| Author |
Topic:
The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
Gryer
Registered:
Apr '08
|
Date Posted:
4/27 2:43pm
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/27 2:53pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Gryer
|
Leto II posted:
Will we get more scenes of Kara and Sam playing "Rape," next episode?
And the Chief is apparently bald-headed next week. Meltdown continues![/ul]
Count on Kara's persona to shift and become agitated and frustrated. Her session with Anders is (imo) is because she is frustrated by not being able to find the mistaken trinary star system and because he cant fullfill what she feels is her only purpose right now.
This is leaving her detached from herself and those around her? She does feel distanced for sure... With this the only thing that will jar her is to likely keep going to extremes to break past the melancholy. and feel "something".
I am looking forward to the chiefs crash into complete loss of self... but I did not see the preview. I just hope he doesn't become a Baltar zealot.
EDIT: just watched the preview.... holy crap! I am excited to see Leoben back, if anyone will be able to help Kara decipher her dream... it's gonna be him. Of course he is going to die again  he seems to be the "kenny" of BSG. But that makes me like him even more
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
|
Date Posted:
4/27 3:58pm
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/27 4:02pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
|
I just don't know about the Chief slagging his freshly-dead wife. I suppose he's trying to come to grips with being a Cylon, as well as deal with Cally's death. I took the Chief's display in the bar as an example of survivor's guilt. He and Tigh were both looking for someone to punish them, while their fellow closeted Cylon just seems to lose more and more of her moral bearings with each episode.
Whatever role the Final Five were supposed to play when they were inserted into human society, they're each going in their own direction, now.
And there seems to be an excellent chance that Roslin will try to get Baltar to heal her when she finally gets near death.
The Cylon/Cylon God philosophy seems to boil down to "Love yourself, pain is good, **** how the rest of the universe feels about anything." It explains how the Cylons could attempt the genocide of the human race, I guess. It all worked fittingly. Overall, last week's and this most recent episode were powerful. I'm certainly looking forward to Leoben's reappearance this week.
Also, this show is giving Jesus one hell of a backhanded compliment by having their most loathsome and slimy character turn into him.
-----signature-----
"So we're not going to sit through hours of me abusing myself to Markie Post?"
-- The Monarch
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
|
Date Posted:
4/27 4:35pm
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
|
They need to get a few Mormon writers back on the show like the original if they are going to make so many religious references. And if you are familiar with that backdrop, there really is a plethora of characters they could use from the Book of Mormon and early LDS history. I just feel special I know where they got Kobol in the first place I guess.
-----signature-----
A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.
Theodore Roosevelt
We should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe.
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
|
Date Posted:
4/28 3:54am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
Kobol=Kolob, the star closest to where G-d lives in the Book of Mormon, correct?
Peace,
V-03
-----signature-----
"Bring your pretty face to my axe....."
B-O-H-I-C-A !! (that was funny DM!)
"I'm what Willis was talking about"
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Tactic_Thrawn
Registered:
Jul '06
|
Date Posted:
4/28 9:14am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
Had been expecting this since Baltar got his longer-than-normal hair and beard:
Before they die, 'all' 'good' science fiction television series are wont to take a jab, swipe, or full-on assault at (or on) Christianity. 
For this show, there was Baltar morphing into a semblance of how Jesus is commonly depicted in the West. Then there was the 'chosen one' ordeal--same as with Star Wars, incidentally. Now this idea is cemented, or is at least congealing, with: Baltar causing a ruckus in the polytheistic gathering, a la overturning moneylenders' tables, although actually the two cases are not very comparable except for the actions; bringing up the 'cult of Mithras' (Atheists' top candidate--mixed with Judaism--for a forerunning 'proto-Christianity'); not to mention even the use of the term 'services.' If when they discover Earth, Earth is AD 100 or earlier, that would just be the 'cherry on top.' 
While the makers of Battlestar are using a lot more tact than is usual, it's still offensive.
