The Gray Jedi believed in balance, not only in the Force, but in every other aspect of the galaxy as well. Just like Jedi, they wielded lightsabers and used both light and dark sides of the Force. They believed that there was no light side or dark side to the force. The believed there was just the force and that to use both light and dark powers was the basis for true balance in yourself.
Ktala posted: Tenets They are not mentioned in the Code, but should be known for all Jedi. * The Jedi are the guardians of civilization, yet not allow civilization to destroy needlessly. * A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for aggression or personal gain. o A corollary of the Code was "A Jedi does not act for personal power." * The lightsaber is the symbol of the members of the Jedi Order. * Jedi do not marry (with some exceptions), in order to avoid attachment.However, in many periods of the Order's history, such as the era prior to Exar Kun and in Luke Skywalker's reformed Jedi Order, marriage was not forbidden. * Jedi respect one another and all life forms. * Jedi must put the needs of the community above the needs of individuals. * A Jedi must protect the weak and defenseless from evil. * Jedi must always cooperate in battle or crisis. * Jedi must not have wants; self-reliance must be shown. * Jedi are forbidden from ruling others, although by the end of the Republic there was some debate over whether or not this was part of the actual Code. * A Jedi Master may not have more than one Padawan. This particular rule developed after the Old Sith Wars, as most ancient Masters such as Arca Jeth, Thon, Vodo-Siosk Baas and Krynda Draay did not have to abide by it. The Jedi Exile also trained many apprentices at the same time due to their Force-sensitivity and the galaxy's dire need for Jedi. However, one apprentice per master seemed to be the standard around 32 BBY. But due to the lack of numbers in Luke Skywalker's Academy, several padawans per master was forced, as seen in Jaden Korr and Rosh Penin training under Kyle Katarn * While the Code did not mention a maximum age for taking Padawans, Jedi Master Simikarty wrote influential interpretations of the Code that inserted such limits; over time, his interpretations of the Code became conflated with the Code itself. In Revan's era, apprentices were taken from early childhood. After the end of the New Sith Wars, it became policy to take apprentices from infancy, which proved controversial with those outside the Order. Conversely, Nomi Sunrider started her training as an adult, as did the apprentices of the Jedi Exile and many of the New Jedi Order. * A Jedi will not kill an unarmed opponent. * A Jedi will not take revenge. * A Jedi does not cling to the past. * The Jedi do not believe in killing their prisoners.
MarcusDade posted:I can use force lightning to jump-start someone's heart and bring them back to life.
SaddhaQinntara posted:If I may interject... When I first heard about the idea of the Gray Jedi and such, I found that it seemed to have become a really popular fad and sort of a fashionable novelty to think of the Force as neither Evil nor Good, and that those who disregarded both sides and stayed in the middle became all-powerful. So, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started making characters that were like, "My character is Grand Lord Nelson. He found long ago that the Light side and Dark side are a lie, and now he has tapped into powers beyond anyone's comprehension..." If that kind of thing were true, the Sith would have figured that out long ago and utilized it to achieve their goals. Also, that type of character is both idiotic and pompous. But that's beside the point. The school of thought that the Jedi follow is, at it's core, correct. The Jedi Order had existed for 25,000 years. That's about five times or more what any of our most insightful schools have ever existed here on Earth. You can't have a particular curriculum that get's studied, disciplined and perceived for that many millennia and have it turn out to be completely wrong. It seems a tad redundant. Consider this theory: “The Force cannot be split into light and dark. To truly understand it, one must utilize the greater aspects of both to achieve greater knowledge." Gaining Omnipotent power within the Force has nothing to do with using both the light side and dark side together, or failing to acknowledge that the Force has a light and dark side. The Force is the manifestation of thoughts and feelings in action. Just like a neutrality of thought, you are left with indecision, or you cannot completely align to either one ideal or the other, and thus never truly realize the potential of your actions. In that manner the Force is much like this. If you stay in between and choose to align neither to the light side or the dark side, you create a limitation on your potential, and thus cannot truly realize your power within the Force. That is why those who have chosen to arbor the ideal of being "Grey" in the Force are actually impeding their own power and have thus rendered themselves weaklings. You choose either light or dark. Live in between, and you will only stand on the edge of an horizon, never knowing what truly lies beyond. This is the true nature of the Force. “There are Jedi that regard the Force as one whole.” It is a whole, but it moves in a circle, and even within this circle chaos and peace swirl together at intersections to bind the Force together. But, to realize true understanding to the Force, you must merge with it at either its light or dark side. Stay within the twilight, and you bind yourself to a more baser realm within the existence of the Force. After a lot of thought, I came to that conclusion, and though It may be right, it may also be wrong. Thoughts?
