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Author	Topic: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
harpuah Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 2/17/08 3:11am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion - Date Edited: 2/17/08 3:13am (2 edits total) Edited By: harpuah
	Am I a bad person If I truly believe that "twilight" is a government altered Riley Finn? God, I hated Riley -----signature----- The person who stands up and says, 'This is stupid,' either is asked to behave or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful 'Yes, we know! Isn't it terrific?'
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 2/17/08 11:23am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	Some people have thought that. The only other person who could even remotely come to mind is Hank Summers or someone else who has close ties to Buffy. We know that someone will betray her in the worst possible way. If it isn't Dawn looking to be reverted back into her normal size, it's someone that she'd never expect to betray her. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 2/29/08 11:08am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	Get ready for your first look at issue sixteen's cover by Jo Chen, featuring a shocking surprise. Buffy vs Fray! -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Healer_Leona Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/29/08 2:50pm Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	I hope Twilight isn't Riley. I thought him pretty lame as well. I did find A Beautiful Sunset and thoroughly enjoyed that. Ooooh, love that cover and look forward to the issue. -----signature----- To me, you're strange and you're beautiful, You'd be so perfect with me but you just can't see, You turn every head but you don't see me.
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Sniper_Wolf Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 3/1/08 11:03am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	darth-sinister posted: Get ready for your first look at issue sixteen's cover by Jo Chen, featuring a shocking surprise. Buffy vs Fray! Sexy. Main reason I've been interested in season eight is the eventual connections to Fray. -----signature----- Winner of a Super Golden Ewok™ award. I name you Sword of the Jedi. Always you shall be in the front rank, a burning brand to your enemies, a brilliant fire to your friends.
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PerfectCell Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 3/2/08 3:16pm Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion - Date Edited: 3/2/08 3:18pm (2 edits total) Edited By: PerfectCell
	Unless it's a flashback or a prophecy dream of some kind then I don't like that at all, I'm generally not in favor of stories that bridge that amount of time in a universe that doesn't really support that notion. As for the series so far, I'm not the biggest fan of what I have read so far, The Long Way Home. Much like Fray and most of his other comic work, Joss seems to have a hard time relating the plot, characters, and feelings through words and pictures. His writing was so good on the TV show because the actors were there to emote every little detail, and you just don't get that out of any of his comic writing. It's also tad bit too breezy, moves too fast, and has some lines and parts that don't make much sense. But, even with all of that it is still a good read. It's not a perfect book by any means, but then again I have never thought of Joss as an Alan Moore or Kurt Busiek in terms of the comics medium. It's fun, and hopefully I believe the story is taking me somewhere and I actually do like Buffy's new take on some things, and it's refreshing to see the characters again. -----signature----- "When you have reached the end of the road then you can decide whether to go to the left or the right, to fire or to water. If you make those decisions before you have even set foot upon the road it will take you nowhere." - Galen
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Jedi_Master_Adara Registered: Feb '08	Date Posted: 3/7/08 10:19am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	They really shouldn't have taken it beyond the movie. It just doesn't work.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 3/7/08 11:55am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion - Date Edited: 3/7/08 12:16pm (1 edits total) Edited By: darth-sinister
	PerfectCell posted: Unless it's a flashback or a prophecy dream of some kind then I don't like that at all, I'm generally not in favor of stories that bridge that amount of time in a universe that doesn't really support that notion. As for the series so far, I'm not the biggest fan of what I have read so far, The Long Way Home. Much like Fray and most of his other comic work, Joss seems to have a hard time relating the plot, characters, and feelings through words and pictures. His writing was so good on the TV show because the actors were there to emote every little detail, and you just don't get that out of any of his comic writing. It's also tad bit too breezy, moves too fast, and has some lines and parts that don't make much sense. Whedon actually addressed that on Newsarama yesterday. NRAMA: So doing the comic book series was basically going back as “fresh” as you could possibly be to the characters? JW: It was. The joy of that was that I had forgotten how much fun it was to write for these people, and it’s thanks to Georges that it is “these people” that I’m writing for. At the same time, it was “Year One” again. Because it’s a new medium, we were finding our footing. What do people really need from this story, this Season? Big action, romance, the likenesses? What was it that was really going to make it pop for the readers? I look at the first trade and think it’s a swell yarn, and I knew where I was going and what is coming in the rest of the season, but I feel that there’s emotional depth that we really haven’t started to reach yet. Now, as we’re getting into the second year of the series, I feel that we’re really starting to dig and find those depths that we just dented in our “pilot.” We’re no longer just scratching the surface. It’s even more fun now. As to what