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Topic:
Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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KenKenobi
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/4 2:48am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
- Date Edited:
5/4 2:59am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
KenKenobi
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Actually, I don't think Mace takes that obviously at all. But I am interested in what "prep" actually involves too. Though, so long as it allows for physical contact, I think "doozy" becomes "bust." 
In other news, I'm going to drop Luke Skywalker and pick up Zizz.
Talonbi: I'd say something about fear leading to the dark side, but, like...you have a dark side team.
First I am not sure what Mara Jade adds in a strategy wise.
So many things that could be said to that, so little time.
He defeated an Obi-wan Kenobi/Anakin Skywalker trump
No, he didn't defeat them trumped. Skywalker runs at him, gets tossed aside. Kenobi battles him a bit, gets cut and falls. Skywalker hops up and saves him, and is all over Dooks until he makes a mistake. Now that doesn't really matter all too much here, but I just had them both last Draft. So I had to. 
Anyways, skipping over listed comparisons of experience (unless anyone wants to sit and read a mile-long post about Luke's gazillion exploits) let's simply consider how this battle could play out.
It's clear from the RotS Novelization that Dooku thinks of Maul as basically an animal-- which, well, Maul basically is, and he easily falls into Dooku's "Assets" category. So, let's consider Scenario A-- Dooku uses Maul strategically, as a tool. He throws him at Luke as a Jedi-killing weapon and simultaneously launches Force attacks and takes open shots at Skywalker throughout the course of the duel, hoping to completely wear him down before finishing him off, if not outright killing him there.
The problem with this, of course, is that Dooku's abilities in the Force are absolutely dwarfed by Luke's, and even with that support Maul is no match for Skywalker. Lightning blasts? He's taken AT-AT fire point-blank into his palm. Force choke? Not gonna do too well against Luke after DE. Telekinesis? Luke couldn't be moved by the combined Force energy of billions of beings in DN, and counters with offense of his own capable of blasting apart castles. It's not as if being engaged with Maul is going to hamper this, either. Luke's not only experienced with multiple opponents, but in this very type of situation-- destroying Welk and the Killik army on Kr while the Unseen Queen lived up to her name and launched attacks from the dark. Thus, the situation would quickly become bleak for the Sith-- Luke fends off Dooks while dismantling Maul, then turns to the remaining member of the trump, who probably would rather take his chances back on the Invisible Hand.
So, Scenario B-- Dooku and Maul fight Luke directly in tandem, attacking with both their lightsabers and their Force powers together in an attempt to simply overhwelm him. By striking at the same time, Luke is forced not only to match their Force attacks and the speed of three blades coming at different angles, but also to defend against the range of styles, in both the double-bladed physicality of Maul's Form VII and the fencing precision of Dooku's Form II.
The problem with this, of course, is that Luke is able to do just that. He's faced three blades and more at a time before (and in fact more than just blades, e.g. venom-spitting amphistaffs) alongside Force and other supporting attacks (wolvkils, schostri, thud/razor bugs, Killiks, etc.). Once again, his own use of the Force isn't hindered by this either, evidenced by Yun-Yuuzhan knows how many Force-users he's faced in his day, and examples such as controlling a whirlwind of boulders whilst dispatching Yuuzhan Vong warriors when saving Jacen on Belkadan. Speed-wise, he's absolutely phenomenal, to the point of not even being physically seen (even with Force-enhanced senses), perceived as only a storm Force energy-- and not just by any Force-sensitives, but his sister (DE) and nephew/niece (TUF), who are instrinsically connected to him in the first place. Form-wise, he already defeated the man (Vader) standing as a "powerful living product of the ancient Jedi sword traditions from time immemorial," and with "little formal training" (FS). Not to mention the fact that Maul's style is mirrored in the enraged physical focus of the slayers (of which Luke took on in a blur four at a time, on three different sides), and Dooku's Makashi is facing an even greater incarnation of Form V than in RotS.
Now, I suppose there could be other ways to go about it, but those are the two scenarios that seem most obvious. I mean Maul could always play the role of attacking from the wings while Dooku's dives directly into the battle, but not only do I think that approach would be significantly weaker, but would also go against both Maul and Dooku's personalities. Still, to touch this fully and avoid being labeled as any kind of straw-man argument, let's go ahead and throw in...