SaddhaQinntara posted:Heh, If you think about it, it's like coming to a road and deciding that you have to either cross it, or don't If you just sit there forever though, not crossing the road, but not completely ruling out your intention to cross it, you will never reach your destination on the other side. Your goal. That Force is like that, you can choose to be Light, or you can choose to be Dark. Saying in the middle lends flexibility, but your power will be forever impeded, because you cannot make a decision, you are stuck in between. If the goal is omnipotence or understanding the Force, you won't reach it just standing there, you have to take a step.
SaddhaQinntara posted:You could have two extremely Force-Sensitive people get together, and they're child could possibly not have anywhere near their Midi-chlorian count, or just not be Force-Sensitive at all.
DarthXan318 posted:Psst - use the Edit button. SaddhaQinntara posted:You could have two extremely Force-Sensitive people get together, and they're child could possibly not have anywhere near their Midi-chlorian count, or just not be Force-Sensitive at all. Actually, so far in canon, Force sensitivity is passed down through the generations - the Skywalker family being the main example.
LightWarden posted:Seven of the past ten posts have been yours. Calm down. Repeatedly posting asking people to read your posts only serves to annoy. Heh, I can't help it. I only seek to be as smart as someone like Marcus Dade one day. Sort of. The Force is something of a crapshoot, but statistically, two Force-sensitive parents have a pretty good chance of producing a Force sensitive child (hence why we have things such as the "Skywalker bloodline", the "Sunrider bloodline", and the "Halcyon bloodline"). It is by no means a guarantee, as demonstrated by Tigris. Though if laws of heredity still apply in this world, statistically speaking, two parents who are at the "top of the charts" in terms of Force power will have a fairly high likelihood of having a child who is "weaker" in the Force (I'd like to take this moment to say: **** midichlorians, for turning mysticism into DBZ). Basically, it's possible, but the amount of time and generations and defects you'd incur means that you'd be a serious jerk for doing so, which is why the whole thing is a joke (it's also why Plaugeis took the easy way out and just stuffed power into Anakin when creating him, according to the New Essential Chronology. Though why he chose Tatooine remains a mystery to me to this day. Perhaps it was only a temporary measure, until Sidious pulled off his coup and threw a spanner in the works). You know, you bring up a good point. That is very true. I suppose then that it works much like recessive/dominant genes do in real life? Just because something works, doesn't mean you're correct. It's like assuming that your computer is powered by little people who are summoned each time you press a button. Your computer may continue working, but it doesn't mean that your view of things is true. Not that I think the Jedi are wrong, but this isn't something you can use to prove that they're correct (though you can show that it has worked, and conjecture that they're probably doing *something* right). True, but your a very smart guy, so try imagining a school that has been in existence for the same length of time that we went from being furry hominids to being able to travel into space - that's how long that school has been developing and expanding in thought. Seriously, try to fathom it. Do you have it? That's immense. That's why I said it's a tad redundant for it to be completely wrong. It's also a tad presumptuous for the Jedi of the NJO to discard it's teaching aside and "suddenly realize that using both sides of the Force is the way to true power and understanding". I'd avoid the pointless analogies until you've already got a firm position and are using analogies to help people understand your point of view (and you've explicitly stated that you're not entirely sure of yourself). Otherwise it's like saying "Gravity pulls things down. Therefore, the natural way of all things is down and that's why everyone on top should give their things to those on the bottom." I assure you, I don't do pointless analogies, unlike some that I've seen. My post was rather, a defense