Author Topic: Transformers Movie Score
Cerrabore 
Registered: Jan '04
20893_Kreia
Date Posted: 8/16/07 4:23pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score - Date Edited: 8/16/07 4:24pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Cerrabore
That bit about electronics is sort of a misconception. I prefer the symphonic approach as much anyone, but I don't inherently dislike electronic music. Hell, mindless dance beats like "Sandstorm" can be catchy. I see two major problems with MV-style music:

1) It is cheap/shoddy/dull. Electronic music is an exciting genre; almost any sound can be produced by the right synthesizer. MV-style scores usually attempt only the barest innovation in this genre, sticking to tried and true faux-orchestral muck. For electronic music that actually pushes the limits of sound and programming, check out the excellent Half-Life video game scores by Kelly Bailey.

2) MV music is orchestral music on steroids. This sounds cool until you realize that people on steroids are adrenaline-charged assholes. Say a guy starts taking steroids to grow muscle mass, and after a while all he can do is compare himself to other body builders and insult guys smaller than he is. Now, replace the man in the example with the score to 300, and...

Okay, I lied; there's a third major reason. The third reason is that dozens of composers and arrangers work interchangeably to complete one man's score without any thought to unified vision or creativity. It's simply unacceptable. Writing good music isn't easy, though Hans "I can write that in my sleep" Zimmer may disagree (the quote refers to the "old fashioned woodwind runs" he wrote for At World's End). Reading interviews with Zimmer, you notice that Zimmer is a casual, easy-going guy. In fact, he's so easy-going that he gets lazy and has others write music for him, and when these others break out into their own, they hire their own others to write their scores. It's like a pyramid scam.

 

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andy1044 
Registered: Aug '06
13782_John Williams
Date Posted: 8/16/07 4:49pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score - Date Edited: 8/16/07 4:52pm (2 edits total) Edited By: andy1044
Cerrabore posted:

Okay, I lied; there's a third major reason. The third reason is that dozens of composers and arrangers work interchangeably to complete one man's score without any thought to unified vision or creativity. It's simply unacceptable. Writing good music isn't easy, though Hans "I can write that in my sleep" Zimmer may disagree (the quote refers to the "old fashioned woodwind runs" he wrote for At World's End). Reading interviews with Zimmer, you notice that Zimmer is a casual, easy-going guy. In fact, he's so easy-going that he gets lazy and has others write music for him, and when these others break out into their own, they hire their own others to write their scores. It's like a pyramid scam.


Thats not entirely true. Zimmer founded Media Ventures to replicate the situation he had with Stanley Myers over in Britain. The whole point is to bring in young, inexperienced composers and apprentice them to older composers so that the young guys can gain experience to eventually break into the business on their own. The collaboration is one of the necessary parts of that model. Give the young guys a few scenes to score here and there under the guidance of the head composer so that they can build their confidence and eventually get their own film. Now while I don't necessarily agree with what comes out of Media Ventures, I do like the idea of the company. When you think about it, what they are doing isn't so different from what Alfred Newman and all the other heads of the music departments did during the Golden Age. 20th Century had a huge music department during the 40s and 50s with hundreds of staff composers. In those days the studios were tuning out literally hundreds of movies a year, which would give the lead composer only a few weeks to come up with 40-50 minutes of score. In situations like that collaboration was necessary and unavoidable, though granted most of the collaboration was with the orchestrators. Even Andre Previn got his start working as an orchestrator, composer, and conductor under some of the big names at MGM when he was 16.

As for your last point about the "pyramid scam," this says more about the composer himself than about where he came from. A few talented composers have come out of Media Ventures and write the entirety of their scores. If only we could have a Media Ventures where the old hats are John Williams, Howard Shore, Thomas Newman, and Alan Silvestri. That would be quite an awesome music consultation company.

 

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Cerrabore 
Registered: Jan '04
20893_Kreia
Date Posted: 8/16/07 5:37pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Andy, good points, but a lot of terrible scores came out of the fifties, too (though I have admittedly heard few). Most of these scores are totally forgotten and unavailable in the digital format. One advantage the fifties had was greater competence in music theory, arrangement and orchestration. However, I would not argue for a second that every score from that period was exceptionally creative. Film goers were addicted to certain, stereotypical sounds in film music then just as they are today.

