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Topic:
Modern Classics of World Literature (currently disc. "The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck)
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/06 4:54am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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at one stage, though, people who were now part of the citadel of power decided to keep it that way. in 1984 of course it's all deteriorated to the point of no return and the system overtakes but i would like to reread and see how orwell handles the people's responsibility there (i don't think he does terribly well).
i've read one more of his books, about local businesses being crushed by corporations (much like walmart). can't remember the title of now.
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Mariu
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
11/22/06 8:02pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
- Date Edited:
11/22/06 8:03pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mariu
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Those of you who love stories about dystopia should also read (or perhaps have already done so) the Russia novelist Zamyatin's We, which is written before the Stalinist purges and which has a more science-fiction feel than 1984. Orwell has reviewed book and was even accused of lifting his materials from Zamyatin. At any rate, Zamyatin's novel makes an interesting comparison of such storeis written before as opposed to after totalitarianism has run its full cours.e
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"You can't be a mother and an artist at the same time. Choose!" --Dame Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, to a fellow artist
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Zombi_2_1979
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/06 11:06pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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We by Yevgeny Zamyatin
1984 by George Orwell.
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Zombi_2_1979
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/23/06 10:58am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Some words and phrases Orwell coined in "1984" have become standard even popular vocabulary since then such as "Big Brother", "thought police", "memory hole", "Room 101", "doublethink", and "newspeak".
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Mariu
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
11/23/06 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Zombi_2_1979 posted:
Some words and phrases Orwell coined in "1984" have become standard even popular vocabulary since then such as "Big Brother", "thought police", "memory hole", "Room 101", "doublethink", and "newspeak".
...and also have been constantly misused by warriors on each side of the ideological divide (in America, especially) in mud-slinging.
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ShrunkenJedi
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
11/23/06 6:47pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Yes, yes Mariu and Zombie, I've read both 1984 and We... in fact I think I mentioned that earlier  They do have some remarkable similarities. There are some things I really like specifically about We-- the mathematical symbolism, for one. And there are some things I like specifically about 1984 that aren't present in We-- doublethink, Big Brother, newspeak... and for some reason I have the impression that 1984 was more chilling. There were several points when I really had to put the book down. Good stuff, though, but intense.
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Zombi_2_1979
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/24/06 10:03pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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I bought Penguin Classics version of Zamyatin's "We" a noted publisher with a nice repute plus the back cover claims a brilliant translation by Clarence Brown based on the corrected text of the novel.
And the work served as an inspiration for "1984" too.
Including the etext for Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.
Another incredible prescient work of science fiction that may follow in this discussion in the future.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/25/06 8:14am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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I hadn't read "We" but it sounds like it's worth reading.
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Zombi_2_1979
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/25/06 5:57pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Visiting these two other classics over the course of this discussion has my personal vote. 
The Penguin Classics strives for a more word-for-word literal translation. But, Modern Library's volume translated by Natasha Randall, is a more modernized, contemporary prose. Definitely adds something to the text and one may prefer to the Penguin Classics version. Personally I don't mind either but I don't want to depart too much from the author's original deliverance.
(Which I've learned a thing or two about Dostoevsky's translations that have left me abit defeated.)
Excerpt from the Modern Library version which is close to if not the precise one in the above etext posted.
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Mariu
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
11/25/06 6:16pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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ShrunkenJedi posted:
Yes, yes Mariu and Zombie, I've read both 1984 and We... in fact I think I mentioned that earlier They do have some remarkable similarities. There are some things I really like specifically about We-- the mathematical symbolism, for one. And there are some things I like specifically about 1984 that aren't present in We-- doublethink, Big Brother, newspeak... and for some reason I have the impression that 1984 was more chilling. There were several points when I really had to put the book down. Good stuff, though, but intense.
We can think of We and 1984 as how totalitarinism begins and ends: first in rational control then in randomn terror after failing to find any rationale for controlling everyone's life. We is kind of like a parody of utopian theories when fleshed out into human existence, and you can always refuse to believe it somewhere in the back of your mind. In 1984, things are simply more real--people even have names--and you wonder how that is possible after they have in reality been reduced to a cipher vis-a-vis the state.
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"You can't be a mother and an artist at the same time. Choose!" --Dame Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, to a fellow artist
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/26/06 10:24am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing 1984)
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Discussing both of those is a must But after we have a bit of a break from dystopias (and afetr I finish struggling through Brave New World ).
Since 1984 discussion seems to have died down a bit, our next book is Dubliners by James Joyce.
Dubliners is a collection of short stories written in the modernist style about the lives of several people who live in Dublin, Ireland. The first three are about young boys, and then the protagonist of each story gets older as the book goes along. The last story, "The Dead," has been made into a short movie with Anjelica Houston.
Joyce makes a big use of the Church in each of the stories. Every one has a priest, or a discussion of the pope, or characters going to Mass. In each story, Joyce has the Church (or symbols that represent the Chruch) in decline or dying. As the book is based on the author's own experiences, one of them being the disillusionment he has toward the Church.
Joyce also uses huge stereotypes, such as alcohol in just about every story and a couple protagonists getting drunk and abusing their children. The novel, which is supposed to be based on Joyce's life, also represents his struggle with his home. (And as an interesting note, one of the stories, A Painful Case, is said to have happened to his brother).
I don't particularly care for the book, but it's quickly becoming a modern classic. Has anyone else read it? If you have, what did you think? Like or dislike?
Also, does anyone have a favorite story in the book? A least favorite? What do you think was the turning point of the novel and why?
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/26/06 1:29pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Dubliners)
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I haven't read this one, but as I have four Irish grandparents, I'll break it to you: like a lot of stereotypes, the Irish one has a lot of truth to it. The Irish like to drink and they like to talk.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/27/06 1:23pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Dubliners)
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All streotypes have some basis in truth--and some have a lot of basis in truth. Joyce makes use of them, the drinking one especally. Even though it's not prominant in every story, alcohol is at least mentioned in most of them.
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"Not till the moon falls. Not till the world ends."
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
11/27/06 3:58pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Dubliners)
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And nearly all Irish literature, right up to "Angela's Ashes" is rife with anti-clericism. They used to show a BBC show (I think) with an Irish comic (whose name I forget). But I do remember how many jokes were concerned with religion. Like 75 per cent.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
12/4/06 3:00pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Dubliners)
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Looks like I'm not the only one who didn't like Joyce
The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
Gatsby is a story told by a young man, Nick, who moves to New York and whose life is changed by the fabulously wealthy Jay Gatsby.
Gatsby is pining after Nick's married cousin, Daisy, around whom he has built his entire life. Using Nick, he manages to start an affair with her. However, Daisy is easily influenced, and her husband, Tom (who is also having an affair) is unwilling to give her to Gatsby without a fight.
The book follows the characters from the beginning to the end of this affair, and gives a good look into the superficial culture of the 1920s in America. It may not be the greatest book ever written, and it's merits might not be easily evident (I had to read it twice to start to appreciate it) but nevertheless it explores very well love and lust, possession and the desire for what if out of reach.
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