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Author	Topic: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
Darth_Vader-Anakin Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 7/15/07 11:39pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	I really enjoyed the intro. The quick build up in the low strings to a not fully completed statement of Hedwig's Theme with fluttering instruments in the background greatly captured the feel of a coming darkness and confusion amongst the wizarding population about Voldermort's return that lingers over the entire film.
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Cerrabore Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 7/16/07 12:03am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	Just saw Order of the Phoenix. It's just underwhelming. So many good things going on, but a failure to condense the book's plot well (so many plot points explored cursorily, but not resolved) and some obnoxious cinematography/sound work (the constant zooming in/out and disorienting "swooshing" so typical of movies these days got on my nerves, as did the cheesy newspaper montages) made the movie unimpressive. Overall, the movie just felt muted! Dialogue was too sparse everywhere. Why do the Dursleys just leer stupidly? It's certainly in character, but so is Uncle Vernon beating the hell out of Harry. He doesn't even shout. Nothing's explained; Harry doesn't tell them what dementors are or wonder what they are doing in Little Whinging. While I don't object to Aunt Petunia's connection to Dumbledore being omitted (it probably won't end up being a really big deal), so little is said, and the scene is so brief. The scenes with the Order were also brief and skeletal. I asked a friend, "Did you blink and miss Lupin?" He replied, "Lupin was in the movie?" Indeed, there is a man sitting at the table who briefly discusses Voldemort's times, but the notion that he once had a close bond to Harry seems discarded. There's just no dialogue (not even a glance between characters) to support it. I did, however, very much like that he restrains Harry after Sirius's death. The scenes with Sirius are well done, but seem awkward because of Sirius's miniscule role in Goblet of Fire (not this film's fault, of course). All the members of the Order are there, but they're just, well, there. Amusing it is that Tonks's hair changes color, but given that she has, what, one line? is there any point to it? The scenes at Hogwarts belong to Harry and the extras, who come into their own very well (Neville, Ginny, Seamus), but not to Ron and Hermione, who mutter and consider and explicate, but act continually restrained and unenthusiastic. Poor Malfoy; Crabbe and Goyle practically have larger parts than his. Umbridge is great as portrayed by Staunton, but I got exasperated with the enormous role of Mr. Filch. He's mean, he hates children, and he likes Umbridge; we get it. He needn't have such an exceptional amount of screen time, especially given that (again, the dialogue) he has so few lines. Wait... I actually don't recall him having any lines! And Filch's voice was fun to hear; an icon of Harry Potter. The romance with Cho was very thorough and very pointless. Since the movie takes a page out of Half-Blood Prince and foreshadows the Harry/Ginny relationship, couldn't it have done away with Cho entirely? At least, we didn't need six different shots of the kiss; just a brief, clumsy start to it, then cut to Harry in the common room feeling weird. Why was Hermione's interminable dialogue about Cho's feelings retained? It's about as important as S.P.E.W. I can see that the only reason for Grawp was to give Hagrid something to do, but the giant subplot could have been cut (Hermione needed only to lead Umbridge to the centaurs, not both the centaurs and Grawp) and Hagrid could have been returned his scene at the end where he comforts Harry. Instead, we don't even see Hagrid after the battle at the Ministry, despite his prominence in Harry's life. The battle at the Ministry was good, with the weak point being the score. "Sirius's Death" and "Possession," with their simple, predictable and dully orchestrated sound weren't impressive. Also, the constant, dementor-like apparation of the Death Eaters and the Order, as well as their ability to cast spells without incantations, required some considerable suspension of disbelief. The ending of the film totally failed to provide explanations, as usual (why have the past three films all screwed this up?). Harry hears the prophecy before Lucius Malfoy asks "Don't you want to know the secrets? ..." which was certainly a clumsy choice in scriptwriting. We don't find out that Trelawney made the prophecy (it would have justified her strangely drawn out dismissal scene). We don't find out that Umbridge sent the dementors, that Snape alerted the Order, that Kreacher tricked Harry... well, I guess that's because he didn't. I know Rowling kept Kreacher in, but he should have been given something to do. There absolutely should have been some Quidditch! Not a match, but a mention of it at least when student organizations are disbanded. I noticed a cast credit for "slightly creepy boy." Funny, because that credit should have belonged to the guy who plays Percy Weasley. What's he doing, just standing by Fudge? Why doesn't he say anything? Why don't the Weasleys say anything about his absence in the family? Why is he here at all? It's almost