happened in this issue, Whedon speaks with Newsarama about it and everything else Buffy. Spoilers for those who haven't read it yet. Both in the link and down below. Buffy sleeps with Satsu. NRAMA: With this story, there’s a large character step for Buffy here in that she takes another Slayer as a lover. Was that your plan originally, or something Drew included in his story? JW: What it was is that I had introduced the character and the dynamic that one of the Slayers was in love with Buffy, and we went to the place that we often will of - it would be fun to see her dancing around it a little bit: “I am pretty lonely, she is pretty hot, and she really likes me. I trust her, we’re all out here, I’m an open-minded gal…and did I mention that she really likes me?” We thought we could have a little fun playing with her thinking about that, and Drew took the point of view that it plays a lot better if it just happens. NRAMA: And any thinking about it has to come after the fact… JW: Right. Rather than just being coy about it, and the whole “will they/won’t they?” Just have it happen, and then have them be coy about it. Awkwardly, nakedly, coy. Have all the silly fun of the French farce where everyone runs into the room, and then have the genuine emotion of “Did I use this person? Did I manipulate this person?” And they’re both thinking that. They’re both wondering if they’re going to get hurt or if they’re going to hurt the other person, and whether or not they should have done it. Not due to any moral reason or anything. It’s not a huge life change for Buffy. She’s not gay. Sexuality is a spectrum. Many of us have experimented in our youth – that’s what youths are for. So we knew it wasn’t going to be a giant character shift – it was just going to be nice fodder for Buffy to be going through something besides feeling lonely and disconnected and having the weight of the world on her shoulders. It was nice for something nice to happen to her, and then for her to get kind of awkward about it. Yeah – we liked the arena, and it was Drew who pushed for it just to happen. And I liked to not have to go “In the next issue…the kiss which proves she’s heterosexual!” like they do on TV. I like that it all just happened. NRAMA: Which meant that there was not much build up to it in the issue or even in the series… JW: Not really. When we decided that it was going to happen, and that there was going to be a standalone issue before it, I instantly went in and wrote the standalone story to tee everyone up so it wouldn’t be completely out of character. Anyone who read issue #11 would go, “Oh yeah – this could actually have happened,” not “Wow – these guys must be desperate….or desperately lonely.” NRAMA: Speaking of that standalone issue and the purpose it served, do you feel almost a…responsibility for these types of moments, that you have to have a hand in them? JW: Yeah – as I said, it’s my job to make it coherent, and to facilitate whatever people have planned, within the confines of whatever it is that I have planned. In this situation, it is my responsibility to fill in the cracks and make sure it all flows. I encourage people to go off on side tracks. But for #11, it just fell out that we had the extra issue in the line up, and started wondering if we needed one issue after the story, or one before Drew’s arc. Both the dictates of the artists’ schedule and the publishing ended up that it had to come before so it was a situation where I sat down with Drew and asked him what he needed. I knew what I planned to do, but we could work it out together so the one flowed into the other. So in other words, Buffy's not gay. She just did something that she didn't put much thought into, but knows that like with Spike, it could get out of hand. That's why she wonders if she used her and Satsu wonders if she did likewise. Jedi_Master_Adara posted: They really shouldn't have taken it beyond the movie. It just doesn't work. Seven seasons, five seasons of a spin-off, countless books, comics, philosophical classes, a TV-movie in development, four video games and countless other merchendise. I assume you mean the series and not the film. The film didn't work. The series did. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 3/12/08 10:42am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	New announcement. SPIKE GETS AN OFFICIAL STORY IN SPIKE: AFTER THE FALL It’s a good time in comics for fans of Joss Whedon’s Buffy-verse. Dark Horse is telling of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer’s adventures following the conclusion of her television series and IDW’s Angel: After the Fall is officially continuing that character’s story post Season Five of the television series’ finale. But what about Spike? Does his official (read: approved by Whedon) story get explored and told anywhere? While the character has appeared in Angel: After the Fall, there were certainly some questions left unanswered. Those burning questions will be answered in Spike: After the Fall miniseries launching in July from IDW, by Brian Lynch and Franco Urru. As for the continuity…hang on… Angel: After the Fall #6, #7 and #8 tell stories of how the cast of characters was affected by the fight in the alley that ended the series. Issue #6 will feature Spike, Connor and Lorne; issue #7 will feature Wesley and a surprise return of a character from the Whedonverse; while issue #8 will feature Gwen, the effect of LA being thrust into hell on the city’s residents, and the fate of Gunn. Issue #9 will pick up from the cliffhanger at the end of issue #5, and will feature the new art team of Nick Runge and Art Lyon. #8 and #9 will both ship in June. Spike: After the Fall will spin out of the “First Night” events seen in Angel: After the Fall and events in issue #7, and tells of Spike’s first few months in hell and co-stars Illyria. Spike: After the Fall will run four issues. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Healer_Leona Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 3/13/08 2:52am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	Sweet!! BTW, love your sig. -----signature----- To me, you're strange and you're beautiful, You'd be so perfect with me but you just can't see, You turn every head but you don't see me.