Scenario C-- Dooku and Maul devise a completely different and radical strategy than those mentioned above. Perhaps they have something up their sleeve. Perhaps both having been Palps' pupils leads them to a new approach in that vein. Perhaps they try to pull a Kenobi/Skywalker and trick Luke into a false confidence. Something. Anything.
The problem with this, of course, is that it's Luke Skywalker. He's the most experienced person in the entire Draft, which goes a long way in helping one quickly improvise and adapt-- which he's already shown to do tremendously, and from the very beginning of his Jedi career, such as mirroring Vader's Form V to the point that "an observing Jedi Master would've been astonished at such instantaneous learning in battle" (FS). With such a massive power advantage, boosting his skill refined through decades of incredible experience (what a cliche sentence so far, eh?), throwing something new at Luke here might only make him break a sweat.
Except, heh...he's prepped here. He knows who he's facing, and he's got an entire day beforehand to prepare. An entire day to plan out the fight. An entire day to meditate and gather strength and calm through the Force.
An entire day with the smoking redhead that is his wife.
Really, they're gonna need George Lucas in their pocket or something.
And in other news, I'm considering picking up Darth Talon to merge with Kenobi, creating Talonbi.
EDIT: Why did I just do that? This isn't even the real deal yet. And I have finals. And those "in other news" comments weren't even funny.
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The invasion corridor looked interestingly similar to a J.
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Talon_Kenobi
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
5/4 6:57am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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The day would probably ruin it for Luke. He would either a)spend the entire time making out with Mara or b) Realize that he might fall to the darkside and decide not to fight.
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New_York_Jedi
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
5/4 8:16am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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If I had to spend an entire day with Mara I'd probably intentionally get myself killed.
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DarthIntegral
Title: Manager
SWC & Arena
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/4 9:14am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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Those last two posts are made out of win.
But I'd like to hear an argument or two for Anakin before I make a judgment.
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halibut gave me 15 respect points
I think he's just trying to bribe his way towards victory in Forum Feud
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"Faith will bring a way to the impossible"
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New_York_Jedi
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
5/4 9:25am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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Well Anakin is definitely more powerful. And if you think Palps was throwing the fight with Mace, a lot of Mace's value goes down. And Anakin is pretty damn skilled- as good a practioner of Form V as Dooku had ever seen, right before Anakin gave him a haircut starting at the neck line. And I feel Vaapad may not be the best form against Anakin- it draws on the darkside, kind ofish, and that atmosphere would probably help Skywalker tap into his darkside potential, and we know how devestating that can be.
And Anakin has hair.
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DarthIntegral
Title: Manager
SWC & Arena
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/4 10:32pm
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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So, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe if there was natural cohesion between Maul and Dooku, I'd swing this match their way, but there isn't. And maybe, maybe, maybe if Dooku probably didn't harbor some animosity towards Maul for the whole killing Qui-Gon thing, I'd think about swinging this match to the trump.
But, no, Luke is just too damned good. Even for a trump this good. I mean, if you were looking to try to be a Luke Killer, you should have trumped Sidious and Dooku. That would have gotten it done.
But this trump makes him work really hard. Heck, Dooku makes him work very hard. But in the end, Luke is the winner.
And I really want to give the second match to Anakin, I do, but I think Mace is just a bit better. Not by much, but just a little bit. So, yeah, Mace
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halibut gave me 15 respect points
I think he's just trying to bribe his way towards victory in Forum Feud
Sey's big brother
"Faith will bring a way to the impossible"
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Kyptastic
Title: Manager Emeritus
SWD Co-Commish
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/5 2:47am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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Have to agree with Integral here
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Valar Morghulis
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DarthIntegral
Title: Manager
SWC & Arena
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/5 4:02am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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Emperor's New Groove (0) vs. Team Rufio (1)
Yoda and His Merry Men (1) vs. Ko He shin (0)
Let's try P4 this time
Jagged Fel TRUMPED with Turr Phennir (Prepared by Grand Admiral Thrawn) vs. Derek "Hobbie" Kilvian
Corran Horn vs. Saesee Tiin
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halibut gave me 15 respect points
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Sey's big brother
"Faith will bring a way to the impossible"
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EmpireForever
Title: Awesomesauce Census & Games mod and definite girl
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/5 6:12am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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I realize he's, like, the jedi and stuff, but don't you think maybe, maybe, it's time to say goodbye to Luke? Don't you think that someone who requires a trump of first round talent to be defeated is probably, maybe, almost a little bit too much for a draft list?