Media Ventures does indeed give up and coming composers a chance for experience, but it's still a fact that the head guy gets a lot of his music written for him. One function of the apprentice system has always been to alleviate the workload of the master. This is reasonable in manual production, but in art? Also, how valuable is the experience if it teaches composers to write in cliched, predictable patterns?

 

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Darth_Vader-Anakin 
Registered: Jul '02
14748_Duality IV
Date Posted: 8/16/07 6:06pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Just as a side note, shouldn't we be calling it Remote Control Productions? wink

 

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Cerrabore 
Registered: Jan '04
20893_Kreia
Date Posted: 8/16/07 6:09pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Yes.

 

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Darth_Vader-Anakin 
Registered: Jul '02
14748_Duality IV
Date Posted: 8/16/07 6:28pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Cerrabore posted:
Media Ventures does indeed give up and coming composers a chance for experience, but it's still a fact that the head guy gets a lot of his music written for him. One function of the apprentice system has always been to alleviate the workload of the master. This is reasonable in manual production, but in art? Also, how valuable is the experience if it teaches composers to write in cliched, predictable patterns?


Bingo! That's the biggest problem with Zimmer and his factory. On paper it sounds great -- he's giving young composers a chance to spread their wings -- but if they all end up sounding the same in the end, what's the point? As an artist myself (photographer), I found that the most important thing for me was to learn on my own and develop my own style. Was I influenced by my favorite photographers? Hell yes, but having influences is different than trying sound like someone else. If you are working on a score -- a single work -- that is being primarily written by someone else it's next to impossible to have your own voice. As Cerrabore said, it's teaching these composers to write in almost cookie-cutter patterns. Trying to shake stuff that's been ingrained early in your career is hard. Not impossible, but certainly difficult.

 

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SithLordVengeance 
Registered: Nov '06
23590_Darth Revan
Date Posted: 8/26/07 8:35pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
People can rest easy now...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000VFGQHK/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-3087601-4223163?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

 

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andy1044 
Registered: Aug '06
13782_John Williams
Date Posted: 8/26/07 10:36pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Why, why, why, on earth would you spend $18.98 on a score that is 90% temp music?

 

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elemental_fantasy 
Registered: Mar '06
24215_Anakin
Date Posted: 9/8/07 11:41pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score - Date Edited: 9/8/07 11:42pm (1 edits total) Edited By: elemental_fantasy
what do you mean temp music??? It's all music from the film.

what i wanna know is will it be sold in stores?

 

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Mastadge 
Title:
Manager Emeritus

Registered: Jun '99
6608_Princess Leia
Date Posted: 9/12/07 3:39pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
It's in the film, but blatantly ripped in large part from other films such as The Rock.

That said, I enjoyed and will probably get it when it's released, which will be the first or second week in October, I believe.

I'm more curious, though, about Jablonsky's score to Dragon Wars. I'm hoping for more Steamboy and less 90s Media Venture style.

 

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elemental_fantasy 
Registered: Mar '06
24215_Anakin
Date Posted: 9/15/07 2:38am Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score - Date Edited: 9/15/07 2:41am (1 edits total) Edited By: elemental_fantasy
Yeah, I know what you mean ,I am personally sick of the lack of creativity that is comin outta todays modern composers. It goes past inspiration to the point of rip off, very sad.


Anyhow, here are some D-War samps. from jablonky



http://www.hans-zimmer.com/fr/disco_detail.php?id=712

Also, second week in oct. Oct. 9th is the TF score release date, and if it dont contain the original trailer cue from the launch trailer which also partly appears in the film it aint really too much worth buying imho.

 

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Tatooine_native 
Registered: Sep '03
8052_Tatooine Wasteland
Date Posted: 9/20/07 10:29pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Does anyone know if there's sheet music of this score available?

 

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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon 
Registered: Dec '00
17824_Kieran Halcyon
Date Posted: 9/21/07 6:42am Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Here.

Just mix and match, and eventually you'll get the Transformers score. It's the Media Ventures way. wink

 

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Tatooine_native 
Registered: Sep '03
8052_Tatooine Wasteland
Date Posted: 9/23/07 11:41pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Ha ha. tongue

I found someone's piano version of a couple of TF themes on youtube. Where in the movie does the first part of that music come from?

 

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darth_Boba 
Registered: Aug '02
17820_Boba Fett<br>and Vader
Date Posted: 10/3/07 11:09pm Subject: RE: Transformers Movie Score
Tatooine_native posted:
Where in the movie does the first part of that music come from?
Prime's opening narration.

 

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