surreal watching him. I guess Bill and Charlie Weasley just won't be showing up in the films, which is disappointing but understandable. On the positive side: Dudley! Much more interesting since his stand around and get hit in the head with stuff Azkaban days. He's a pathetic asswipe, and this really shines through in his brief scenes. Dark, unnatural atmosphere in the opening scenes. It was nice to see the students actually taking classes again (ah, Snape's potions room, it's been a while!), after Goblet of Fire featured only one classroom scene. The supporting characters like Seamus, Ginny and Neville, who, back in the days of Sorcerer's Stone stumbled through cliched, pointless lines and smiled stupidly in the background, have become real people, and there is a sense that Harry actually has some acquaintance with them. The Dumbledore's Army scenes are really well done; I can't really find fault with them. Umbridge is excellent in every scene. The final battle at the Ministry is excellent, only weakened by the score. After the wide, restrained shots of Goblet of Fire it's nice to see the camera focusing in on people again. In fact, it's sometimes claustrophobic, and this effect works well. Kreacher, even though he's pointless, is very creepy. Some of the score (like "Another Story" and "The Room of Requirements") is great. I almost did a double take when I heard the first three notes of "A Window to the Past," but I guess it was just a coincidence. This film is dark, intense and unified in vision; its greatest weakness is the plodding, uneven and unfulfilling script.
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Strilo Title: Manager • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/16/07 7:45am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	Isn't this thread for discussion of the score? Shouldn't film discussion go in other forums? -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: R.E.M. "Imitation of Life" #1 on iTunes Film Scores: Harry Potter "A Window to the Past" * * * * * * "And therefore blah blah blah your mom..."
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General Kenobi Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Dec '98	Date Posted: 7/16/07 9:04am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	Why not discuss the film? Other forums discuss score.
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Darth_Vader-Anakin Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 7/16/07 9:29am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	Cerrabore, while I agree with you on some points, I think you have to admit that it will be nigh impossible to make someone who read the book happy with the film. We're talking about an 870 page book being condensed into a 2.5 hour movie. Some of the things you mention such as the Dursley's and Tonk's hair were there mainly for character. People don't always have to have something to do to be in a film. They add to the world. Cerrabore posted: We don't find out that Umbridge sent the dementors, that Snape alerted the Order, that Kreacher tricked Harry... well, I guess that's because he didn't. I know Rowling kept Kreacher in, but he should have been given something to do. There absolutely should have been some Quidditch! Not a match, but a mention of it at least when student organizations are disbanded. I think it's fairly easy to deduce that Snape alerted the Order, and although the story with Kreacher tricking Harry and Harry feeling even more guilty over Sirius' death was good in the book, it wasn't neccessary and would have mucked things up even more had it been included in the film. I do however, agree with you about the ending not tying things up well. I think it was a huge error to change the conversation between Dumbledore and Harry at the end. I understand why they didn't have Harry thrwowing things and shouting, but to not have the information about Trelawney and Neville in there could come back to bite them later.
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Strilo Title: Manager • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/16/07 10:59am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	People cannot let go of books when they see film adaptations. But then most people don't seem to grasp what adaptation means. Saying the film is not as good as the book or that the film sucks compared to the book is like saying that this apple is the worst tasting orange. Yeah. Not the same. The question isn't how did OOTP compare to the book, but how did it work AS A FILM. I think it worked very well as a film and friends who've not read the books seemed to enjoy it too. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: R.E.M. "Imitation of Life" #1 on iTunes Film Scores: Harry Potter "A Window to the Past" * * * * * * "And therefore blah blah blah your mom..."
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Miana Kenobi Title: RSA & Manager Fighting Darth Real Life Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 7/16/07 3:33pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	My music review of it: I thought the score by itself was great. However, I wasn't a big fan of it in the movie. I thought Umbridge's theme was the strongest one, next to the Fireworks music. However, the rest of it just seemed to be nonexistant. -----signature----- You can't take the sky from me. He tini nga whetu e ngaro I te kapua iti. Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!
