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Author	Topic: _____ vs. _____
darthsith19 Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 4/4 9:41pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Death Star zamwesell44 posted: It matters to a point, but skill is more important, so Kenobi>Mundi, and Mundi being in good shape does not mean he so much stronger than every other jedi, he's not. Again, Mundi > Kenobi in an unarmed fight (due to size) unless you can prove that Kenobi is above avg. at unarmed combat. Can you? zamwesell44 posted: Are you being serious?? To say that Kelly Pavlik is not strong, are you that dumb? Look at that pic. He is 6'2 and a half and only weighs 160 at his heaviest. That is NOT strong. This is strong: He's only 6'0 and weighs 203. That's what strong is. Again, Pavlik is not strong, he's good in the ring because of speed and endurance. zamwesell44 posted: Wow. You have obviously never watched a boxing match in your life. Kelly is not fast, and is in his mid 20's and doesn't have much experieince, he beats people with skill and brute power. He has overpowered everybody he has ever fought. You don't knock world class fighters out with one punch if you are not strong. I've watched boxing, and I know that boxing is all about speed "clock the speed on that punch." It's all about moving around your opponent, swinging fast, dodging punches ect. speed is a huge factor. Don't use your "you must never have watched boxing" on me because I have so your bs isn't going to work. Ask any boxer, speed is a huge factor. zamwesell44 posted: So which one of these guys do you think is stonger? I guess the guy that is bigger and more ripped right? The man on the left is stronger, idk about more ripped, Pavlik looks skinnier (that's another thing he's that skinny and his muscle still is hardly showing at all). If Pavlik beat him it's due to speed, endurance, stamina, pain tolerance ect. Rossa83 posted: Look, clothes can't hide muscles that bad - if you look at the pictures you see that Mundi's arm isn't big when his robe is tight to them - Arnold fills his suit!! Look at the bottom of his sleeve, it isn't completely tight. Arnold does pretty much fill his suit but you can't see his muscles through there it could be fat or whatever, you would never expect him to look how he does without a shirt on. Same with Mundi. Rossa83 posted: Even a well trained 80 year old shouldn't be a match for a fit 30 year old. If he's stronger, besides, Dooku is in much better shape than most 80 year olds because his Jedi training and the Force has kept his body young and in good shape. Rossa83 posted: Take Man Utd's Vidic as an example. He doesn't look strong - he's very slim, but name one player who can take him out in a power-duel? I googled that guy he's a soccer player. What is a power-duel? Rossa83 posted: Some are strong but don't show it - Coleman is the largest bodybuilder, considerably bigger than Arnold even - yet Arnold benched more... Really? I have searched the web looking for how much Arnold could bench but never found it. Ronnie can bench 400 lbs. for 12 reps. How much can Arnold bench? Also note than Arnold was a powerlifter before he became a bodybuilder so he has much more training with bench pressing than Coleman, who was never a powerlifter. But realize that you're arguing here that people can be strong even if they don't look strong... but can you prove that this is true for Kenobi? Rossa83 posted: Yoda's saber was shorter, correct - but he fends off Sideous twice (at least one of them he is blocking Sideous's saber in the middle - thus your argument is flawed How is my arguement flawed. o matter where he is blocking Sidious's saber, his lightsaber is still much shorter and his arms are shorter, too, and his lightsaber is closer to his body, giving him a vast advantage. Take a 40 foot long stick and try getting in a saber lock with someone who has a 1 foot long stick, you could be Ronnie Coleman and the other guy could be Kelly Pavlik, but you'd still lose the saber lock with a 40 foot long stick (well, maybe not against Pavlik... ) Rossa83 posted: look at how Dooku blocks Anakin and OBW in ROTS - at the very tip, yet hold off both... They are locked with the tip of their blades, Dooku's using the end closest to his handle, thus giving him the leverage advantage. zamwesell44 posted: Anakin is level 9 swordsman the same as Mace, and Mace could never take out Dooku the way Anakin did. Do not make me go through all the advantages Anakin had over Dooku again, plus if he tried that dark side **** with Mace it would be counter-productive because Vaapad excels at turning the users anger back at them. You know this. ANH Obi-Wan vs. ROTJ Luke
