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Author	Topic: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
JediNemesis Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 1/16/06 2:45am Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	And that will teach me to look at the name rather than the colours. It's not even as if you have the same ones . . . -----signature----- BeTS Best Author '08 NEW Eleven Summers - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29657584 Lightning and Diamonds - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29251762 Into The Shining Day - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29224914
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ElfinArcher Registered: Dec '05	Date Posted: 1/20/06 1:13pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Jumping in a bit late here, but ... Figured I'd add some thoughts. Lord_Ogli posted: Maybe Dumbledore captured a death eater, gave him some polyjuice potion and was controling him witht the Imperious curse as a decoy While I would LOVE for this to be the case, the fact is, Dumbledore turns up in his painting in the Headmaster's room at the end of the book, leading us to believe that he really is dead. Which, I must say, was QUITE a shock! I'm inclined to agree very much with Ousley, Mara and Dorkman's theories. Upon first reading, I felt that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him because he knew he was going to die anyway, and what better way to gain access to Voldemort's inner circle and redeem himself to gear up for the final battle than to kill Voldemort's most powerful opponent? To the end, Dumbledore trusted Snape. And while Dumbledore can be seen as a doddery old fool, I think he knew a LOT more than he let on. Snape, I believe, was acting to challenge Harry to step out of the shadow of being "the boy who lived" and become "the boy who did something about it." He IS surprised by Harry's skill in HBP, and in my head, he thinks, "okay, so maybe this kid isn't the idiot I thought he was." Snape hates Harry because of all the **** James &c. put Snape through in their years together. Some teachers carry grudges, and often take them out on the kids of the people they're mad at (unfortunately, I've seen this at play in real life, so that's why I think that it's the way it is in the fiction world). Anyway. That's my thoughts. I'm expecting surprises in the 7th book. A part of me really wants to see Draco redeemed, but... We'll see. Rowling's the writer, not me. -----signature----- For Alana
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JediNemesis Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 4/11/06 12:24pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Upping as there's still interest - and why not? We haven't unravelled half the enigmas yet. -----signature----- BeTS Best Author '08 NEW Eleven Summers - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29657584 Lightning and Diamonds - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29251762 Into The Shining Day - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29224914
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PadmeLeiaJaina Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/11/06 9:05pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	JediNemesis posted: How much you want to bet that's a spell that Snape spent a lifetime wanting to use on someone. Seeing Harry cast it properly made him realize that perhaps the boy DOES have talent. I hadn't thought of that. "For Enemies"? Wonder if young Severus spent lessons itching to rip holes in James Potter? I'm in the process of re-reading the books and just finished OOTP. If you read the Snapes Worst Memory chapter - there is a moment where Snape casts a spell that causes James's face to develop a cut. Here is JK at her best foreshadowing things to come. We now know after reading HBP what that "for enemies" spell does to "enemies." You'll note however that when Snape casts the spell at James, it doesn't leave that large of a scar or is hardly noticeable and James is able to continue to torment his favorite object of ridicule. Flash forward to Harry blasting Malfoy with the spell, Harry nearly kills Malfoy and leaves him wounded and bleeding from all points. It is at this moment that Snape finally shows a brief moment of respect for Harry. Perhaps a part of it was that he was impressed to see his own spell being properly used, but ultimately it was a moment where Snape finally realized that Harry has real power within himself. Harry was able to cast a spell created by Snape, that he himself was unable to fully master to its fullest potential. Is Snape evil? One thing we always have to remember with these books is that they are all seen through Harry's eyes. Even the few times we're shown things when Harry's not around, they still cast the characters in a light that would not be contrary to how Harry would perceive them. Take for example the opening when Snape makes the Unbreakable vow w/ Cissy. Snape is, as always, completely unreadable. He goes along with everything that Cissy and Bella say - and readily has canned, perfect answers for Bella's questions. The scene can be viewed differently depending on which eyes you're viewing it with. If you see it as "Snape is evil" you just see that he's been a rat all along. The problem is that Snape is rarely as he appears. Over and over he shows a strict, sardonically sadistic side to Harry whenever he's in trouble. To Harry, Snape is his bitter enemy and he has little real