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Darth_Vader-Anakin Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 7/16/07 4:12pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	See, I'm the exact opposite. I don't think it's that compelling of a listen on its own, but works wonderfully with the images in the film.
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Miana Kenobi Title: RSA & Manager Fighting Darth Real Life Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 7/16/07 5:44pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	It was just anti-climatic to me. Like I said, Umbridge's theme worked beautifully, but it just didn't do anything for me. -----signature----- You can't take the sky from me. He tini nga whetu e ngaro I te kapua iti. Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!
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General_Quenobi Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 7/17/07 7:07am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	The best way to describe it for me is it is good for a book reading. While reading Potter you could have the album playing and mostly the tracks are soft enough and general enough to provide some background music while you read the Potterverse. Same goes for the film...it complimiented it very well I think when it wasn't the focus. As an album experience there are some good underscore moments in most tracks but like many have already said nothing is every really developed into an arc. Also, the track order presented on the album is rubbish. If it weren't a waste of a CD I'd burn the chronological order and listen to that. Oh well, I'll listen to it in order on iTunes and my iPod. Overall, I think that Doyle had better themes consistently, but Hooper had better orchestration, and his theme for Umbridge and The Room of Requirement were GREAT! Hooper's definitely adds a few tracks to a HP greatest tracks playlist, but not as many as I'd hoped. Oh well. For the first time in a few years the next movie will retain the same composer so maybe we will have some development of ideas and themes since a new composer isn't turning his nose up at previous themes and thinking he can do better when he clearly should have incorporated a few more older themes.
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Cerrabore Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 7/17/07 1:31pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	"The Room of Requirement" is quite the score highlight. It's fugue-like in its construction. Delightful melody, a little tension here, heroism there... the last minute is particularly good.
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shiningstars Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 7/17/07 11:51pm Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	I thought the score was a nice attempt... My main problem is that many tracks end without finishing and just when you begin to enjoy the track, it's over. I loved Another Story, it creates a dark atmosphere which fits with OotP. I thought the Flight of the Phoenix started of well but I didn't like what he did with it after the build-up at about 45 seconds. Prisoner still remains the strongest Harry Potter score, although I'd like to see what Hooper does with H-BP (He is signed for it right?). Seems like so many people had a problem with Grawp and I agree the CG was quite bad and he felt unnecessary. But apparently Rowling was shown the script (or the unfinished movie, can't remember which) with a certain character was missing, and she said if you are going to make a 7th movie you will have your hands tied up if that character is absent from OotP... I wonder if it was Grawp? It could be Aberforth too but he had a blink and miss appearance so I doubt that counts...Who else could it be? who was added after Jo made them?
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Cerrabore Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 7/18/07 12:08am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	That would be Kreacher. It's specifically been mentioned by the filmmakers. As for Grawp, the awful thing wasn't really necessary - Umbridge could simply have been taken away by the centaurs. No setup? Just replace the first Grawp scene with the trio talking with Hagrid in the Forbidden Forest, some centaurs shuffling past, and Hagrid commenting that they're getting restless (wasn't that included, anyway?).
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shiningstars Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 7/18/07 2:40am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	wow Kreacher yes, I didn't remember Kreacher! thanks for telling me then I suppose we could have done without Grawp but maybe they thought he will come in as important later and put him in, who knows?
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packerfansam Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 7/18/07 11:19am Subject: RE: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]
	Cerrabore posted: As for Grawp, the awful thing wasn't really necessary - Umbridge could simply have been taken away by the centaurs. No setup? Just replace the first Grawp scene with the trio talking with Hagrid in the Forbidden Forest, some centaurs shuffling past, and Hagrid commenting that they're getting restless (wasn't that included, anyway?). Well, they would have probably had to think of a different reason for Hagrid to take the kids out into the forest, but that's not really a big deal at all. It's not like they didn't change other things in the film. -----signature----- Help save innocent lives, go to www.petfinder.com. Formerly SeventhAngelicSlayer Detroit Red Wings: 2008 Stanley Cup Champions
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