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Rossa83 Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 4/5 3:33am Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Close call. ROTS OBW would pwn him. ANH OBW would be at least as powerful as ROTS OBW in the force - I'm somewhat unsure about his saber skills, but even if they had deteriorated a bit, he would still be better than Luke! (OBW is said to have been more powerful than Vader by ANH) You can't argue that Mundi was that big and muscular in the movies - the pic I showed you clearly shows that his shoulders are small for instance - his legs also! If you look at this picture, you see his shoulders are almost as narrow as the girl standing next to him: Man Utd is a soccer/football club, so Vidic would play soccer, yep He's quite skinny but never loses a duel - powerduel was just my terrible name for when they have to use brute force to win a duel... - he never loses, not even against those who are bigger and a lot more muscular! Although, you can clearly see that you don't want to mess with the dude Arnold beat the European benchpress record which was 510lbs - he then took 520 and more - not exactly sure about his alltime record. Coleman struggled the life out of him with 470! OBW did quite well in a fist fight with Fett who I'm sure is no slouch! Maul vs TPM Dooku
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Nichtganz Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 4/5 7:05am Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Maul He had the greatest liklihood of becoming the greatest sith warrior in his time, instead his arrogance causes his downfall. His lightsaber skill surpassed Dooku and palps, and he was only a apprentice. -----signature----- Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur.
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darthsith19 Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 4/5 11:35am Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Rossa83 posted: You can't argue that Mundi was that big and muscular in the movies - the pic I showed you clearly shows that his shoulders are small for instance - his legs also! If you look at this picture, you see his shoulders are almost as narrow as the girl standing next to him: He is standing at more of an angle to the camera than she is, and I could just as easily say that that picture isn't canon as you could saw the pic of muscular Mundi isn't canon. Rossa83 posted: Arnold beat the European benchpress record which was 510lbs - he then took 520 and more - not exactly sure about his alltime record. Coleman struggled the life out of him with 470! OBW did quite well in a fist fight with Fett who I'm sure is no slouch! When did Ronnie struggle to bench 470? If he can bench 400 lbs 12 times I doubt 470 would stop him. Fett is good in unarmed combat, yes, for a regular human. Any Jedi Knight, who can use the Force to enhance their speed and foresight, should be more than a match for him, though. For example, Darth Bane, before he received any Sith Training, went up against 3 Republic Soldiers at once, with no weapons. Two of the soldiers had no weapons, one of them had a vibroblade. Bane killed the one witht he vibroblade and the others fled. If someone with no Force Training can do that, a Jedi Knight with training in unarmed combat (all jedi are trained in unarmed combat) should be able to handle any non-Force user in unarmed combat. Only Durge is a special case because he hardly ever gets hurt and is so huge. Nichtganz posted: He had the greatest liklihood of becoming the greatest sith warrior in his time, instead his arrogance causes his downfall. His lightsaber skill surpassed Dooku and palps, and he was only a apprentice. I agree with you that Maul is strong, and I am a Maul fan, but none fo that is true. The TPM novel stated that Maul was already at his prime. Also, as Maul's final test before becoming a Sith Lord, he fought Sidious in saber combat, and Sidious made Maul really pissed off so that Maul would go all-out, and Maul almost killed Sidious. Almost, but he didn't. PoD Bane vs. Dooku (ROTS)
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ZamWesell44 Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 4/5 12:40pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Dooku beats Maul and POD Bane darthsith19 posted: Again, Mundi > Kenobi in an unarmed fight (due to size) unless you can prove that Kenobi is above avg. at unarmed combat. He looked certainly above average fighting Anakin and Jango. darthsith19 posted: Look at that pic. He is 6'2 and a half and only weighs 160 at his heaviest. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, 160 is what he weighs in the weigh in, and his last fight he fought 166. He usually steps in the ring somewhere in the 170's. And my whole point about showing Kelly was it does not matter how ripped you are. Skill is more important, but in Kelly's case its skill and freakish punching power. darthsith19 posted: That's what strong is. Again, Pavlik is not strong, he's good in the ring because of speed and endurance. darthsith19 posted: The man on the left is stronger, I think we should stop talking about boxing, b/c you have no idea what you are talking about. And Kelly beat Miranda by completly overpowering him, you obviously did not see the fight. darthsith19 posted: with Mace it would be counter-productive because Vaapad excels at turning the users anger back at them. You know this. Ok and Dooku's saber form is the only one just for dueling so that always gives him an advantage as well. Plo Koon,ROTS v Quinlan Vos,ROTS
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darthsith19 Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 4/5 2:03pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Plo zamwesell44 posted: He looked certainly above average fighting Anakin and Jango. darthsith19 posted: Fett is good in unarmed combat, yes, for a regular human. Any Jedi Knight, who can use the Force to enhance their speed and foresight, should be more than a match for him, though. For example, Darth Bane, before he received any Sith Training, went up against 3 Republic Soldiers at once, with no weapons. Two of the soldiers had no weapons, one of them had a vibroblade. Bane killed the one witht he vibroblade and the others fled. If someone with no Force Training can do that, a Jedi Knight with training in unarmed combat (all jedi are trained in unarmed combat) should be able to handle any non-Force user in unarmed combat. Only Durge is a special case because he hardly ever gets hurt and is so huge. And we've already been over the Kenobi vs. Anakin fight, and Anakin proved stronger than Kenobi there. Want to discuss it again? zamwesell44 posted: Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, 160 is what he weighs in the weigh in, and his last fight he fought 166. He usually steps in the ring somewhere in the 170's. And my whole point about showing Kelly was it does not matter how ripped you are. Skill is more important, but in Kelly's case its skill and freakish punching power. Weight-ins usually take place 24 hours before the fight. It is not possible to gain 6 lbs of muscle in 24 hours, if he gained 6+ lbs (+ since 160 is the very most he could have weighed during the weigh-in) it would have been 6 lbs. of fat. And 166 at 6'2 and a half isn't strong. That other guy I posted a picture of is strong, and he's 6'0, 203 lbs. "skill is more important", okay, and prove that Kenobi is more than avg. at unarmed fighting. zamwesell44 posted: I think we should stop talking about boxing, b/c you have no idea what you are talking about. And Kelly beat Miranda by completly overpowering him, you obviously did not see the fight. Post a link to a youtube video of it and I'll watch it, or better yet tell me how he overpowered him. Again when throwing punches speed is as big a factor as strength is. zamwesell44 posted: Ok and Dooku's saber form is the only one just for dueling so that always gives him an advantage as well. Wrong, no matter if somebody uses the dark side or the light side against Dooku, Dooku's form works the same. With Mace's form, if somebody switches from lightside to darkside fighting, Mace only gets stronger because of his form. Plus, as stated like 100 times, Anakin's Djem So had too much force behind it for Dooku's Makashi, but Mace's Vaapad would just turn the force back against Anakin, because that's what Vaapad does. zamwesell44 posted: Dooku beats Maul and POD Bane Half of that statement is true; PoD Bane would beat Dooku. He has mastered the forum that Makashi is weak against. If Dooku's Makashi can't handle the forceful blows of Anakin's Djem So there's no way it will hold out against Bane's Djem So. Bane also lasted a loooooooong time in a duel against Kas'im, who was stated to be "the best swordsman of his era, perhaps of any era." and who matered all the lightsaber forums and then spent everyday honing his saber skills. And Bane almost beat him, and he did beat him with the Force, as he knocked down a huge temple with a Force Wave. Dooku would be crushed by Bane's power. As a last final straw, the cover-flap of Path of Destruction states that Bane is stronger than the entire Brotherhood of Darkness combined! It's ridiculous, but it's canon. Kas'im vs. ROTS Mace Windu
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Darthbane2007 Registered: Oct '07	Date Posted: 4/5 4:33pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Obi-Wan LOTF Luke vs. Chuck Norris