Why do these people--who are invariably Atheists--hate Christianity so much? What did Christianity do to Atheism besides deem it to be just another non-Christian religion? What, because they don't roll over and accept what Atheists believe is the 'obviousness' of Atheism, and actively try to share their own views on how and why the universe runs, suddenly they're some sort of evil enemy?
You might get the impression that they view their anti-Christian analogies as being akin to the infamous Mohammed cartoons. 'Sticking it to the man' if you will. When was the last time Christians used violence--in the name of Christianity? The Atlanta Olympic bombing of an abortion clinic? An act of violence which was absolutely denounced--absolutely, without any qualifications--by all major Christian denominations?
You know, many Atheists seem to have had rough childhoods in what they consider strict, Christian homes. Guessing that this is the case for some of these science fiction creators/executive producers--one science fiction show in particular has quite a few bad parental-child relations (will let you guess). And personally have sympathy for those Atheists who look on their childhood in 'Christian' homes as a bad experience--sincerely. However, that doesn't make it [proper] for them to then attack all Christianity because that is what they blame for the rottenness of their childhood. That was because of their family, and is between them and their families. There's no need to drag Christianity, Atheism, and religion into this.
-----
BTW, as stated, Battlestar uses much more tact, and for the earlier three seasons actually showed far more respect for the concept of religion than the average science fiction show. However, personally wonder how the show will end in the field of religion, a lot being based on just what Caprica and Baltar's 'little helpers' actually are--although will grant you that personally happen to be skeptical by nature, especially in the realm of science fiction and non-Atheist belief systems. (Still view one JCF member's explanation of them being a result of Kobol nanotechnology to be a mite loopy, though).  [That could change if new episodes give any evidence to support that hypothesis.]
-----
P.S. So far, this season's been pretty 'lame.' The last three episodes (potentially *all* the episodes this season up to this point) have all been 'turmoil among the humans and Cylons in their respective fleets.' It's getting a bit old.
-----signature-----
What's Christianity? John 3:16. Simple as that. Personally happen to be a Christian. That's not remotely the same as a *perfect* Christian. http://scifi4.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
|
Date Posted:
4/28 9:36am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/28 9:41am (4 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
|
It's very interesting that the first words we see Tyrol speak after learning about his wife's death is a prayer. Not just a prayer, but a prayer in the polytheistic religion of his father, whoever or whatever that "father" was. Tyrol is inherently spiritual, where Tory is inherently logical. She is, therefore, certain about things that Tyrol and Tigh can never be certain about. In embracing being a Cylon, Tory is letting herself sidestep all of the ambiguities that come with being a person.
If you're just a machine, then you serve a purpose without second thoughts, and the meaning of your existence is hardwired by your manufacturer. If you're a person, like Tyrol and Tigh still believe they are, than the meaning of your existence is derived from the cosmos -- by forces too grand and vast to comprehend. If you're a person, you don't have the luxury of disengaging.
If the Cylons had been led by Tyrol and Tigh, they wouldn't have been anywhere near as efficient. But they also wouldn't be engaged in a civil war now. The disengagement favored by Tory and practiced by most of the seven models leaves them without a mechanism to deal with the ambiguities of a morally ambiguous world.
As Tigh makes clear to Tyrol, he has never stopped loving his wife. The grief that still haunts him serves no objective operational purpose, and is therefore useless under Tory's ideology, but roots him in the struggles and consequences of the world around him. No grief means no consequences, and that's what makes Tory and the other Cylons so scary and so dangerous. No people that feel grief can unleash a genocide on the scale witnessed in the miniseries.
You know Tory's reached a spectacular level of self-delusion when Baltar, of all people, is in the position of trying to bring her back to reality. Their dynamic is like that most inexplicable endgame for rock-paper-scissors: paper covers rock. As she hold him pinned him against the bed and plucks hairs from his head, he's basically like tissue paper set against a boulder. Her physical domination of him, like Six's before her, is complete. She could tear his puny human frame limb-from-limb.
And yet, because his ideology is the Cylon ideology, she is captive to whatever frivolities come out of his mouth. He is the Oracle of the Cylon God, and so his word is her law. This doesn't mean that she is confined by his perspective...words that Baltar aims as critique are taken by her as affirmation.