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Healer_Leona Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 3/30/08 7:35pm Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	We seriously need some real discussion in this thread. What about that last Buffy issue? I thought it the absolute best. Form one of the first frames where Xander has the perfect hand gestures, that cuased me to pause, lol and sigh with memories of the series. Poor Buffy. Nothing like being dragged into the spotlight before even getting the chance to get things settled in your mind. Drac is back. That is so awesome! lol -----signature----- To me, you're strange and you're beautiful, You'd be so perfect with me but you just can't see, You turn every head but you don't see me.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 3/31/08 11:40am Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	Sorry, I haven't been able to update in a while. But this Sunday I will, promise. It'll be a big one as well. I'll be reviewing recent issues of Buffy and Angel, as well, "Spike: Old Times". -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 4/12/08 1:27pm Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion - Date Edited: 4/12/08 1:28pm (1 edits total) Edited By: darth-sinister
	Tales Of The Vampires by Joss Whedon, Jane Espenson, Drew Goddard, Cliff Richards, Jeph Loeb, Sam Loeb, Ben Edlund and various artists. In 2004, Whedon and company wrote a mini-series anthology. Here is that story. It is the early 20th century London. A group of children are being trained to be the next generation of Watchers. Among them is Edna Fairweather. The children as part of their training must spend time with a vampire named Roche who is a captive of the Watchers. He will tell them tales from across time of vampires and Slayers. -"Father". In 1922, a father is attacked by a vampire and is sired. But rather than killing his son, he opts to raise him despite not having a soul. Over the course of years, we see how the father deals with his son and the relationship they have, ending in 2003 with the arrival of a Slayer. -"Dust Bowl". It is 1933 and the dust bowl has occured in the US, on top of the depression. A young boy named Joe Cooper is sired and finds himself unaware of who he is and what his life will be like now. -"Find The Vampire". An old poem brought to life as a single frame drawing. -"Jack". 1888 London and Jack The Ripper is on the loose. Only Inspector Whitcomb of Scotland Yard can track him down, but he harbors a dark secret of his own. -"Stacy". A young girl named Stacy explains to us the nature of being alone and eventually becoming connected to life...by becoming a vampire. -"Dames". 1930's Las Vegas and a vampire finds himself intrigued by a mystery woman. -"The Trouble With Vampires". Prauge, 1997. Spike is on a rampage in Prauge as he and Drusilla are attacked by the locals in and are separated. We learn the story of why Drusilla was weak in season two. -"Some Like It Hot". A vampire seeks to find a way to walk around in the daylight, by having the same surgery that James did in "Heartthrob" in season three. -"Taking Care Of Business". A vampire from the 15th century has gone mad from what happened during his time as an inquisitor. Now, he thinks that he is an agent of God who will destroy all other clergymen for their belief in a God who has doubt. -"Antiques". Romainia, 2004. Buffy, Kira and another Slayer confront Dracula in order to free Xander Harris. During the fight with Dracula, we learn how depressed and dispondent Dracula has become in the years since we last saw him, as well as his becoming famous thanks to Bram Stoker. -"Numb." Sunnydale, 1998. Angel must face his inner demons as the First Evil begins to attack Angel in his sleep. As Edna and the other students listen to Roche's stories, Edna begins to become suspicious of Roche as she believes that he is hiding something. And her actions here will shape the future of the Watchers and the Slayer line for generations to come. TOTV was the last official Buffy and Angel story to be written until recently. We are given a wide range of stories from various writers of both shows, as well as new talent. Sadly, this would be one of the few stories written by Sam Loeb, son of comic and film writer/producer Jeph Loeb before his untimely death from cancer a few years ago. The story holds a big place in the canon of Buffy due to the main story, "Tales Of The Vampires" and because of "Antiques" which is refered to on issue #13 of "Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Twilight-Wolves At The Gate". Hence this review. "Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Wolves At The Gate" Part 1. by Drew Goddard, Georges Jeantry, Andy Owens and Joss Whedon. Willow brings Andrew to stay at the castle, but no sooner than they arrive then Willow is knocked out without Andrew knowing it. Meanwhile, Xander and Renee are on watch and notice fog