted: On Hammur's thoughts as to the Force in daily use, you have to contend with Han Solo's ideas on the Force -- he's portrayed as the man of the world, so to speak, somebody who's well-travelled in the galaxy. And his idea on the Force? "Kid, I've been from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff. But I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one, all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense." Which I grant you doesn't exclude the idea that there are Force-trained people out there, but they'll be very few and far between. The Force is a derided religion, it seems, and most people of the galaxy don't believe in it. Interestingly, Dodonna still gives the blessing "may the Force be with you" towards the end, but I would've interpreted this as akin to "good luck" -- more for superstition than real belief in the Force. Good point. Han's perspective is a very important one when we examine the state of the Force. You're right - the Force is a pretty sparse presence in the galaxy during the ANH era. Most of what's there is hidden. That doesn't limit us to Kenobi-types - we can still have our Force ninjas, if we want. And I think the other ideas still work, as long as we keep our limits strict. As in, maybe there's a regiment of elite Force soldiers out there, or maybe it's still in the development stage. But these are the best of the best, and they'd have to be pretty rare if we go by Han's statements. And the 'jackbooted enforcer' idea - that works out, I think; in some ways, Darth Vader plays that sort of role in ANH. I can see the Empire having maybe one elite unit of Force troopers, then maybe a handful of other top-caliber Force users on their side. Vader-level. Anyways, that upcoming post on the game's structure? You might just see it tonight. EDIT: All right, the idea is this. Episodic is one way to manage things, but I don't think it's the best way for this type of endeavor. Anyways, or problem right now is this: a focus too narrow limits the game's scope, but too broad a focus is difficult to manage, especially for a first-time GM. And if the one thread doesn't work out, the project sinks. So the solution is we take a specific scenario within our galaxy, and it can be as narrow as we like. But we keep the option for new threads open down the line, especially if the scope on the first one is more limited. Basically, the idea resembles episodic, except the episodes don't have to follow each other linearly - they don't have to be related much at all, really, just as long as they're in the same galaxy. Each thread that arises is essentially a window into this new old galaxy, a microcosm of the larger picture. This allows control over the individual thread while still presenting the opportunity to look at our galaxy from multiple angles. And of course, if this ever goes beyond one thread, I imagine we'll see substantial interaction between threads. Thus far, I haven't known exactly what to do with the Imperial core - it's an interesting angle, but one that wouldn't fit into an Outer Rim thread. The Imperial angle is a path I'm keen on exploring though, and it looks like there's some support for it. In a standard thread, this would be difficult to incorporate, as the Imperial officers seem to interact only indirectly with anybody who's actually from the Outer Rim. But this method can potentially allow for more of that indirect interaction. It also allows for a 'subplot' sort of thing - if this thing ever developed an overarching plot, we could still focus in the little stories that are relatively meaningless were we to look at this on a larger scale. I mean, maybe the occasional thing on a scale similar to that of Leá Monde. So the basic idea is flexibility. Keep a tight cohesive game, with a whole galaxy to expand into one way or another, if this goes that far. That's the gist of it, I guess - I don't know how it sounds, but I don't feel like I fully expressed it here. Anyways, I got a couple of specific game ideas for it, but it's getting late for me, and I better not post either of 'em yet. -----signature----- quis custodiet ipsos custodes
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garindanslob Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 5/10 3:23am Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy
	What an interesting and novel idea. -----signature----- The devil is an optimist if he plans to make us meaner.
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Hammurabi Registered: Jan '07	Date Posted: 5/12 2:52pm Subject: RE: A New Old Star Wars Galaxy - Date Edited: 5/12 2:54pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Hammurabi
	Expect a couple specific game ideas in about eight to ten hours (probably). Though I might get sidetracked. -----signature----- quis custodiet ipsos custodes
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