to those pointless analogies about the Force offered by some fans. And yeah, I'm not sure of myself, well, no, I am but If I say that then I'll get a ton of, "Your so full of your own views!" crap. To be honest, I'm not completely, but I've done some deep study concerning the Force for years when I was bored out of my mind, and I'm pretty sure about this theory. Anyways, your conjecture about there being power in picking a side probably requires some sort of evidence/examples to elevate this claim above a mere thought experiment. I suppose you could use the video games, as KotOR had a specific mechanical system wherein your alignment determined the cost of powers, where leaning towards one side made its powers cheaper (I don't remember if it was more effective, though if it was, it might be a decent start for a claim), while doing the reverse for the other (and going totally to one side blocked off the powers for the other). Meanwhile, in Jedi Outcast, Kyle could use "light" and "dark" powers, but there didn't seem to be any changes in cost/power (does this mean he's in the middle of the alignment scheme?). There does seem to be some sort of indicator that emotions may have some effect on strength/presence, as we can watch RotJ and see Luke flip out and start beating back one of the most powerful men in the galaxy after said man threatens his sister (though Palpatine may have had some hand in this thing, he seemed to have some degree of proficiency in a weird Sith form of Battle Meditation, according to the Thrawn trilogy). Similarly, you could argue that there's some evidence where calmness and serenity seem to lend some degree of strength, as Yoda and other masters seem to do best when they're completely calm. Then again, Dooku seemed to be pretty relaxed during most of his fights, so if he was calling on the Dark Side, it doesn't seem like he had to be in a surge of passion. Of course, you could argue that both of these things are intrinsic to the user and not any indicator that there's a light or dark side, but rather that being calm allows you to make intelligent decisions while being enraged allows you to bring everything to bear on one target or something. So yeah, you need some examples to back your claim. I actually feel it's a shame that I don't have more time to get into the discussion at the moment. I'm supposed to go help my uncle with some things soon. But yeah, there is evidence for the fact that emotions tie directly into use of the Force - it's the trigger. Your a really smart guy, so I figured you'd understand what I talked about when I said that the Force is emotion and thought transmuted into action. The fact that we see it in the movies and such makes that kind of thing obvious though. Also, Dooku used anger to utilize the Dark side, but you can't always see a person's anger from outward expression, remember? I will get more into the subject later on and elaborate on just what I mean so don't worry. But yeah, the evidence is all over the movies and EU, you just have to look to see it. You also (inadvertently?) brought up an interesting point. Why is it that all of these clowns seem to pick the path that leads to "UNLIMITED POWAH!" ? It's completely bizarre. It's some sort of "Right Makes Might" thing where apparently since you've chosen correctly, the Force loves you more, and gives you the power to beat the living daylights out of anyone foolish enough to not be born as someone other than you or your followers. It's ridiculous, that they somehow manage to pick the right side, because it's the one that offers power. "You know, I was worried about this whole 'devouring Force-sensitive babies' thing, but my skin has never been smoother and my blood is now saturated with midichlorians. Good to know I made the right decision!" Furthermore, let's assume that there really is one way to UNLIMITED POWAH! Where then are the characters who say "you know, I don't care if you're offering me power, I'm not going to sacrifice my beliefs or who I am just for the sake of being able to move bigger rocks." It's the playground joy of "my faction can beat up your faction, which means that it's right, and not a collection of homicidal maniacs who are incapable of making an argument that doesn't rely on brute force to make up for an utter lack of substance".