rolling in. Along with wolves, bees and panthers. Concerned, they go to wake up Buffy only to find her and Satsu in a compromising position. Soon, an attack is launched on the castle by vampires with bizarre abilities. The vampires in question take the Scythe and disappear. Realizing that there is something familiar about these vampires, Xander is sent to discover the source of these abilities. Count Dracula. This is the now infamous and controversial issue of Buffy. Namely, Buffy sleeping with Satsu. Sarah Michelle Gellar had learned just moments prior to the recent Buffy reunion at the Pasely Center, not only of season eight by Whedon, but also what was done with her character. She was surprised to say the least. Despite the controversy, the story follows all the basics of an episode of Buffy. Goddard shows that despite the time, like Whedon, he still has it when it comes to writing Whedonese. One of the highlights is when Xander and the others discover what Buffy and Satsu were up to. He manages recreate the sutble and slapstick humor from "The Girl In Question" from Angel, while making it work without the actors. We also have more Andrew goodness as he is one of Goddard's favorite characters to work with. "Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Wolves At The Gate" Part 2. by Drew Goddard, Georges Jeantry, Andy Owens and Joss Whedon. At Dracula's castle, Xander and Renee catch up with Dracula while Andrew explains to the rest of the Slayers the relationship between the two. Following Anya's death and moving to Scotland, Xander spent time with Dracula as seen in "Antiques". Thus explaining why he was there. Dracula soon discovers the truth behind the empowered vampires and vows to destroy them for manipulating him. Meanwhile, after contacting Akio who is following Radion and Toru in Japan, Buffy rallies all the Slayers and Willow to go to Tokyo. While Satsu is worried that this might not be a good thing. And with good reason as we and Akio discover, thanks to Kumiko's master plan which is revealed. Goddard continues to show his love for the Buffy characters and manages balance between humor and drama just as we saw on the series. Good character moments come when from Willow talking with Satsu and Xander's relationship with Dracula. "Angel: After The Fall" Part 4 by Joss Whedon, Brian Lynch and Franco Urru. When we last left him, Angel's condition has been revealed. He is now mortal and has been struggling for the last few months with it, while trying to fight the good fight. We learn that the night of the fight in the alleyway, the Senior Partners took Angel from the battle and turned him human, before depositing him on a rooftop a few blocks away. Unfortunately, he finds out the hard way that he's mortal. And it is the incorporeal Wesley who has been aiding him in pulling off this chrade. Now with his challenge in place, Angel has to prepare what will be his most difficult battle ever. Wesley and Angel head to Silver Lake to ask for help from Lorne and find Grooslaug will offer his assistance. Meanwhile, Gunn returns to Wolfram & Hart for the first time since that night and exacts his revenge. Elsewhere, Spike comes to a decision regarding his future in apocalyptic L.A. Another good issue as we learn where Lorne has gotten to and the return of Groo is a welcome one. The story of how Angel survived makes the most sense, especially given what was revealed last issue. It puts Angel in the worst possible position as he finally has what he has always wanted, yet it couldn't come at a worse time. Only unlike last time, he cannot undo it so simply. Sure, he could allow himself to be sired but without Willow to curse him, all he would do is unleash Angelus again. And even if he could be a vampire again, what is to stop the Senior Partners from undoing it all over again. Overall a good issue. "Angel: After The Fall" Part 5 by Joss Whedon, Brian Lynch and Franco Urru. Wesley is in the white room with the Senior Partners now. Though we do not see them, for the first time, we hear them without the conduit's presence. We learn why Wesley was chosen and that the Senior Partners still have a plan for Angel. Meanwhile, Angel arrives to face the champion of the demon Lord Burge and after attempting to explain to the humans why they're in this mess, Angel prepares for battle. But he is soon joined by his allies, while Gunn watches from above. Unfortunately after torturing Wesley, the Senior Partners send him to the battle and at the most inopportune moment. By far and away the biggest shocker comes from the revelation that Illyria's recent behavior problems and the return of her time powers, as well as the return of Fred Burkle make for one hellva cliffhanger as the story moves into "First Night". "Angel: After The Fall-First Night" Part 1 by Joss Whedon, Brian Lynch, David Menssia, John Byrne, Tim Kane and Stephan Mooney. Flashback to "Not Fade Away". Angel, Gunn, Illyria and Spike were