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Topic:
The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Jedi_Drizzt
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
8/14 9:06am
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
- Date Edited:
8/14 9:07am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedi_Drizzt
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Independence1776 posted:
As for the movies, I have a love/hate relationship. I love the visuals- New Zealand was the perfect choice. Many of the changes I don't like, but there are a few I do. But Peter Jackson will never be forgiven for massacring Elrond's character. The changes made to Faramir run a close second.
I agree. There's olny one thing to say: Elves in Helm's Deep! 
That stuff from "Lay of Leithan" is great. Thank you for quotes, Amon_Amarth. 
I was about to mention Robe of Darkness when I started reading thi page, but yeah, you beat me to it.
NYCitygurl posted:
Seriously, any time you want anold thread unlocked, just let Raven or I know
O, please do. I think I have a topic for that place, but last time I check it it was old.
Edit: ^^ please ignore that. I just now saw that you did unlock it.
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Amon_Amarth
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
8/14 2:59pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Jedi_Drizzt posted:
I agree. There's olny one thing to say: Elves in Helm's Deep!
Yeah. It looked good in the movie, and it's always amazing seeing Elves fight, but it was just wrong, an unnecessary change of the book.
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Count_Doodie
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
9/8 6:19pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Amon_Amarth posted:
Jeremyguy, Count_Doodie - Luthien's description in the Lay of Leithian:
"Her robe was blue as summer skies,
but not so blue as were her eyes;
'twas swen with golden lillies fair,
but none so golden as her hair."
12-15
cheers for the response. i'm glad i sporadically check this thread.
so she had blue eyes and gold hair just like Mablung says. which brings me back to my original question, why dos Turin see her as with dark eyes and dark hair?
-doodie
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yankee8255
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
9/9 1:57am
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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I really don't have that big of a problem with elves at Helm's Deep per se. My problem, is why would they fight at Helm's Deep but not Minas Tirith. And why did they all basically vanish after Helm's Deep. Were they all killed?
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Raja_Io
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
9/9 2:55am
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
- Date Edited:
9/9 2:56am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Raja_Io
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You've got me confused here. Wasn't the initial discussion about Nienor's looks and how Turin may have seen her differently than other people? And Amon's quotes from the Lay of Leithian describe Luthien, not Nienor.
Somebody please explain.
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Count_Doodie
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
9/9 8:29am
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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oh yeah! in my hast i seemed to have got luthien and nienor mixed up. back to square one?
-doodie
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Tooqui_The_Jedi
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/10 1:22pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Has anyone but me read the Simarillion?
It was a hard one to stick with, but its got the history of Man, Elves, and Dwarves encased within
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timmoishere
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
9/11 12:18pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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yankee8255 posted:
I really don't have that big of a problem with elves at Helm's Deep per se. My problem, is why would they fight at Helm's Deep but not Minas Tirith. And why did they all basically vanish after Helm's Deep. Were they all killed?
I think the Elves were supposed to be a replacement for Halbarad and his company. They arrived too late to help at Helm's Deep, but they did help Aragorn steal the corsair ships. Halbarad died in the fighting at Minas Tirith in the book. I would guess that in the movie version, all the Elves died at Helm's Deep.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
9/11 2:41pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Not all the elves, but the leader did, in a very sad moment  Can't remember his name right now.
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yankee8255
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
9/17 3:04am
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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It's the elf they first meet in Lothlorien, who has some tense words with Gimli. I forget his name too.
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timmoishere
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
9/17 5:36pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Haldir
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
9/17 6:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Haldir, that's it.
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SoA
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
9/18 4:39pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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I usually don't like it when movies go and add things that weren't in the book I loved, but the elves at Helm's Deep were an awesome addition. It wasn't a huge plot point, but it really added to the aesthetic and intensity of the battle.
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AquaRose
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
10/2 8:32am
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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Can I clarify?
Luthien has raven black hair, like the night sky and eyes that are blue like a deep pool of water.
Luthien + blonde hair=frightening glitch somewhere.
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Yeade
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
10/4 5:16pm
Subject:
RE: The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.
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AquaRose, I believe Amon_Amarth's quote about a golden-haired, blue-eyed Lúthien is from an early draft of "The Lay of Leithian" that wasn't used. People just got confused. No doubt in large part because half the posters weren't speaking of Lúthien to begin with, lol. Also, note that Lúthien's eyes are gray. She's dark-haired and gray-eyed like most, if not all, of her descendants. Elrond and his three children, for example. Hell, Elros, the Kings of Númenor, Gondor and Arnor from him to Aragorn, and other Dúnedain closely related to that line. In fact, these folks are so depressingly uniform in being dark-haired and gray-eyed, despite the occasional marriages to those of different coloring, that I figure such features are an inheritance from Melian, Lúthien's mother and a Maia--one that doesn't exactly play by the rules of genetics. Of course, gray can become blue-gray, green-gray, or even silver with a little creative license. 
Regarding Haldir and the Elven company from Lothlórien fighting at Helm's Deep in the TTT film, I admit I don't much appreciate their presence because a) I really like the Grey Company, which includes not only Halbarad, the Rangers of the North, but Elrond's twin sons, Aragorn's foster brothers and b) I can't help thinking that Celeborn and Galadriel need those troops to fend off attacks from Dol Guldur. Unfortunately, the only mentions of both these elements in LOTR proper, during the council of Elrond, was cut from the movies, so suddenly introducing them would only cause confusion for viewers who haven't obsessively read the books.
My one moment of inappropriate laughing at the films has to do with the Grey Company or lack thereof, too, actually: When Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli stumble out of the Paths of the Dead in the ROTK EE to find the Corsairs right there, conveniently within running distance... Man, I almost bust my gut laughing. The Three Hunters clearly ran through an invisible space-time warp that instantaneously teleported them about two or three days' hard ride away to the Anduin. Though, to be sure, I often feel the Oathbreakers are a huge deus ex machina Tolkien created sometime between TTT and ROTK when he realized Aragorn was short an army. 
Lastly, I'm not so sure PJ totally massacred Elrond's character so much as time-shifted reactions he may have had, say, following Aragorn and Arwen's somewhat illicit betrothal. This tangle of relationships is pretty terrible on all parties involved and, IMO, it's not entirely out of the question that, at some point in the six or so decades between Aragorn's first meeting with Arwen and FOTR, all three said things they didn't intend or later regretted. "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" is kind of vague on this point. For example, I and many LOTR fanfic writers, lol, don't believe it's coincidental that Aragorn leaves the North and Rivendell for over twenty years after he falls in love with Arwen. Certainly, Gandalf probably encourages him to do so, as he needs the knowledge and experience if he's to ever restore the kingship, but Aragorn perhaps doesn't mind an excuse to be away from Elrond. Ditto for Arwen, who returns again to Lórien.
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