Jedi Council Forums - Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)

Jedi Council Forums » Science Fiction and Fantasy » SFF: Books and Comics »

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 - ~~Previous~~ | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 1/3/06 12:24pm Subject: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	So you've clicked this thread, you've either read Book 6 or don't care to be spoiled, so you might as well know that this thread serves for the related discussions of "Is Dumbledore truly dead?" and "Is Snape good or evil?" So, what do you think? M. Scott -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.blogspot.com
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
masterluke9 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 1/3/06 12:28pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Snape Good Dumbledore alive and well.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
TC-47 Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 1/3/06 12:31pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Snape BBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDD and Dumbly alive. -----signature----- Regret, Regret, Regret ¤Acolyte of Revan¤ If something is hard to do, its not worth doing. Mark Twain: Go to Heaven for the climate, and Hell for the company.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 1/3/06 12:46pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Care to give your reasonings, guys? Personally, I think Snape is good, but Dumbledore is truly dead. I think that when Snape made the unbreakable vow (which he had to do lest he blow his cover), he went straight to Dumbledore, and probably even said he would die before he killed Dumbledore (which, due to the Unbreakable Vow, would be true). But Dumbledore has always said there are many things worse than death, and he would have seen that Snape as a member of Voldemort's inner circle -- possibly even guaranteed to be right-hand man after doing away with Dumbledore -- was much more valuable and worth sacrificing himself, just as he froze Harry to prevent him from doing anything because he sees Harry as much more valuable than himself. It would also explain Dumbledore's almost furious defenses of his trust in Snape. He had asked Snape to do the unthinkable and, in his loyalty, Snape finally relented. Dumbledore surely knew he was going to die after drinking from the potion in the bowl, when he drank it, and if Snape was truly evil he surely would have done more to Harry than block his spells and CONTINUE TEACHING HIM HOW TO IMPROVE, albeit in the form of battlefield taunting. I think everyone in the story is going to believe Snape to be evil but in the end they will have to trust him and he will help them save the world. M. Scott -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.blogspot.com
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Sith_Priestess Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 1/3/06 1:15pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I agree with Scott about Snape and Dumbledore. It would be pretty cheesy to bring people back from the dead and I doubt that JKR is going to do it. The reason she has been killing off the adults that are close to Harry serves to illustrate that he is going to have to fight Voldemort alone. I believe in the next book that Snape will probably be slipping information by making a few minor mistakes that will lead Harry to Voldemort and eventually die protecting Harry from the other Death Eaters so that Harry can fight Voldemort. Just my two cents. ~Priestess -----signature----- Priestess is moving to Indiana. Go Irish! AHBY\| Knight\| Jedi_Daniel I talk to squirrels: chikoo chikoo chikoo Cookie GirlProvider of Homemade Cookies Remus Lupin is my kind of werewolf howl*
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
AmberStarbright Title: FF Halton Canada Banner Artist Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 1/3/06 3:12pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers) - Date Edited: 1/3/06 3:12pm (1 edits total) Edited By: AmberStarbright
	I think Snape is good, basically for the reasons above. Especially when Dumbledore was bad to sound like he was pleading with Snape, he isn't the type of man to beg for his life. -----signature----- "There's enough filth on my robes without you touching them." I Mike http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=501317463 Marauder
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Amon_Amarth Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/3/06 3:25pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Snape - bad Dumbledore - well, I haven't figured it out yet. He is dead, but my heart tells me that his story doesn't end yet... -----signature----- Jedi Guardian - Acolytes of Revan "The Force is fine...but I would have preferred some company." 'Caenorhabditis elegans' is much better than Darth Plagueis at cheating death. "Don't **** with the Jedi Master, son!" Mark Hamill, CE
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
citizenjohn Title: President, MEPA FanForce, NYC Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 1/3/06 3:26pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I have to agree with Scott as well. Snape had to kill Dumbledore to prove to Voldermort and the other Deatheaters that he was truly one of them, all the while he realy is/was working for the order of the phoenix. Kinda like how a FBI deep cover guy works for organized crime. -----signature----- MEPA http://www.mepa-nyc.com G'Kar - "There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom" Sic Semper Tyrannis Veni Vidi Vici The Revolution Has Begun