cornered in the alley behind the Hyperion Hotel. Facing off against a horde of demons, a centur and a dragon. Conner was on the run. Lorne had quit after killing Lynsey MacDonald. Nina was leaving the country with her sister and niece. In issue four, we learn how Angel survived. Now, we learn how the rest did. Spike finds himself going from the alley to a rooftop minutes after the fight began, healed and whole. Laughing at how he was able to survive, his attention is soon drawn to a familiar looking figure lying prone. Fred Burkle. But after reuniting and confirming it's her, then she changes into Illyria to fight a group of demons. Meanwhile, Conner tried to run back home but is soon swept up in the changes to L.A. and finds all of his memories restored. Just as Illyria was given back all of her power and Fred's soul, so too has Conner been restored to his previous state. Fortunately, he retains his memories created by Cyvus Vail which prevents him from going back to hating his father. Conner soon finds himself a captive a group of demons who got lost on their way to the battle at the Hyperion. Meanwhile, Lorne finds himself drawn to Silver Lake where he regains his spark for helping people, by aiding in the clean up of the community and becoming it's demon lord. In the present, Betta George is held captive but is about to be killed by one of Gunn's vampires. David Messina returns to Angel for the first time since "Auld Lange Syne" and aptly handles the Spike short story. Controversial comics legend John Byrne goes for a more cartoony style with the Lorne segment. Lynch begins the task of filling in the blanks of how everyone survived, while bridging the gap between the alley and Angel fighting the demons attacking the humans in downtown L.A. . He continues to write Spike well, as we see how the other vampire with a soul found himself in the position that he is in again. The reluctant hero. Lorne's role makes sense and fits with his overall character. "Spike: Old Times" by Peter David and Fernando Goni. In 1880, William Pratt was embarrassed by his peers when he confessed his love to Cecily and his poem was read aloud. As we know, William The Bloody left the party and was turned into a vampire by Drusilla after passing by her, Angelus and Darla. In "Older And Farer Away", Anya brings her friend and fellow Vengenace Demon Halfrek to Dawn's birthday party. When Hallie sees Spike, she calls him William and he calls her Cecily. Then look away. A question fans have had is why and what was that about? Peter David answers with a story set sometime during season six. Spike finds himself in L.A. looking to annoy Angel for a few laughs, when he spots Halfrek in a bar and thus picks a fight with her. We learn that she was Cecily and that in a rare occurence, she agreed to fulfill a wish made by a man and not a woman. That man being Spike. Now in the present, the two are at odds with each other. Especially when Spike learns that she is there to kill a man who is a decendent of the man who was responsible for Halfrek becoming a Vengeance Demon. He learns that every 30 years, she has killed all of the decendents and tonight is the bithday of the last living decendent. Spike vows to stick it to Halfrek by protecting him. Though a non-canon tale, Peter David weaves a tale worthy of being a part of the Whedonverse. This is the first time we hear Spike's last name, created by David. Though it's canon status is up in the air, though it is mentioned in "Aslyum" which appears to be canon since it features the first appearence of Betta George who is in "After The Fall". Fernando Goi continues to be a solid artist with his ability to render the likenesses of both James Marsters and Kali Rocha with vivid detail. It's hard to say if he is that good or isn't tracing from publicity photos. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Healer_Leona Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/12/08 5:01pm Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	I am so going to have to look for Tales Of The Vampire. SOunds great. "Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Wolves At The Gate" Part 1. Brilliance and fabulous. That was the one my last post referred to. Just all kinds of wonderful. All caught up with Angel and loving it. I'd have loved to see this on TV Hm, didn't know about a new Spike and as any with him is on my pull list, the comic store better have me one. -----signature----- To me, you're strange and you're beautiful, You'd be so perfect with me but you just can't see, You turn every head but you don't see me.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 4/12/08 10:22pm Subject: RE: Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel book/comic book discussion
	"Old Times" came out before "Old Wounds", "Spike Vs Dracula" and way before "After The Fall". -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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