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Topic:
SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/23 1:59pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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Mastadge posted:
But the official word is it's not. They say that the only major change is that Peter and MJ never got married: they lived together for a while, but never actually took the vows.
Otherwise, everything happened as chronicled. Just NOBODY REMEMBERS. It's a Sentry-level re-writing of memory, not history.
The difference is that the Sentry's story was at least interesting (for a time)....this is just a meandering mess that had no purpose other than Quesada being hellbent on trying to relive a time that is no longer relevant.
And MJ/Pete is not the only Major change. Harry being alive is a rather big change of history and quite frankly one I don't understand. His decay into insanity and substance abuse leading to his tragic death is one of the most moving story lines in years. Suddenly he is alive without reason, he was just away... What does that have to do with MJ/Pete's Marriage? What happened with Liz or his Father??
Its not just an issue of erasing people's memory and negating the marriage...
This is either a giant mess that was poorly planned or there is something else going on. Honestly at this point I am inclined to believe that Harry is a Skrull and this whole thing is part of a larger plot but thats hoping for too much.
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Mastadge
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
5/23 2:02pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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This is either a giant mess that was poorly planned or there is something else going on. Honestly at this point I am inclined to believe that Harry is a Skrull and this whole thing is part of a larger plot but thats hoping for too much.
My guess is that it's a giant, poorly-planned mess and they're trying hard to convince us there's something else going on while they scrabble to come up with something that works. It's a giant mess, though, no doubt about it.
That said, you know death in comics. Cap's last death before Brubaker killed him, he simply came back from with no explanation at all. MJ's death suddenly became "she moved away to California" when they decided that wasn't a good idea. . .
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/23 2:09pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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Mastadge posted:
This is either a giant mess that was poorly planned or there is something else going on. Honestly at this point I am inclined to believe that Harry is a Skrull and this whole thing is part of a larger plot but thats hoping for too much.
My guess is that it's a giant, poorly-planned mess and they're trying hard to convince us there's something else going on while they scrabble to come up with something that works. It's a giant mess, though, no doubt about it.
That said, you know death in comics. Cap's last death before Brubaker killed him, he simply came back from with no explanation at all. MJ's death suddenly became "she moved away to California" when they decided that wasn't a good idea. . .
Yeah but those were both retconning poor choices. Harry's death was almost as meaningful as Gwen's and was one of those deaths that felt appropriate for the character. It had a sense of finality and closure and really nothing more was needed to be said. I would be alright bringing him back if it had a purpose...if there was a reason to do it. This is simply out of the blue. I can't even imagine its a sales stunt because the fact he is back is so incredibly underplayed...
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chiss_man
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/23 10:16pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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darth-sinister posted:
As to Bob Gale, he did two Batman stories a few years back. Both were critically acclaimed. So why he doesn't fit with BND is beyond me.
He seems to be taking the whole "Spidey back to his 1970's status quo" way too seriously. Mother in law jokes? Really?
Anyway, overall BND has been good. Slott and Wells have been really good, Guggenheim has been so-so, with only Gale as the real drag in terms of quality. I thought I read somewhere though that Wells and Gale were leaving the writing team soon though...?
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
5/24 11:58am
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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1. History has changed. Peter and MJ never got married. They lived together for a number of years after failing to get married on the day of the wedding. Peter never got MJ pregnant. Harry Osborn never died. Otherwise, as I call it "Pretending It Never Happened".
2. Gale and Wells are only leaving because they were going to be available for a short time. Wells, however, will contribute to the braintrust as creative consultant, of sorts. J.M. DeMatties, Mark Waid, Roger Stern and Joe Kelly will join Dan Slott and Marc Guggenheim.
3. The issue of people's memories. Only the memories of the marriage, the pregnancy and Harry's death have been altered drastically. Everyone who knew that Peter is Spider-Man, no longer remembers. Meaning that Wolverine, Daredevil, Norman Osborn, Mac Garigan, Eddie Brock and the Symbiote no longer remember who Spider-Man is. They remember seeing him unmasked, but cannot remember his face or real name. And from now on, they'll never know. Logan and Murdock will never run into Peter Parker and thus recognize him. Norman will never rip off Peter's mask or rely on a gas or Venom to find out who he is. The upcoming Venom arc and a Thunderbolts storyarc will deal with them post OMD.
