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Topic:
Modern Classics of World Literature (currently disc. "The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck)
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/12/06 1:04pm
Subject:
Modern Classics of World Literature (currently disc. "The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck)
- Date Edited:
6/12 4:14pm (32 edits total)
Edited By:
Zaz
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Decided to seperate the ancient and modern classics ('modern' here being defined as anything not ancient  ).
1984 by George Orwell.
Set in an alternate-universe London, 1984 is a story about power, control, rebellion, and human emotions.
The Party, a totalitarian regimre controls Oceania (Britain, the Amerricas, and Austrailia), where Winston Smith, the novel's protagonist, lives. Winston works in the Ministry of Truth, where he and hundreds of others go back through old newspapers and magazines, changing what they say to fit with whatever doctorine the Party is spewing now. Winston and his fellow citizens live in squalid conditions, constantly monitored by telescreens, and are in constant fear of being picked up by the Thought Police and vaporized.
The book is also a love story, though not in the conventional sense. Winston starts an affair with Julia, a "rebel from the waist down" who hates the Party and all it stands for. However, their relationship is mostly sexual, as close as they feel to each other. Orwell uses their relationship to explore the idea that fear, not pleasure, is the most powerful motivator, and that above all, humans want to be truely understood.
We just discussed this book in my Lit class, so I could go on but I'd like to see what the rest of you think, especally regarding the totalitarion society of 1984 (especally Big Brother, a symbol that had gone beyond the novel and ingrained itself in popular culture, even for those who haven't read the book) and mind control (2+2=5).
Previous Topics:
1984
Dubliners
The Great Gatsby
Pride and Prejudice
Brave New World
Oliver Twist
The Count of Monte Cristo
Black Beauty
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Return of the Native
Jane Eyre
Wuthering Heights
Agnes Grey
The Three Musketeers
Great Expectations
Peter Pan
Little Women
Animal Farm
The Wizard of Oz
Tess of the d'Urbervilles
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Alice in Wonderland
The Handmaid's Tale
Their Eyes Were Watching God
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
11/12/06 6:55pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Obviously a very important book, and i think it's one of the most important books ever written. it's a timeless warning about human nature.
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General Kenobi
Title: Comms Admin
SW & Film Music
Classic Trilogy
Registered:
Dec '98
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Date Posted:
11/12/06 7:14pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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What a great read. This is certainly the best 20th Century novel that I have read. Maybe the best I've ever read.
The dystopian themes have ingrained themselves into our culture so that we are frequently vigilant for "Big Brother". Sometimes, I think, not vigilant enough. It gets a bit unnerving at times to feel tiny bits of 1984 coming close to reality.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
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Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/13/06 1:43pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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General Kenobi posted:
It gets a bit unnerving at times to feel tiny bits of 1984 coming close to reality.
I agree. You can see it a lot in the way that leaders of many countries use 'orwellian' language--that is, twisting the words so that what they really mean and what they want you to think they mean are totally different.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/13/06 1:47pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Orwell was a brilliant writer...
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
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Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/13/06 1:52pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Oh, most certainly. He does an amazing job highlighting the warnings of totalitarian societies at the same time as exploring the fundamentals of human nature. Plus, they're fun books
What always creeped me out a little about 1984 was the end of they nursrey rhyme:
"Here comes a candle to light you to bed, here comes a chopper to chop off your head." Gives me the shivers. And the first time I read it, at the climax at the end of second two when the Thought Police come bursting into the room above Charrington's shop where Winston and Juila are ("You are the dead.") I almost started screaming I was so freaked out. It's really easy to lose yourself in the novel.
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Sauntaero
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
11/13/06 3:01pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Yes, it is easy to lose yourself in the world of 1984. (as we can see from your sig!)
This is one of my favorite books ever. Maybe because it's frightening to think that so many of our ideals can be false, irrelevant, just a front when it comes down to it. To think that human nature can be that cruel to others--(I think the John Hurt/Richard Burton movie does this real well also). That the future could be that bleak, apathetic--rationing, eternal useless warfare, not to mention continuous overhauls of history by the government, everything quantified and nothing worth sharing with another human being .... hopeless. And it does leave hopeless, knowing very well that our society could become like that. Thank goodness, twenty-two years later it still hasn't! 
(at least I hope so)
I hope everyone got as much out of this book as I did, it does alter your perception of life. All Orwell's other books are nothing compared to 1984.
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KnightWriter
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Nov '01
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Date Posted:
11/13/06 3:39pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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All Orwell's other books are nothing compared to 1984.
i strongly disagree.
animal farm is a worthy companion to it.
