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Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: "Paths of Glory" is due to start on TCM
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/12/07 7:45pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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It isn't that it's about a psychotic; it's the fact that it revels in it. I don't mind rape on film, really, for a point. I rather dislike it for titillation and by the time you get to the lingering shots of the nude actress in the prison sequence, you get the feeling that Kubrick's pandering.
A great novel, and a great lead performance by McDowell, but I'm damned if I can care. The novel was gutwrenching; by contrast, the film is pretty darn dull, for an anti-social, misogynist tract about morality. Only Kubrick, I think, could make a film this dull about subjects this inflammatory.
Everything's at a remove; there are moments, like the street brawl, for instance, where Kubrick shoots things like they're a ballet. Fine aesthetic decision, but it removes the horror of the violence. Even the rape scene goes on so long, you just get tired of it. Not disgusted, just vaguely insulted that Kubrick thinks you're still interested in the female breast after it's been so mistreated in front of you.
I recall my first time watching it, not really looking for anything, just watching it for the first time. In about the first forty-five minutes we get, lingeringly, something like six phallic symbols (the cane, the knife, the popsicles, the murder weapon, the nose on the mask and . . . I'm forgetting one . . . oh, well). That's about par for the course for the movie; no subtlty here. Why make a point lightly when you can sledgehammer it into the audiences' eye sockets.
By the time the cat lady (oh, God . . .) gets her brains bashed in with a giant penis, I rather felt as if I'd had the same experience.
It's as this point that the boredom really takes over; in 2001, emotional distance is the point. But it shouldn't be here, not in a film about the morality of penal systems. But it is; it's just . . . dull.
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JohnWesleyDowney
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
3/12/07 10:56pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
- Date Edited:
3/12/07 10:57pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
JohnWesleyDowney
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I recall my first time watching it, not really looking for anything, just watching it for the first time. In about the first forty-five minutes we get, lingeringly, something like six phallic symbols (the cane, the knife, the popsicles, the murder weapon, the nose on the mask and . . . I'm forgetting one . . . oh, well).
You forgot Basil, the pet snake. 
I'm always batting clean up around here, 
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How many movies do you think Industrial Light and Magic has worked on? WRONG. http://www.ilm.com/ilm_services.html "Films fulfill an unconscious spiritual desire that human beings have to share a common memory." - Martin Scorcese
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Erk
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
3/13/07 10:54am
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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It was in in ACO and 2001 that kubrick perfected his style of the "emotionless" observer. An observer with no other ability than to just observe wouldn't see the difference between a fight and a danceshow. Anyways I'm leaving those silly "matrix philosophical" evaluations for now. The light, composition, editing, musicediting, actingdirections were perfect in both films, what makes ACO much better is that it is an adaption of one of the most interesting SF novels of the 60s, while 2001 was based on a work by a overrated super-boring hard-sf author.
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"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place." Mick Travis, If.... Blast. They've removed my icon.  U S A ! U S A ! U S A !
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/15/07 7:50pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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Yes! The snake! Thank you! Can't believe I forgot that one! Perhaps the most obvious of them all!
Well, except for the popsicle . . . 
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I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
Without having ever felt sorry for itself.
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JohnWesleyDowney
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
3/15/07 10:27pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
- Date Edited:
3/15/07 10:55pm (5 edits total)
Edited By:
JohnWesleyDowney
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I think the stylized violence throws people off of what Kubrick is trying to say through Burgess's novel. That is simply this: if a man is no longer able to choose between good and evil, he ceases to be a man. And no one, not even the government, should be able to, through scientific means, should take that choice away. It defines freedom, and it defines who we are.
I read an analysis of the film long ago, and it made the point that in Jewish philosophy, there is a saying that the one power that God does not have is the ability to make human beings choose "good." That is the responsibility of the individual, of being human. That idea is at the core of the film. No one should be able to take that choice away, especially not an authoritarian state. I would argue for putting a criminal such as Alex to death for their crimes, as opposed to giving them what amounts to a moral lobotomy, as represented by the Ludovico treatment shown in the film. But evil has a charisma and magnetism all it's own, and it drowns out the theme that Kubrick is trying to present. He's too damn good for his own good.
On a purely cinematic level, it's one of Kubrick's best. The lighting, compositions, editing, art direction, all are absolutely superb. Masterful craftmanship.
And it contains perhaps my favorite, funniest scene in a Kubrick film. Alex's afternoon romp with the two teenage girls in his bedroom, viewed at high speed and accompanied by a very fast version of the William Tell Overture. That's genius. Directors are always struggling with sex scenes...how do you shoot them in a way that hasn't been done before?