It's fascinating that Baltar's new flashpoint is primarily as heretic now, instead of betrayer of humanity. The tit-for-tat between the polytheistic hardliners and his own monotheistic personality cult is poisonous. He reacts with the same paranoia of any religious minority threatened by the oppressive forces of the dominant faith, and lashes out. This, in turn, only radicalizes the hardliners further. Roslin's fears when it comes to Baltar might not be overstated.
-----signature-----
"So we're not going to sit through hours of me abusing myself to Markie Post?"
-- The Monarch
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
|
Date Posted:
4/28 2:06pm
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
On another note, I'm thinking more about Lampkin potentially being the final Cylon.
This is a short point, but does anybody remember his last interaction with Lee? He walked off without his cane. I have to wonder whether or not that is significant.
I really hope it's not Ellen, myself.
Good analysis, LetoII. I agree with a lot of what you said.
Peace,
V-03
-----signature-----
"Bring your pretty face to my axe....."
B-O-H-I-C-A !! (that was funny DM!)
"I'm what Willis was talking about"
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
|
Date Posted:
4/28 6:40pm
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/28 6:48pm (5 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
|
Thanks, and I've been heavily leaning towards Lampkin as the final skinjob myself, too.
Who knows what was going on with Adama in the first three episodes, but it was nice to see the calm-and-restrained Adama back in this episode. Every scene he was in was just perfect, especially the bar-scene and the book-scene at the end. He's so warm and so genuine that you can't help but trust in him. At the same time, there's a war being waged for his soul.
It is because he loves Roslin that she's so scary now. As death looms closer and closer on the horizon for her, her ruthless singularity of purpose is less and less restrained by the concerns of the living.
The scene at the Quorum table, where she passionately and skillfully pauses the tidal wave behind Lee, shows that she can still be a masterful politician. But she is less and less inclined to make use of her political acumen. And she, more than any one else, has the admiral's ear. The sweetness of Adama's gesture aside, the implications of the bedside scene at the end are extraordinarily troubling.
Lee is causing Roslin trouble. So Roslin is trying to turn the admiral against his own son. Even more disquieting, she's not trying to argue that Lee is necessarily wrong. Instead, she is arguing that what is right is not of paramount importance. Roslin remains a rich character worthy of respect. But she has become absolutely terrifying in her fanaticism.
The episode was bookended by prayer, concluding with Baltar's treatise on the "perfection" of everyone. We can see on his face how ready he is to believe that there is a God out there who loves him all the time, maybe even as much as Baltar loves himself. And yet, the conclusion that he draws -- that God loves us all because we are perfect, not in spite of our imperfections -- is almost farcical, given everything that has transpired so far.
It's Kool-Aid for the masses, a submission to Tory intellectually having already submitted physically. Lee, having once again stood up and done the moral thing, suddenly sees how right Roslin was. They're all, human and Cylon, better for their flaws. But to accept those flaws as perfection is to eliminate any need for self-improvement. The struggle between what is right and what is easy can't be ignored for much longer, here.
-----signature-----
"So we're not going to sit through hours of me abusing myself to Markie Post?"
-- The Monarch
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
|
Date Posted:
4/29 6:56am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
Read an interesting fan theory last night while on call at the hospital.
Basically, it said that Kobol was a colony of Earth, that it was made up of a splinter faction of religious extremists who nuked Earth before they left, and that the survivors became the Beings of Light, who will guide human and Cylon back to Earth to unite them, bringing both races to their "end".
I thought it was pretty cool.
I also think it's almost certain that while Earth will look like our planet in terms of geography, it's going to be a fictional version of the planet. Moore has said that we're going to reach something "that we're going to call Earth", but I doubt that it's going to bear much resemblance to our planet.
Can't wait, six more episodes. Also, looks like filming, if all goes as planned, will finish up at the end of June, hopefully avoiding any work stoppages if there is an actor's strike.