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Zombi_2_1979
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/14/06 5:37pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Just finished reading this novel and what a masterpiece, the Police barging after that most sinister announcement over the telescreen hidden behind the picture in Mr Charrington's rented bedroom is exceptionally thrilling and I also love the part where Winston is forced during a latter part of his imprisonment to look upon himself in the mirror.
I do have "Animal Farm" sitting in my TBR pile.
Most people I have spoken to prefer Huxley's "Brave New World", but once that book shifts protagonists over to John Savage and his mother Linda there is something deeply lost and the fact I loved Bernard Marx. The book turns into a philosophical and theological circus IMO. Anyways I am way off base here.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/15/06 12:42pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Still reading it, but so far it is brilliant.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
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Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/15/06 2:00pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Sauntaero posted:
Yes, it is easy to lose yourself in the world of 1984. (as we can see from your sig!)
This is one of my favorite books ever. Maybe because it's frightening to think that so many of our ideals can be false, irrelevant, just a front when it comes down to it. To think that human nature can be that cruel to others--(I think the John Hurt/Richard Burton movie does this real well also). That the future could be that bleak, apathetic--rationing, eternal useless warfare, not to mention continuous overhauls of history by the government, everything quantified and nothing worth sharing with another human being .... hopeless. And it does leave hopeless, knowing very well that our society could become like that. Thank goodness, twenty-two years later it still hasn't!
(at least I hope so)
I hope everyone got as much out of this book as I did, it does alter your perception of life. All Orwell's other books are nothing compared to 1984.
Exactly!! And so chilling that at the end (which, by literary standards, is an unhappy ending) Winston is blissfully happy. The last line about him loving Big Brother (covering for Zaz's benefit  ) gives me the creeps. It's a good warning about what could happen--and when Orwell wrote it (1948, I believe, and it was published in 1949) was right after the fall of two totalitarian societies (Hitler and Mussolini) with Stalin still in the USSR, it was really prevelent at that time.
Animal Farm I really enjoyed as a good, even without analyzing it or looking for intentions. Reading it while studying Communism and the USSR was an added bonus.
I'm trying to get my hands on Huxley's Brave New World (especally since my book club is reading it right now) but from what I've heard, it's very easy to discuss it and 1984 together. The former discusses fear as being the most motivating factor for humans, while BNW talks about pleasure being that factor.
I watched the Richard Burton movie in class, and it was really weird. I didn't like it at all. If I hadn't read the novel, I wouldn't at all have known what was going on. Part of that is because much of the book is based on Winston's thoughts and emotions, and that's hard to transfer into a movie, but I didn't think it was very well done at all.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/16/06 12:33pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Still only part way through, but Orwell's portrayal of the effects of totalitarianism is chilling. The "Hate" episode reminded me of splatter films. The landlady's children are typical of Soviet children, who were encouraged by their schools to spy on their parents.
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KnightWriter
Title:
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Date Posted:
11/16/06 12:52pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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1984 is the only book i've ever read that felt nightmarish in a very real way.
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ShrunkenJedi
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
11/16/06 2:19pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Ah, 1984. I have a special place in my heart for this book, it being my birth year, as well as my being an all-out Important SF fangirl 
Definitely chilling... I had to put down the book a few times while I was reading it, it was so intense. And I can handle a lot.
About the Soviet angle... A few years ago I had a class on 'science fiction and dissent', in which we read a Russian/Soviet novel called We by Yevgeny Zamiatin, which was a lot like 1984 in its theme (future totalitarian society, very controlled, protagonist learns love and eventually individualism). Any of you read it? Can't remember whether it would've been published before or after 1984... anyway, your thoughts about it being a bit like communism brought to mind this novel which would pretty clearly be dissent against the totalitarian aspect of that society...
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Zombi_2_1979
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/16/06 4:59pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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KnightWriter posted:
1984 is the only book i've ever read that felt nightmarish in a very real way.
Most chilling and disconcerting, oppression through fear, thought control, and frightening ostracism. A common dilemna in the world already i.e. the Taliban, etc. There isn't a more scarier work of science fiction written.
Not even "Brave New World" because it is more quirkier and offkiltered to be completely plausible.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
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Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/17/06 5:53pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Orwell was a committed socialist, and a good many of his friends and colleagues hated "1984", and considered him a renegade.
It was common in the 30's and 40's for socialists and Marxists to go the USSR for visits and praise the hell out of it, blind to all the things going on behind the scenes. But Orwell knew better. In this book, and "Animal Farm", he captures the real face of totalitarism.
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