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DarthIntegral
Title: Manager
SWC & Arena
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/5 6:20am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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I'd agree with you ... if we saw Luke teams dominating because Luke is a team buster. He's simply not. As long as he goes #1, and most of the people drafting make competent picks, Luke won't beat a team by himself. Until he becomes a team buster on a regular basis, he's just an auto-win in individual matches, and you pray your top guy or your best trump don't hit him (or you follow Inty's rules which say NEVER trump against a Luke team)
For these matches, they seem pretty simple to me:
That trump has overkill without Thrawn (I'd put Jag Fel over Hobbie by himself)
And as high as I am on Corran as a pilot, I like Tiin better.
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halibut gave me 15 respect points
I think he's just trying to bribe his way towards victory in Forum Feud
Sey's big brother
"Faith will bring a way to the impossible"
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EmpireForever
Title: Awesomesauce Census & Games mod and definite girl
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/5 7:48am
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
- Date Edited:
5/5 7:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
EmpireForever
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I guess most first rounders are practically auto-wins, but it seems like he can handle at least the other team's top two by himself, and if you draft solidly the rest of the way, I don't see how that team could lose. I guess I just find it boring that there is absolutely no discussion left with him. He cannot lose to anyone or any trump(if it's a normal draft you're not going to have Sidious and Dooku unless there's a huge trade), and with just a decent team, he shouldn't lose there either.
I'm not, like, pressing for that or anything, I was just wondering what it would be like without him for once. I mean, there's first round talent, and then there's the first pick, who seems a round above everyone else.
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Talon_Kenobi
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
5/5 12:30pm
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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Yeah...I realized now I over killed a lot, which would have worked, if it wasn't for Luke and his wife named Mara. Although is Sidious hits Obi-wan everything will be fine.
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Draft Team: Kenobi's Talons
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Li_Sakai
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/5 1:31pm
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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Hobbie should bite it - any arguments for the other one?
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GO SUPER EAGLES GO
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New_York_Jedi
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
5/5 2:19pm
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
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As good as Corran is, his force advantage is neutralized against Tiin- Tiin is a master himself, and an alien species which Corran has trouble reading anyways (Ooryl).
and since I'm lazy, I'll just quote Talon_Kenobi from the SFD .
Talon_Kenobi posted:
Saesee Tiin:
-Natural Telepathic ability
-Enhanced Force Telepathic ability
-Able to pilot the atmosphere of Iktotch, even before becoming a Jedi
-Took part in Stark Hyperspace wars
-Led Red and Blue Squadron at Fifth Battle of Qotile
-So intuned with the force he was able to instinctively use the Force and active the hyperdrive for a split second transporting a ship out of danger to the other end of a planet
-His ship is modified to his specificity
-Took out THREE battle ships by himself, without a single hit being hit on him
-One of the top Generals in the Clone Wars
-Fought countless battles during Clone Wars
-Fought at The Battle of Coruscant
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The_Loyal_Imperial
Title: YAHTZEE and Blackjack Host
EUS Chancellor
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/5 2:29pm
Subject:
RE: Third Installment of the 2007 Jedi Draft [USWD Trial Underway]
- Date Edited:
5/5 2:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
The_Loyal_Imperial
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For my side of things: we've only really got a couple of years of experience for Tiin. We've got over a decade of experience for Corran, plus engagements during the Yuuzhan Vong and Confederation Wars. Couple of decades of being a Jedi Master there, too, so he's pretty much Saesee's equal in that area. He's got the Rogue Squadron experience and training there, especially with how he performed back when he was only starting out.
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Attack of the Clones was released May 16, 2002.
Star Wars: Republic covered the Clone Wars starting Jan 22, 2003.
What's the next big Star Wars project? Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Fall 2008.
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