reason for seeing him any differently. Harry always needs to be told that Snapes actions were as such because he couldn't reveal what he was really thinking or going to do at the time without fear of being exposed (like when he failed to react when Harry hinted about Sirius being held at the MOM in OOTP.) I still don't know what to think of Snape, other than his taunting Harry as he was running off of the Hogwarts property about his inability to master unspoken spells was completely out of character for Snape. At least out of character for him as Harry views him. Why would Snape still seem to want to drive one last lesson home in Harry's head if he was Voldermort's right-hand man? Ultimately, it's because there's still more to the Snape riddle than has been revealed to us. Harry's own blinding hatred of the man has prevented us to truly see and better understand Snape's intentions. There were many, many times that Snape could've sat back and done NOTHING and Voldermort could've easily won. Had Snape not alerted the Order that Harry was about to fly off into Voldermort's trap at the MOM - Harry and his friends would've all died. Dumbledore is not infallible and it is possible that he misplaced his faith in Snape, however, I think that all has yet to be revealed over why he was so completely convinced that Snape was no longer loyal to Voldermort. One simple fact blared warning klaxons everywhere - he gave Snape the DADA position, even though he tells Harry flat out that the position is cursed and that he knows whoever holds that seat won't be there at the end of the year. If he's well certain of this, why would he give the job to Snape??? Was it because Snape told him about the Unbreakable Vow and Dumbledore and he both realized that one way or another Snape had moved himself into a corner that he couldn't get out of? Why not let him teach his favorite subject after many years of service? Again these are things that HARRY fails to consider and ponder because of his own prejudice against Snape. Is Snape bad? I still don't know. It's easy to read HBP and just give into the simple facts that Snape killed Dumbledore and ran away like a coward. It's easy to want to believe Harry's prejudiced opinions of Snape and that the man cannot be redeemed. It's also easy to want to believe in Snape, to wish to prove Harry wrong. Guess we'll just have to wait to see how it turns out. -----signature----- Check out my STAR WARS Fan Site! http://www.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/ Join my Sarah Connor Chronicles board! http://tsccsociety.proboards52.com/
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Lord_Ogli Title: •Former FF-UK:N CR FF-UK Trivia Winner Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 4/12/06 5:57am Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	2 more points came to me. Not from my beliefs, just trying to see all angles. 1. Snape may have just been trying to taunt not teach with all his comments on keeping mouth and mind closed. Rubbing it in that Harry has trouble mastering these abilities and is therefor weak. 2. DD may have given Snape the DADA job to get rid of the curse. He may have believed that Voldemort would have wanted to keep his spy at Hogwarts and would therefor lift the curse to alloow this to happen. -----signature----- M.I.A
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Lord_NoONE Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 4/12/06 8:08am Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Snape is not evil. He is not good. He's an amoral force that threw his lot in with Tom after the gig was up. Snape tries to play both sides for his own advantage. That's all Snape has ever been about: himself. He's no friends and he's not liked by many people at all. Hence, he sided with Tom initially and then once Tom was defeated he sided again with the forces of good. Once he heard Tom returned he went back as a "spy." However, he admits that he gave information to Tom and to DD. He was biding his time until it became clear which side would prevail. I don't think he would have killed DD under any other circumstances than those in HBP. His hand had to be forced. He was in a position to solidify his place at Tom's side and in his opinion, guarantee Tom's ultimate victory. He believes that Harry is not really that great of a wizard and is not special at all. He believes that if DD is dead then Tom will win. In other words, Snape is an opportunistic individual who saw a chance to "guarantee" his glory and increased power. He rode the fence until the "tipping point" where he had to make a choice and ally himself with one side or another. Unfortunately, the tipping point was killing DD in book six. Snape is not evil; instead, he's thoroughly amoral who allied himself with evil only because it furthered his own lust for power.
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RedHanded_Jill Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 4/14/06 8:04am Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Snape is the archetype of the evil figure with a good heart. Every story has one. A bad guy that turns good. Just like Star Wars, the villain is not Darth Vader, its the emperor. DV is the same archetype as Snape. -----signature----- Life is a highway... And I want to drive it all nite long.
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 4/15/06 10:08am Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	Actually, isn't that more like Wormtail? I can see him doing the Vader/Gollum thing at the end more than Snape.