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ZamWesell44 Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 4/5 4:53pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Mace darthsith19 posted: and Anakin proved stronger than Kenobi there. yes, but they were close, and Anakin's strength is described from things he did in the novel, it's not just b/c he looked ripped in a comic. Kenobi was a physical match for Anakin. darthsith19 posted: and prove that Kenobi is more than avg. at unarmed fighting. He showed when he fought Jango, just b/c he has the force does not mean he can beat every normal person up, especially when they have a bunch of weapons and a jet pack. darthsith19 posted: Post a link to a youtube video of it and I'll watch it, or better yet tell me how he overpowered him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJwtmv86x8 Edison is in there, and last guy who was much faster than him was beating on all the scorecards and then Kelly landed one big punch and won the fight. On Edison, he backed him up on the ropes within 15 seconds from power punces, Edison Miranda is very strong but does not hit as hard as Kelly. Bottom line just b/c somebody looks stronger than somebody does mean they are. darthsith19 posted: Wrong, no matter if somebody uses the dark side or the light side against Dooku, Dooku's form works the same. With Mace's form, if somebody switches from lightside to darkside fighting, Mace only gets stronger because of his form. Plus, as stated like 100 times, Anakin's Djem So had too much force behind it for Dooku's Makashi, You have always put way to much on saber forms, Especially Vaapad Anakin did not beat Dooku b/c he uses form V, he beat him b/c when he used the darkside he was than him. Mace would beat Dooku in a straight saber fight b/c he is better, a level 9, it is not b/c he uses Vaapad. Count Dooku is stronger in the force than Mace and is very close with him in sabers. darthsith19 posted: but Mace's Vaapad would just turn the force back against Anakin, because that's what Vaapad does. Buy that logic anybody that uses Vaapad could beat Anakin. So who would win a straight saber fight between Depa and ROTS Anakin w/ the darkside? Darth Bane, Kas'im v Kenobi,ROTS, Dooku,AOTC
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darthsith19 Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 4/5 10:41pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____ - Date Edited: 4/5 10:59pm (2 edits total) Edited By: darthsith19
	Bane or Kas'im could take Dooku, while the other takes Kenobi. Even you can't deny, Zam, that Bane could whip kenobi w/ the Force like how Dooku did, and then together Bane and Kas'im would beat Dooku for sure. zamwesell44 posted: yes, but they were close, and Anakin's strength is described from things he did in the novel, it's not just b/c he looked ripped in a comic. Got any quotes of that strength he has? Also, that frame you posted a pic of, what part of the duel was that? I can't remember that part. zamwesell44 posted: He showed when he fought Jango, just b/c he has the force does not mean he can beat every normal person up, especially when they have a bunch of weapons and a jet pack. The weapons and jetpack mean nothing, since I remember unarmed Kenobi losing when Jango used all his weapons and gadgets. ANd yes, any Force User who can't beat a regular human in an unarmed fight sucks. You never see it happen anywhere else, do you? If Agen Kolar can whoop about 20 goons in mere seconds in unarmed combat, and Bane, before receiving training, can beat two unarmed oppoents and another armed with a vibro blade while possessing no weapons himself, any fully trained Force user should be able to beat a regular hman in unarmed combat, Jeid have insight, they can see what their opponent is going to. Kenobi holding off Jango means nothing. zamwesell44 posted: You have always put way to much on saber forms, Especially Vaapad Anakin did not beat Dooku b/c he uses form V, he beat him b/c when he used the darkside he was than him. Mace would beat Dooku in a straight saber fight b/c he is better, a level 9, it is not b/c he uses Vaapad. Count Dooku is stronger in the force than Mace and is very close with him in sabers. You have always put too little on saber forms, what form the users use can make a difference in a fight especially when they are close anyways. Anakin using the dark side against Dooku isn't the only reason he won, it was also his saber forum. If he had mastered Soresu instead of Djem So, and used the dark side on Dooku it wouldn't help him one bit, or if he used Ataru, because it was the forceful blows that got Dooku, which was a combinitation of the anger and Djem So (which focus on swinging the saber had with a lot of force behind each swing). zamwesell44 posted: Buy that logic anybody that uses Vaapad could beat Anakin. So who would win a straight saber fight