4. It'll be a cold day in hell, according to Quesada, before they undo OMD. But it'll happen once today's readership comes into control of Marvel like Quesada did and choose to undo it. Basically for Marvel, everyone can evolve and advance except for Spider-Man. It hurts the character. Their words, not mine.
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Mastadge
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
5/24 12:11pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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darth-sinister posted:
4. It'll be a cold day in hell, according to Quesada, before they undo OMD. But it'll happen once today's readership comes into control of Marvel like Quesada did and choose to undo it. Basically for Marvel, everyone can evolve and advance except for Spider-Man. It hurts the character. Their words, not mine.
Take this with a grain of salt. Remember those changes Spidey went through in Disassembled and The Other? The ones that would change the character forever? Yeah. (Can he still make his own webbing, but simply can't remember that he can? Does he still have the enhanced spider-sense, but not remember it being any other way?) Remember the Spidey unmasking in Civil War, which they promised would provide years of story fodder? Yeah. Cold days in hell come regularly in comic books.
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chiss_man
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/24 5:05pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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I'm still not 100% convinced this all isn't a massive storyline to drive us to #600 when true love will conquer all. Granted, that seems unlikely at the moment, but the way in the first BND issue they saw fit to mention #600 and the last page of the latest issue has me mildly curious...
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Mastadge
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
5/24 5:45pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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A suggestion I've heard that I like: start a Spider-Man: What If. . . OMD was Just Another Day maxi or ongoing, written by JMS, and let him continue to tell his story from where he'd left off, and see which book sold better. . .
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/24 10:10pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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That I could get onboard with. I mean its great that they want to bring in new readers but whats the point when doing so alienates the current ones.
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chiss_man
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/24 10:18pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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Well at this point BND sells well enough to justify the changes (I believe the magic number for success is 71,000, and the last issue in April sold about 77,000). However, the sales have been steadily going down since a high of well over 100,000 with the first BND issue, #546. As long as it stays over 71,000ish for the thrice monthly, then it's doing better than Amazing/Friendly/Sensational did pre-OMD. So for the moment, Marvel has no real need to give readers an option, as sales justify things as is.
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NJOfan215
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/25 8:55am
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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The whole thing about peoples memories being rewritten is just stupid. It makes no sense. No one remembers that spidey is peter parker, well what happens when one of his former students cleans out their room and comes across a newspaper with his/her science teacher declaring he is spiderman on the front page?
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/25 10:07am
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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One would assume that Mephisto was talented enough to erase not just the memory but tangible evidence of the occurance as well. Either that or its an ongoing case of amnesia where they may find records about it but the spell immediately makes them forget what they just read...
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Darth-Lando
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/25 11:01am
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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To quote Joe Quesada: "It's magic. We don't have to explain it."
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
5/25 1:23pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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1. Back when Quesada took over as EIC, one thing that he said that he wanted to fix was Spider-Man and the issue of marriage. This was back in 2000. He's been adamant about it for years. Roger Stern refused to write the books for a long time, because of it. Kurt Busiek, Mark Waid, Dan Slott, Tom DeFalco and others have said throughout the years that getting Peter married was a mistake. That it only happened because Jim Shooter made a foolish decision to get them married to tie in with the daily newspaper strip. DeFalco said that he had planned to have MJ leave Peter at the alter, but it was too late to change it and so he left it. Marvel did the Clone Saga as a means of having a single Peter Parker once again, but got cold feet. Gwen Stacy was killed off because they didn't want Peter to marry her.
2. All evidence of Peter being unmasked was erased by Mephisto. Newspaper pics, video tape and digital cameras. All of S.H.E.I.L.D. footage. Etc.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/25 2:29pm
Subject:
RE: SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)
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darth-sinister posted:
Gwen Stacy was killed off because they didn't want Peter to marry her.
See I always thought that it had more to do with the writers not really knowing where to take the character.
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