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Topic:
The Films Of Martin Scorsese: Sinatra Biopic?
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severian28
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 7:36am
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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Princess_Tina posted:
While I wouldn't dispute the assertion that Scorsese is the best American director working today, I also wouldn't pay much attention to the Oscars.
Alfred Hitchcock never won an Oscar. It sometimes just comes down to Academy members being a bit jealous of how brilliant a filmmaker is...
The big difference was that Hitchcock never gave a rats ass about the award and publically stated so, whilst Scorsese does care about winning it and has also said as much. He sees it as east coast filmmakers - the ones that STAY on the east coast - get shafted, as much as he feels that his talent deserves it. Thats one of the main reasons he made The Aviator, and it didnt get him the Oscar. I thought he should have gotten one for Taxi Driver and thats where the feud really begins because he wasnt even nominated, but I can definetely understand why he wouldnt have won if he were as it was such a risque film ( it really still is ). However, Raging Bull and Goodfellas I cannot understand. Those should have been clear victories.
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" Dying all the time. Lose your dreams and you will lose your mind. Aint life unkind? " - The Rolling Stones
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 7:49am
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
- Date Edited:
10/2/06 7:50am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Princess_Tina
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severian28 posted:
Princess_Tina posted:
While I wouldn't dispute the assertion that Scorsese is the best American director working today, I also wouldn't pay much attention to the Oscars.
Alfred Hitchcock never won an Oscar. It sometimes just comes down to Academy members being a bit jealous of how brilliant a filmmaker is...
The big difference was that Hitchcock never gave a rats ass about the award and publically stated so, whilst Scorsese does care about winning it and has also said as much. He sees it as east coast filmmakers - the ones that STAY on the east coast - get shafted, as much as he feels that his talent deserves it. Thats one of the main reasons he made The Aviator, and it didnt get him the Oscar. I thought he should have gotten one for Taxi Driver and thats where the feud really begins because he wasnt even nominated, but I can definetely understand why he wouldnt have won if he were as it was such a risque film ( it really still is ). However, Raging Bull and Goodfellas I cannot understand. Those should have been clear victories.
The point I was trying to make is that the Oscar doesn't necessarily recognize truly brilliant directors. In theory, if the awards were truly about recognizing excellence, then the Academy shouldn't even consider whether the artist(s) involved have expressed an interest in getting the Oscar, or have said publicly that they couldn't care less about the award.
But as we all know, the Academy Awards also involve a certain amount of show-biz politics, and other considerations that have to do with things other than craftmanship or artistic excellence. Some people would even go so far as to say that it's a bit of a popularity contest, or like a high-school election.
If Scorsese has said he does care about getting the Oscar, I would respect that, but in my own humble view, he'd still be just as brilliant whether or not he gets an Oscar.
I think we all know the Oscars don't always get it "right" -- and perhaps in some strange way the Academy likes it that way, because it keeps movie fans and film buffs talking about the Oscar, and keeps it from becoming irrelevant. There are other awards that would arguably be a better indicator of aesthetic value (the National Society of Film Critics awards, NY film critics awards, etc.) but nobody talks about those very much, because they don't have a telecast and they don't seem to have much controversy. 
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severian28
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 9:09am
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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That is true.
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" Bring the sled " - Al Swearengen
" Dying all the time. Lose your dreams and you will lose your mind. Aint life unkind? " - The Rolling Stones
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 11:55am
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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The Academy has a tendency to review zeitgeist films that don't always wear well.
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 2:57pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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Zaz posted:
The Academy has a tendency to review zeitgeist films that don't always wear well.
Yeah I think a certain amount of "group think" is involved. Most Academy members, at least in the best-paid positions, are probably pretty isolated from anyone who's not in show business.
Directors in the East coast tend to be a bit above that, I think, and it goes as much for Marty as it does for Woody Allen, Spike Lee, etc.
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JohnWesleyDowney
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 3:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
- Date Edited:
10/2/06 3:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
JohnWesleyDowney
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Okay, here's the way it usually works.
Any time a director who is also a former or even current actor
gets nominated for best directing Oscar, he has a VERY good chance
of winning? Why? Because the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and
Sciences has a voting block that is filled with far more actors than any
other category. Once you are nominated, you get to vote in future Oscar
races and there are FOUR acting categories every year with 5 nominees.
Over the years, those numbers have accumulated in the voting block.