between Depa and ROTS Anakin w/ the darkside? Unknown. I am saying though that since Mace and Anakin are close already, Anakin could not do to Mace what he did to Dooku, and notice that I never actually said Mace would beat Anakin, I just thought your logic was bad. Mace is #1 with a saber though, Anakin is on Sidious's level and Mace beat Sidious (Lucas confirms that in the saber duel Mace overpowered him, it wasn't Sidious holding back). Do note, though, that Depa, and Sora, didn't master Vaapad, Vaapad mastered them, so they might not be able to reflect Anakin's anger back at him like Mace could. zamwesell44 posted: Edison is in there, and last guy who was much faster than him was beating on all the scorecards and then Kelly landed one big punch and won the fight. On Edison, he backed him up on the ropes within 15 seconds from power punces, Edison Miranda is very strong but does not hit as hard as Kelly. Bottom line just b/c somebody looks stronger than somebody does mean they are. I just watched it, Edison never got any punches on Pavlik like the last few Pavlik got on him. A solid head shot in the right place can knock somebody out. It doesn't mean Pavlik is stronger than Edison, he just got an opening and knocked him down. Against Taylor, at first Taylor couldn't get a good punch in, the commentator even says "but those punches aren't landing clean, as far as I can see." Because Pavlik was moving his head to take the Force of the punches away. And, those punches are fast, boxers do punch fast no matter what you say. And some of those times Pavlik was just wailing on Taylor in order to take him down as well it isn't always one punch. At the end it was a series of punches followed by one final hit that connected in the right place and knocked him out, that isn't just strength, all those punches added up, the pain may have overwhelmed Taylor, or the final punch hit him in just the right spot, plus, whatever you say, it was fast. Depa Billaba (AOTC) vs. Asajj Ventress (Obsession)
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DarkStarkiller Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 4/6 12:43am Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	I'll say Ventress AOTC Mace vs. Grevious and Maul
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Darthbane2007 Registered: Oct '07	Date Posted: 4/6 9:41am Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Mace ROTS Mace Vs. Darth Krayt
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ZamWesell44 Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 4/8 12:48pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Mace darthsith19 posted: Got any quotes of that strength he has? Also, that frame you posted a pic of, what part of the duel was that? I can't remember that part. It's in the novel I know its mentioned in the end fight, I don't have the novel. And that picture is of the final duel in the movie, They both push at each other and neither one really goes anywhere. darthsith19 posted: Unknown. That's ridiculous, you could say that on alot of these vs's, ROTS Anakin was a level 9 and w/out a doubt one of the best pure saber fighters in all of star wars, and you think the vs is unkown just b/c of vaapad, yeah you don't put to much on saber forms. Darth Nihilus v Kol Skywalker
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emma_thehandmaiden Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/8 3:19pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Kol Skywalker...maybe. Anakin(ROTS[before evil] & AOTC) vs. Vader. ^it's possible. if any of you have played Episode III for xbox, you can fight Vader as Anakin. It gave a sense of...I don't know...that maybe Anakin could not turn to the Dark Side. Sad.... -----signature----- I will not defer. I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a Committee! If this body is not capable of action...I suggest new Leadership is needed. -Queen Amidala
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DarkStarkiller Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 4/9 3:07pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Anakin. Vader is Anakin with 80% less Force power, plus his saber skills as suited Vader aren't that great. AOTC Ki-Adi and Maul vs. ROTS Kenobi
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emma_thehandmaiden Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/9 4:56pm Subject: RE: _____ vs. _____
	Obi-Wan. [It would be a close call, but Kenobi's got ittt. ;D ] Obi-Wan(ROTS) and Windu(AOTC) vs. Dooku(AOTC) and Grievous -----signature----- I will not defer. I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a Committee! If this body is not capable of action...I suggest new Leadership is needed. -Queen Amidala
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