Peace,
V-03
-----signature-----
"Bring your pretty face to my axe....."
B-O-H-I-C-A !! (that was funny DM!)
"I'm what Willis was talking about"
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Gryer
Registered:
Apr '08
|
Date Posted:
4/29 8:25am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/29 8:28am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gryer
|
Vaderize03 posted:
Read an interesting fan theory last night while on call at the hospital.
Basically, it said that Kobol was a colony of Earth, that it was made up of a splinter faction of religious extremists who nuked Earth before they left, and that the survivors became the Beings of Light, who will guide human and Cylon back to Earth to unite them, bringing both races to their "end".
I thought it was pretty cool.
I also think it's almost certain that while Earth will look like our planet in terms of geography, it's going to be a fictional version of the planet. Moore has said that we're going to reach something "that we're going to call Earth", but I doubt that it's going to bear much resemblance to our planet.
Can't wait, six more episodes. Also, looks like filming, if all goes as planned, will finish up at the end of June, hopefully avoiding any work stoppages if there is an actor's strike.
Peace,
V-03
Interesting, I had a similar thought, not as violent though. I agree, after looking at the "3rd sun" in Kara's vision and seeing the whispy-shimmer of it I am very certain that it is a ship of light.
Now are we going to see the same korny beings of light from the OS? Na.. I doubt it will be that ham handed. But I do agree that likely the beings of light are survivors of the cycle. And that they have taken refuge on earth and extend help to refugees of the cycle when it reaches the point where the two clashing races are near collapse and annihilation.
I also think its very likely that Leoben knows of them or a little about them, and has arrived at Kara's call to help decipher the dream to help her follow their markers.
Now the fun question... are the ships of light themselves part of a greater Cycle... THATS what is baking my noodle... in razor the 1st hybrid said basically he had witnessed this all before... maybe the hybrid in its forgotten state was excluded from last cycle and now sees the greater picture after seeing things happen again.
I hope the pull this off right, I would hate see the show go into the campy we are the forces of good and light (yech! too 80's for me!)
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Sith_Lords
Registered:
May '04
|
Date Posted:
4/30 3:01am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
|
I think I may have missed something here - where do we see this vision of Kara's?
-----signature-----
Rose Tyler: Look at you, beaming away like you're Father Christmas!
The Doctor: Who says I'm not red-bicycle-when-you-were-twelve?
Rose Tyler: What?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Gryer
Registered:
Apr '08
|
Date Posted:
4/30 9:53am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
Sith_Lords posted:
I think I may have missed something here - where do we see this vision of Kara's?
In EP.3 on the lovely sewage ship, right after the discussion about Kara seemingly running in circles there is a part where she is plotting on charts. during this part she flashes back to her vision of the *"Trinary"* start system with a gas giant.
The flash is like 5 seconds long.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Gryer
Registered:
Apr '08
|
Date Posted:
4/30 11:39am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
10 minutes and 49 seconds is when the clip of the vision occurs.. cheers!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Gryer
Registered:
Apr '08
|
Date Posted:
4/30 11:46am
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/30 11:46am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gryer
|
I am sure we seen the screen caps of the vision... but another thing that struck me today further pointing to the Ship of lights theory is this:
Look at the gas giant. we have light refraction from the two real suns in the middle left.
But we have NO light refraction for the suspect "wispy" object that is overlapping the gas giant in the mid-lower right. If it were a yellow/white sun... the side of the gas giant facing the sun should be lit up as the side facing the other two stars.
Maybe I am insane. but I am convinced beyond all doubt now this is a ship of light. Angles? Ascended beings? Refugees from previous cycles.. dunno.
But a sun that object does not make!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Mustafar_66
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
4/30 4:45pm
Subject:
RE: The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)
|
|
Honestly, I'm kind of disappointed we aren;t going to be going to the real Earth (as in ours). This whole trinary system seems a bit stupid.
-----signature-----
Why no, I won't get in your car. You can pass me the candy through the window. Pink Floyd are the Greatest! Proud Jacen, NJO and LOTF fan. One of few.    
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