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PadmeLeiaJaina Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/18/06 10:52am Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I'm rereading HBP as we speak and even though I'm not yet at the end, I'm convinced more than ever that Snape's hand was forced into doing what he did at the end of the book. The first chapter has him being visited by an angry Bella and sobbing Narcissia. Both would've been too distraught to try to cast magic on Snape to discover if he was lying to them or not. Snape states that the Dark Lord "filled him in on everything" and that he was his closest confident. What do we know from Harry's lessons w/ Dumbledore? Voldermort HAS no close confidents. Even if (and very likely he did) Snape brought back info to Voldermort about Dumbledore's doings, Voldermort wouldn't have filled him in on all of his own plotting and scheming - it would've given away his own power, needlessly. You'll note that when Narcissia starts to mention what's going on with Draco, Snape puts on a huge air that he knows all and for several moments, he hesitates before agreeing to the Unbreakable Vow. If he was going to further "prove" his loyalty to Voldermort, making the vow was the best way to do it - even blindly. At Slughorn's party, Snape confronts Draco and asks to be let in on his secret plans...he doesn't know what Draco is up to. In the forest when Hagrid overhears Snape and Dumbledore arguing it's about Snape's inability to uncover what Draco is up to. Finally at the end of the book, the look of revulsion comes over Snapes face when he realizes completely what he has to do in order to complete the unbreakable vow. He's disgusted at himself for not realizing what he'd gotten himself into in the first place. I'm not yet at the end, but in hindsight, that's how I'm seeing things now. -----signature----- Check out my STAR WARS Fan Site! http://www.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/ Join my Sarah Connor Chronicles board! http://tsccsociety.proboards52.com/
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mandragora Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/18/06 1:28pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers) - Date Edited: 4/18/06 1:32pm (1 edits total) Edited By: mandragora
	I won't believe that Snape will turn out to be on Voldemort's side until I read a definitive confirmation in book 7 for one reason that to me is crucial: Harry Potter (much like Star Wars) is a mythological tale, and it's primary target audience are children and young adolescents. And as such, the messages conveyed are the decisive issue. Now what would these messages be if Snape turned out to be on Voldemort's side? It would mean that Dumbledore was a fool for trusting a former death eater, and it cost him his life. And the messages implied would be: - Don't give someone who once fell for the dark side and tells you he will change his life a second chance. - Never trust anyone who's taken the wrong path before ever again. - Evil once, evil forever. These shouldn't and cannot be the implications conveyed in one of the most popular contemporary mythological tales, when it comes to me. -----signature----- “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” —Friedrich Nietzsche
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 4/19/06 6:00pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	mandragora posted: I won't believe that Snape will turn out to be on Voldemort's side until I read a definitive confirmation in book 7 for one reason that to me is crucial: Harry Potter (much like Star Wars) is a mythological tale, and it's primary target audience are children and young adolescents. And as such, the messages conveyed are the decisive issue. Now what would these messages be if Snape turned out to be on Voldemort's side? It would mean that Dumbledore was a fool for trusting a former death eater, and it cost him his life. And the messages implied would be: - Don't give someone who once fell for the dark side and tells you he will change his life a second chance. - Never trust anyone who's taken the wrong path before ever again. - Evil once, evil forever. These shouldn't and cannot be the implications conveyed in one of the most popular contemporary mythological tales, when it comes to me. "I never think in terms of What am I going to teach them? Or, What would it be good for them to find out here?" -- J.K. Rowling More quotes by her can be found here if you want them.
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wild_karrde Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 4/20/06 6:54pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I thought it was painfully obvious that Snape had made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore years ago to do whatever it took to not break his cover, hence he basically had no choice but to kill Dumbledore or he would have broken both Unbreakable Vows. But either way, as long as Allan Rickman keeps playing him in the movies he'll be my fave HP character.
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plo_koom Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 4/21/06 9:50pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	AmberStarbright posted: I think Snape is good, basically for the reasons above. Especially when Dumbledore was bad to sound like he was pleading with Snape, he isn't the type of man to beg for his life. Dumbledore was pleading for Snape to kill him, it took all of Snapes courage to kill his leader, and the look of hatred and utter revulsion was quite fitting... how would you feel if he forced you to do something so horrible? It's no wonder Snape doesn't want to be called a coward and he fled from the scene with a look of pain and agony. -----signature----- You just lost "the game"
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TheBoogieMan Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 4/22/06 6:19pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers)
	I don't believe Dumbledore had Snape make an unbreakable vow at any stage. It just isn't his style. If Dumbledore believes someone, he believes them. He's not going to make them take a magical vow to be sure.
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mandragora Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/23/06 4:15am Subject: RE: Harry Potter: The Headmaster and the Half-Blood Prince (MAJOR Book 6 Spoilers) - Date Edited: 4/23/06 4:31am (1 edits total) Edited By: mandragora
	Darth-Ghost posted: "I never think in terms of What am I going to teach them? Or, What would it be good for them to find out here?" -- J.K. Rowling I think it happens easily that this quote is misinterpreted if it is quoted out of context. If you watch the interview on disk II of the COS DVD (where she talks about that topic) it is made very clear that she doesn't want to tell people what to think literally ("that's today's lesson") but she is also very clear that she does have messages and opinions she wants to convey through her story, like, as she mentions explicitly there, her views on racism (the pure blood issue). So while she doesn't intend to teach people I don't think that implies there are no messages to it. -----signature----- “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” —Friedrich Nietzsche
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