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Amon_Amarth Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/3/06 3:34pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Yeah, but Dumbledore is not an ordinary man you would kill just like that, to proove something. He is the greatest wizard ever. The only one whom Voldemort fears. -----signature----- Jedi Guardian - Acolytes of Revan "The Force is fine...but I would have preferred some company." 'Caenorhabditis elegans' is much better than Darth Plagueis at cheating death. "Don't **** with the Jedi Master, son!" Mark Hamill, CE
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Cobranaconda Title: Ex-FF-UK: South CR Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 1/3/06 4:03pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I want Snape to be evil, because I like Snape, but he isn't, I think. Dumbledore is dead, has to be. I mean, no one survived the killing curse before Harry, and Dumbledore says that Harry is more important than he. Also, if the spell didn't kill him, not even Dumbledore could manage to shield himself from the ground after falling a few hundred foot. -----signature----- "We find that your American beer is a little like making love in a canoe." "Making love in a canoe?" "It's ****ing close to water."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jairen Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '00	Date Posted: 1/3/06 4:40pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I think that Dorkman has a pretty good handle on this issue as well. Snape, whilst responsible for killing Dumbledore, was clearly not interested in killing Harry, but training him to do what he needs to do in the future. He could have killed Harry easily in the running battle to escape, but he made every effort to give him further training. Dumbledore is dead, I think. Not only was there no way he could have survived the Avada Kadavra curse, but his painting was already hung in the headmaster's office at the end of the book, with Dumbledore in it but asleep. For this very reason I don't think Dumbledore is "gone" even though he is dead. I think that his painting will have information for Harry, especially information regarding Snape, in the next book. -----signature----- "How am I gonna get a girl? I drive around in a garbage truck!" - Hellboy Me in a film: http://copperraven.com/movies/ahoweb.wmv
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
CodeName_Targeter Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 1/3/06 5:14pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I think that Dumbledore had to die in order for Harry to step out of his shadow and become his own person, even if he is still loyal to Dumbledore. As for Snape, I believe that he is evil. I'm not sure why, but it's just a gut feeling. For 5 books, we've been thinking "he's bad!!" only to be told that he's good. So when he is reveal to be bad, I think that he's bad for good. Or else, Snape would've tried to explain things to the Order. -----signature----- XWFC: Wraith Leader and Senator - Starfighter Draft Winner Ravenclaw ftw! Doppleganger of Suzuki_Akira and Vod'ika to Valin_Halcyon Dragged back to the forums for the SFD by Jello. Look out!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
PadmeLeiaJaina Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 1/3/06 5:19pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I've long since given up deciding whether Snape is good or bad. First reading I was flat out convinced that he was still working w/ Dumbledore and that it was Harry's usual prejudice getting in the way from understanding what happened. Second reading of the book, I decided that Snape was loyal to Voldermort all along. Curse JK for leaving us w/ such a grey subject to debate about for years while we wait for the next book I do believe that Dumbledore is dead. She's been very good about following traditional mythology which always makes sure that the hero must ultimately face his mortal enemy alone w/o the assistance of his great master/teacher. I think Dumbledore might still be available to talk to through his portrait in the headmaster's office, but other than that - he's not coming back. -----signature----- Check out my STAR WARS Fan Site! http://www.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/ Join my Sarah Connor Chronicles board! http://tsccsociety.proboards52.com/
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
han_solo_321 Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 1/3/06 5:47pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Well after reading that part I had no idea what to think. He might be evil and he might not be. -----signature----- Star Wars IS Forever! SW 3 Revenge Of The Sith IS the best star wars movie! Return of the King is the best NON SW Movie Ever made! Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic is the BEST game ever made! LOST is the Best TV Show Ever!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