When they see "one of their own" is up for a DIRECTING
award (and a lot of actors HATE directors) that actor-director is going
to get a heck of a lot of votes, probably far more than the other nominees
who are merely director-directors.
Cases in point:
WARREN BEATTY - Reds
KEVIN COSTNER - Dances with Wolves
ROBERT REDFORD - Ordinary People
MEL GIBSON - Braveheart
There you go. It's political. Costner got an Oscar on THE FIRST movie he directed.
Redford got an Oscar on THE FIRST movie he directed. Gibson got an Oscar on THE SECOND
movie he directed. Not bad for novice directors, eh?
That's why Scorcese's RAGING BULL lost to Redford for ORDINARY PEOPLE.
Redford's an actor. Not that he didn't do a good job.
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Have you heard about the new book about the Dumbest Generation? http://dumbestgeneration.com/
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 4:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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I thought Ordinary People was actually the better movie, being one of the best films about grief I've ever seen. But Scorsese was definitely the better director that year.
Yeah, I just not long ago finally connected the dots: Thelma Schoonmaker, Scorsese's brilliant and longtime editor, is the widow of Michael Powell. It all clicked for me.
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
10/2/06 4:44pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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JohnWesleyDowney posted:
When they see "one of their own" is up for a DIRECTING
award (and a lot of actors HATE directors) that actor-director is going
to get a heck of a lot of votes, probably far more than the other nominees
who are merely director-directors.
[Spock]Interesting... [/Spock]
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severian28
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
10/5/06 3:06pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
- Date Edited:
10/5/06 3:07pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
severian28
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Just saw The Departed and it was good. For those who dont know, Scorsese is basically the God of modern Hong Kong cinema and he pays back that homage by remaking Andy Maks' Infernal Affairs. And he doesnt disappoint. Damon and DiCaprio give basically one dimensional performances, but very, very good ones ( there really isnt that much that seperates a crook from a criminal ). Nicholsen is as cool as you would expect but still he's basically just being himself. DeNiro shouldve played this part. Wahlberg gives the best performance in the film as a jerk-off cop. Its not even one of Scorseses' very good films but its as entertaining as any of his films.
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" Bring the sled " - Al Swearengen
" Dying all the time. Lose your dreams and you will lose your mind. Aint life unkind? " - The Rolling Stones
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StarDude
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/7/06 2:46am
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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DeNiro shouldn't have played this part anymore than he should have played Bill the Butcher in Gangs of New York. For one, DeNiro couldn't pass as Irish. Also, using Daniel Day-Lewis as an example, it takes away from the shock value. Daniel Day-Lewis playing that role was mind-blowing casting, and it got him a nice Oscar nomination.
That said, in The Departed, I would've preferred Bill Murray in the role instead of Nicholson. The actor who plays the role in Infernal Affairs was generally considered more of a comedic actor before that. Bill Murray in the role would be far more interesting than DeNiro or Nicholson. DeNiro, like Nicholson, would just be playing a role he's done before.
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It's not who I am underneath, but what I do
that defines me.
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severian28
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
10/7/06 2:48am
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
- Date Edited:
10/7/06 2:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
severian28
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I dont think DeNiro shouldve played Bill the Butcher at all but he wouldve absolutely kicked ass as Costello. Nicholsen is great in the film but still goes way too over the top in some parts.
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" Dying all the time. Lose your dreams and you will lose your mind. Aint life unkind? " - The Rolling Stones
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StarDude
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/7/06 2:53am
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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I agree. But I don't think DeNiro would be much better. The casting of this role was a great opportunity to cause some intrigue. DeNiro wouldn't be interesting at all in this role. Again, Bill Murray. Or even someone like Harrison Ford would have been interesting.
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
10/18/06 4:12pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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I rather like the idea of Ford as a villian.
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JohnWesleyDowney
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
10/21/06 7:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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I rather like the idea of Ford as a villian.
Now that's a very appealing idea. His natural disposition
seems to be kind of grumpy, and I'm sure he could use that
in a villainous role somehow. Also, he briefly played a
villainized version of Indiana Jones in Temple of Doom,
and he seemed to like it. Might give his career a whole
new spin.
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Have you heard about the new book about the Dumbest Generation? http://dumbestgeneration.com/
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/2/06 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: The Films Of Martin Scorsese
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And it needs it. He's bit beyond ze action hero at the moment.
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