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Author	Topic: The Film vs. The Score
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 6/29/07 7:15am Subject: The Film vs. The Score
	I once read a book on film scores wherein Elmer Bernstein said something to the effect of, "Ultimately, your score is only as good as the film it's in." Over the past few years I've found that to be an incredibly insightful statement, as I often have trouble distinguishing my impressions of a score from my impressions of the film it belongs to. Example: I loath Superman Returns, moreso than it technically deserves, because while I would simply be disappointed with a mediocre Superman film, I'm almost offended by a mediocre Superman film that pretends to be on the same level as the wonderful first two Christopher Reeve movies. John Ottman's score for the film is a very nice one, excepting the times when the original JW themes grind up against Ottman's new works, but I find I can't listen to the music on its own without thinking about how WRONG it felt within the context of the movie. I wondered if anyone here might have thoughts or stories about this particular phenomenon...
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Strilo Title: Manager • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/29/07 8:22am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	I don't agree with this at all. I know scores that I like when I don't really like the film much. And of course there are films I love but detest the score. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: R.E.M. "Imitation of Life" #1 on iTunes Film Scores: Harry Potter "A Window to the Past" * * * * * * "And therefore blah blah blah your mom..."
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Darth_Vader-Anakin Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/29/07 9:05am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	Yeah, I don't agree with that either. I have countless amazing scores that were written for dreadful films, and that hasn't affected my enjoyment of the music at all. Sometimes I may listen to the score and remember how awful the film was and chuckle, but that's as far as it goes. Goldsmith, for example, was known for writing great scores for terrible movies where his music was the only ray of sunshine in those films.
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 6/29/07 9:22am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	Well (and Strilo I KNOW you'll disagree on this one ), here's another example. John Williams is one of the greatest film composers ever. His music from the OT is considered some of the best (or at least most famous) film music ever. Aside from a few themes, his music from the PT is not. Ignoring for a moment the well-known cutting and editing issues in AotC and RotS, I'd say that John Williams's scores to the PT suffer from a lack of inspiring action on the screen. It's hard to write an action cue on the same level as "The Asteroid Chase" when you don't have an action scene on the same level as the asteroid chase to set it to. Let me put it another way: My favorite film scores are, for me, a special way of capturing and replaying parts of a particular film, without actually watching the film. They are more than just music; they're the distilled essences of the movies they come from. So I'd call great music written for a terrible movie great music, but not a great score.
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Well_Of_Souls Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/29/07 9:48am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted: Ignoring for a moment the well-known cutting and editing issues in AotC and RotS, I'd say that John Williams's scores to the PT suffer from a lack of inspiring action on the screen. It's hard to write an action cue on the same level as "The Asteroid Chase" when you don't have an action scene on the same level as the asteroid chase to set it to. Well, this is also a result of Williams's ever evolving style, but in essence I agree. I do disagree with the bulk of your opening post, however. Lady in the Water is a great example of a terrible film with a fantastic score. In fact, and the FSM guys said this in their podcast as well, that the score is so good it is almost enough to make you think you're watching a good film. -----signature----- "Okey dokey, Doctor Jones, hold on to your potatoes!"
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Darth_Vader-Anakin Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/29/07 9:52am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score - Date Edited: 6/29/07 9:54am (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth_Vader-Anakin
	I would say that half, if not more, of the scores I own are from films that I have never seen, so connecting film and music is not an overwhelming factor in how much I enjoy the music. That said however, I do agree that when music and picture perfectly compliment one another it makes listening to the music that much more exciting. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted: So I'd call great music written for a terrible movie great music, but not a great score. Don't agree with that. If great music for a terrible movie isn't a great score, is it possible for a bad movie to have a great score? That'd be kind of like saying great cinematography can't be great if it's in a film with an awful plot and script.
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Cerrabore Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 6/29/07 11:27am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	Some composers are better at scoring bad films than others. Elliot Goldenthal wrote an awesome Batman Forever, but to do so he almost had to make fun of the film in his writing. It's a tongue-in-cheek score, that is.
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andy1044 Registered: Aug '06	Date Posted: 6/29/07 11:47am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score - Date Edited: 6/29/07 11:49am (1 edits total) Edited By: andy1044
	The difference between a great score and great music is how the score holds up outside of the movie. You can have an excellent score that fits and enhances the movie, but when listened to outside of the film sounds childish or overly contrived. The great music tag is added if the score still has something to offer once it's separated from the picture. -----signature----- Are you looking for original music for your film? Look no further! Samples of my work can be heard at: http://www.soundclick.com/andyskrabutenas PM me or send an email to andy1044@aol.com if you are interested.
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Whitey Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 6/29/07 3:30pm Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	The Final Conflict, the movie = teh suck The Final Conflict, the score by Jerry Goldsmith = brilliant -----signature----- "There are people who have said that I'm being brave for being openly supportive of gay marriage, gay adoption- basically of gay rights- but with all due respect I humbly dissent. I'm not being brave. I'm being a decent human being." -Anne Hathaway
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General Kenobi Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Dec '98	Date Posted: 6/30/07 5:59pm Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	Many people also cite Goldsmith's score for Star Trek: The Motion Picture as a great score to a lousy film.
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Trentman359 Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 6/30/07 6:26pm Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	This is a question that I have been asking myself recently as I look at the scores that I own. All the scores I own are to films that I highly enjoy. Although I have to admit that there are scores to poor films that are great. Despite that fact that I am a huge Star Trek fan, Jerry Goldsmith has written fantastic scores for all the ST films that he worked on. His score for Star Trek V is that movies only saving grace. His main title for Star Trek First Contact is incredibly noble and moving. So I would have to agree that a great score is always a great score but when you love a movie the score becomes something different. -----signature----- "The Magical Mystery Tour is waiting to take you away"
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 7/1/07 9:38am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	Matrix 2 and 3...the epitome of good music in horrible films. -----signature----- Bantam-Spectra To Release Glove Of Darth Vader, Jedi Academy Trilogy, and Darksaber in special limited-edition 'Dark Hand Of Mediocrity' box set
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TwiLekJedi Title: Classic Trilogy & YJCC Manager Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/1/07 10:19am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	didn't people like the score to Cutthroat Island? -----signature----- We do what we must Because we can For the good of all of us Except the ones who are dead
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Strilo Title: Manager • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/1/07 10:22am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	DarthBoba posted: Matrix 2 and 3...the epitome of good music in horrible films. See I would say good (2) and great (3) films and lousy scores. And yes, Star Trek TMP is the perfect example of a great score from a lousy film. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: R.E.M. "Imitation of Life" #1 on iTunes Film Scores: Harry Potter "A Window to the Past" * * * * * * "And therefore blah blah blah your mom..."
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Well_Of_Souls Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/1/07 12:37pm Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	TwiLekJedi posted: didn't people like the score to Cutthroat Island? Indeed, it's considered a modern classic. -----signature----- "Okey dokey, Doctor Jones, hold on to your potatoes!"
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NZPoe Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 8/6/07 12:27am Subject: RE: The Film vs. The Score
	"Cutthroat Island" is pretty much the end of this discussion as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the most coveted, appreciated and talked about film scores of the modern age and my DEAR GOD THE MOVIE IS SO AWFUL !
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