That was certainly an original solution to the problem. 
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How many movies do you think Industrial Light and Magic has worked on? WRONG. http://www.ilm.com/ilm_services.html "Films fulfill an unconscious spiritual desire that human beings have to share a common memory." - Martin Scorcese
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/16/07 9:37pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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And of course the point of Burgess' book was that people simply change, utterly regardless of things like government intervention. It's what makes the book, for all its bleakness, ultimately hopeful. Kubrick's film is directly opposed; people don't change. Thus, the government's efforts take on a decidedly tragic air: they're necessary, but unethical.
In Burgess' view, they're both unethical and unnecessary . . . which is a deeply disturbing perspective, but more humanistic than Kubrick. But then no one ever called Kubrick a great humanist.
I love the book; read it several times and always seem to see new genius in it. Kubrick's film wants to go the extra mile with things like nudity, but it can't stomach making Alex as young as he really needs to be for the story to have impact.
Once again, it's an odd balance the film strikes; utterly mean spirited and misogynistic and intellectually unsettling and yet at the same time, utterly emotionally empty and dull.
Darned if I really know how he did it; it should be noted that I've watched the film three times, desperately trying to find in it the genius others see. I can't get it. Oh, well. Back to the book.
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I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
Without having ever felt sorry for itself.
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Sith-Lord-Gunray
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
3/17/07 4:21pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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I saw the film before I read the book. Film is absolutely brilliant. One of my favourites. Maybe it's just my sick sense of humour coming out, or else there really is something to it. Most people I know can't stand it. The book I'm still working on, I can't seem to stick with it.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
3/20/07 9:42am
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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on idly reading through an aronofsky interview about pi i found this:
Q: In that aspect [about computers becoming conscious and a mathematician searching for a miracle order in the universe], it reminded me of 2001: a Space Odyssey.
A: Kubrick's science fiction is always about the psychological. There's serious stuff in that movie. All the effects are inspired by ideas, as is the case with A Clockwork Orange. In fact, A Clockwork Orange had a huge inspiration on Pi in that I was fed up with all the films that had been coming out that weren't really edgy. In the theaters this past summer, there were no films that had any sort of style or direction—that were cool, hip and different than other films. Growing up, I always wanted to see A Clockwork Orange. I've seen it at least ten times in the movie theater because it's so riveting. I want to aspire to those heights.
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illegalise stupidity.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
3/20/07 1:42pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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I don't think Kubrick actually 'got' the book; but then, he's notorious for injecting nihilism into projects that aren't nihilistic in conception.
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Mustafar_66
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
3/20/07 3:28pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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I love A Clockwork Orange, mainly for it's sheer hilarity (that guys dawning realisation that the guy who raped his wife is scrubbing down in his bath for example). Sure, it's gratuitous, but it's a superbly made film and it certainly conveys its message well enough.
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Why no, I won't get in your car. You can pass me the candy through the window. Pink Floyd are the Greatest! Proud Jacen, NJO and LOTF fan. One of few.    
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/23/07 7:36pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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Zaz posted:
I don't think Kubrick actually 'got' the book; but then, he's notorious for injecting nihilism into projects that aren't nihilistic in conception.
I would agree with that statement; the book is about free will, the film about the removal of it. That may seem a minor distinction, but I think it makes all the difference in the world as far as emotional impact.
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I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
Without having ever felt sorry for itself.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 6:08am
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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the thing about
BARRY LYNDON 1975
is that it's really good example for how obsessive kubrick could be as a photographer.
they used it in a film class i took at uni to show the amount of composition that went into single frames, the way he produced veritable paintings or tableaux anyway. all lightning is natural, i think, meaning that for a novel set in, what?, 18th century or something, indoor night scenes are lit with candles. there is probably more to that, that i didn't pick up when viewing it entirely, most of which you can read at its imdb entry.
the fact of the matter is that i found it hellishly boring and completely irrelevant.
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illegalise stupidity.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 7:01am
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)
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Proof positive you can be obsessive and spent lots of money and still bore ze audiene blind.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 7:20am
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "Barry Lyndon" (1974)
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how come imdb puts it at 1975 and you at 1974?
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
4/28/07 10:44pm
Subject:
RE: Dr Kubrick: Or How I Learned To Direct Cult Cinema: Now Disc: "Barry Lyndon" (1974)
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Moi?
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