jedi_master_ousley Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/3/06 8:19pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I've said since literally hours after the book came out that Snape is still a good guy. In fact, this is what I posted at the COS forums from right after I finished reading the book: Is Snape evil, or was that scene a setup with Dumbledore? I think it was definitely a setup. There are too many clues that Snape is a “good guy” for him to have killed Dumbledore out of hatred. Snape had no choice but to kill Dumbledore because of the Unbreakable Vow. Say what you will, but I don't think that he would have done this had he not already had it in the back of his mind that he had to kill Dumbledore. He said that he would protect Draco and only complete Draco's task if Draco was going to fail and/or was in danger. Neither was the case at that moment. He was not in danger - Harry was inaminate, Dumbledore was disarmed, and only Death Eaters could climb the stairs. Dumbledore clearly trusted Snape with his life. It also seems likely, then that he would trust Snape to take his life it meant the Death Eaters or even Voldemort himself would not have the pleasure of doing so. His last words of "Severus... please..." could have been him pleading to kill him, not to save him. Snape's look of revulsion, of course, could be for what he had to do. Snape would have then "proven" his allegiances to Voldemort. By killing Dumbledore, Snape has destroyed "the only one he ever feared." This would make Snape very trusted by Voldemort - perhaps even enough to be trusted with the knowledge of the Hocruxess. This could be valuable knowledge to Harry in his quest to discover the remaining four. Also note that Snape attempted to help Harry prepare for battle with the Death Eaters by stressing the importance of nonverbal spells. Then, when Harry was being attacked, Snape yelled "blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!" Clearly, he was warning Harry to shut off his mind from any attempts at Legilimens/Occulemency (sp?) and also stressing the importance of nonverbal spells. How can Snape prove his loyalty to Dumbledore without Harry going ballistic? Simple. The pensive. The book stated that Dumbledore's office was the same as it was before his death - meaning it is likely that the pensive was still there. Surely Dumbledore would have recorded any memories of telling Snape to kill him, which the rest could then watch and learn the truth. Also note that Snape outright lied in Chapter 2. He said that he believed Harry could be the next Dark Lord, which, of course, was totally untrue. He always treated Harry like crap. There's also the issue of the conversation Hagrid overheard in which Snape didn't want to follow Dumbledore's orders - perhaps he did not want to kill the only one who ever trusted him. What's interesting is that I always believed Snape to be evil UNTIL I read this book. Dumbledore's unwavering faith in him mixed with the fact that Dumbledore made Harry promise to abandom him if it meant saving his own life convinced me that Snape did it because Dumledore wanted him to. This shows not only that Dumbledore has great faith in those close to him, but that Snape was unwavering in his allegiance to Dumbledore. This could definitely set up a situation in which Harry is once again slapped in the face with the fact that Snape is a good guy, and it could force them to work together to find the remaining Horcruxes. It would force Harry to show the type of faith in people that Dumbledore often showed. In a sense, Harry would take Dumbledore's place as the one who stands against the Ministry's ideals yet is on the same side, and who is the only one the wizarding community believes is great enough to confront and defeat Voldemort. -----signature----- I steal candy from babies to prevent childhood obesity.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Dark Lady Mara Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 1/3/06 11:06pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers) - Date Edited: 1/3/06 11:11pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Dark Lady Mara
	Excellent points, mousley. Agreed on all of them. (Don't you love how the people who insist Snape is evil never have any sort of logical argument to back it up while we have this entire mountain of evidence?) A few more points I can think of: - Dumbledore would never plead for his own life. He doesn't fear death. He is on record as having said in one of the earlier books that he sees death as "the next great adventure." - Hagrid overheard Snape and Dumbledore arguing in the forest and said it sounded like Snape was feeling "overworked." Now what might Dumbledore have ordered him to do that he would want to refuse, eh? Also note that he never would have argued with Dumbledore if he truly were evil and intended to betray him on the tower - Severus Snape is not a stupid man, and if were a sleeper agent seeking to maintain Dumbledore's complete trust until the end, he would never give these sorts of signs of wavering loyalty. His arguing with Dumbledore can only demonstrate that he's on Dumbledore's side. - The book explicitly mentions that Snape's hand shakes when Narcissa asks him to agree to complete Draco's mission, then reminds us (and Snape) that Bellatrix is still watching. He has no choice but to agree to this vow whether he wants to or not. I have a suspicion he may not have known what the mission was at all - notice that he never says anything explicit about it, merely suggests that he's already in on it and then waits for the women to provide more information? Classic spy tactic. "Oh, yeah, of course I'm in on the plan. Um, what's the plan again?" - It was only one chapter earlier that Harry was hating himself for what he was doing to Dumbledore, and yet he can't comprehend that perhaps Snape's reason for being angry is he's been put in a similar position of being ordered to hurt someone he cares about? Besides, we all know that even if one's heart isn't in it, one must be 100% emotionally invested in the outcome of an unforgiveable curse for it to work. Bellatrix said as much in OotP. -----signature----- "Mara hath spoken," said Kyp. (that's a funny way to end my posts, rite? LUL) I LOVE HAT! JCC hat > life itself! http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org http://www.thehungersite.com SPOILER-FREE TILLLL EPISODE IV ~ "there aren't that many Ls in til." - farraday
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 - ~~Previous~~ | Next | Reload

Jedi Council Forums » Science Fiction and Fantasy » SFF: Books and Comics »